tegan

I Had a Random Thought (About Video Games)

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I have no idea where buttons are on any controller I've ever used, my brain doesn't work like that. I know what buttons do, and where to put my thumb/finger to use them.

For this reason I suck at QTEs. I always have to look down at the controller to know which button to press, however, if it said something like "PRESS CANCEL" I'd immediately hit the B button on a Nintendo console or the O button on a Sony console without even thinking about it. 

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I remember PS and Xbox ones...  N64 had those 4 c buttons?  Nintendo had just 2?  Neo Zeo came with a stick but nothing else remains in my memory

 

And third party like Logitech does whatever so :x

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I have no idea where buttons are on any controller I've ever used, my brain doesn't work like that. I know what buttons do, and where to put my thumb/finger to use them.

For this reason I suck at QTEs. I always have to look down at the controller to know which button to press, however, if it said something like "PRESS CANCEL" I'd immediately hit the B button on a Nintendo console or the O button on a Sony console without even thinking about it. 

 

This is why natural mapping is important.

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It's handy in a QTE where the position of the onscreen prompt corresponds with the position of that button on the controller

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If I'm using a controller I haven't used for a while I'll forget for a bit but it usually comes back to me pretty fast.  Actually the thing I have the worst time with is the keyboard.  I can type just fine but that hinges on my ability to place my fingers on the home row to utilize my muscle memory.  When I shift to something like WASD it throws everything off and I end up looking down at the keys a lot more than I should.  I probably have more time using a keyboard (in both normal and WASD configurations) than I do controllers and yet it's still worse for me.

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How do you have natural mapping on a controller? Other than triggers for triggers, it's all arbitrary. 

 

The GameCube controller came as close as I think anyone will to natural mapping on a controller: a big central green button for important tasks, a small red button off to the side, and kidney buttons to the top and right which felt different to the finger for secondary tasks.

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That's interesting because I always expect most important button to be on bottom (nearest to the thumb), but I have been thoroughly influenced by more 'traditional' controller setup where that is the case BUT I don't want to dismiss that as just that because that is the most comfortable button for me to press.

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What Merus said, but also thinks like B being cancel in many cases is a kind of mapping. Your brain has learned that cancel is in that spot as well as "cancel-like" actions.

 

A good QTE will establish useful mappable conventions, rather than spewing arbitrary button presses that have no real connection to anything. ie. Dodge might consistently be a certain button/s, then a block might be another, while running is some analog input.

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I think that B button being used as cancel is counter-intuitive, in terms of its positioning on the GC pad. For me, cancel was always the button on the right hand side (B on XBOX, A on SNES pad etc.) I believe in Japan that the button on the bottom is usually cancel, and the button on the right is accept?

 

However it does make sense that it's cancel in the context of that controller because it's both the "opposite" colour to the big green A, and so much smaller. Green is usually a positive colour, let's do it, whereas red means stop, go back. You can see this also in the colouring on the xbox buttons. The playstation pad mixes things up a little, but still keeps the red button as the one to go back.

 

Edit: God of War had quite clever QTEs. IIRC, they had the on-screen prompts correspond to the positions of the buttons on the pad, and the PCs actions would correspond to what those inputs did during normal gameplay.

 

Eurgh, does any of that make any sense? I'm quite hungover.

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God of War did have good QTE's. They also made you do horrible things. I remember teenaged me feeling quite satisfied in what ultraviolence pressing both thumb sticks down enabled me to do to poor Poseidon in GoW III.

I think another element about the QTEs in that series that should be used more in QTE games is that they actually added to the feeling of dynamic motion in those cutscenes. Like you'd press a series and end up swinging around a great hydra and each new leap you took was in the direction of the button you pressed; or you'd fall down for a K.O. Etc..

It's one of the few series where it felt like they added something to the game.

Just another thing about QTEs, I do enjoy it when more power corresponding actions have some sort of windup and I hate most instances of button mashing of it doesn't make sense. Like say Fear 2 you have to wrestle over a shotgun at one point, rather than mash A to win it'd be more interesting if you had to alternate or wriggle something to show both people are struggling.

I think with controllers I have most of the mapping down. Only if it's for an Xbox or PS but I've gotten used to using the ps3 controller my pc thinks is a 360 controller. Using circle to accept and square to shoot being normal for westerners might just be one of those weird metal gear conventions; at least that's my only experience of it.

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But in Japan the red O on the Playstation pad is historically the 'accept' button and X is cancel. The Xbox 'green for go, red for no' makes sense to me - although it's not 'natural' mapping, the significance of red/green has been thoroughly assimilated from childhood. Dreamcast button colours seem to have been chosen completely at random.

I find this whole subject fascinating. The pad shape and position of the right stick can change which button the right thumb falls on most naturally. I find playing Super Mario Bros on a DS harder because my hand is generally at the wrong angle to comfortably hold on B to run and jump when needed. It's easier on a NES pad where your thumb is pretty much perpendicular on the pad. Which must be why the newer games map jump to B/A and run to Y/X (by default). What's the original jump/run assignment of Mario World on the SNES?

I've just started working on an infographic that charts the evolution of the major pads since the NES. I'll post it whenever I finish.

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Mario World had Y as run, B as jump and A as spin jump. I think there was another button you could hold to run but I can't remember what it was.

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The gamecube pad was pretty good. I also really liked how Melee used the buttons. They all made sense, both in menus and in combat.

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The gamecube pad was pretty good. I also really liked how Melee used the buttons. They all made sense, both in menus and in combat.

 

I hated the gamecube controller so much, It was a little better than the N64 controller, but they made so many odd design decisions. The size and shape disparity in buttons and that yellow joystick without the mushroom top were so annoying.

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But in Japan the red O on the Playstation pad is historically the 'accept' button and X is cancel. The Xbox 'green for go, red for no' makes sense to me - although it's not 'natural' mapping, the significance of red/green has been thoroughly assimilated from childhood. Dreamcast button colours seem to have been chosen completely at random.

I find this whole subject fascinating. The pad shape and position of the right stick can change which button the right thumb falls on most naturally. I find playing Super Mario Bros on a DS harder because my hand is generally at the wrong angle to comfortably hold on B to run and jump when needed. It's easier on a NES pad where your thumb is pretty much perpendicular on the pad. Which must be why the newer games map jump to B/A and run to Y/X (by default). What's the original jump/run assignment of Mario World on the SNES?

I've just started working on an infographic that charts the evolution of the major pads since the NES. I'll post it whenever I finish.

 

my wife has always been leary of games due to the controller - she likes the wii-mote  due to the simplicity 1/2 with D-Pad (re: NES)

 

But recently has been trying to use the PS controller for netflix functionality.  The arbitrary X/O/Triangle/Square buttons didnt make any sense until i said it as X-> Execute, O-> Out and finally clicking.  

 

I dont think we'll be playing Lovers in a Dangerous Space anytime soon, but at least the basic menu navigation is less intimidating

 

 

Regarding SMW - Y was run, B Jump, A was the spin jump, X may have been spin jump as well

*Edit - trip beat me to it

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I hated the gamecube controller so much, It was a little better than the N64 controller, but they made so many odd design decisions. The size and shape disparity in buttons and that yellow joystick without the mushroom top were so annoying.

 

I liked the size and shape disparity of the buttons. I don't know how a quartet of buttons with identical size and texture, set in a symmetrical diamond, became the industry standard, but it's a UX disaster.

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I think I've finally landed on a conclusion about Civilization V. I don't like it. It's kinda boring. I've played it for about 50 hours, and it just doesn't give me what I thought it would.

 

I wanted political intrigue and masterful warmongering. It has neither. The interactions with other civilizations are shallow and the combat is dull. I know I'd like Crusader Kings II a lot, but I can't get the hang of it. It's just so freaking complicated.

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I wanted political intrigue and masterful warmongering. It has neither. The interactions with other civilizations are shallow and the combat is dull. I know I'd like Crusader Kings II a lot, but I can't get the hang of it. It's just so freaking complicated.

I have made this offer countless times, I know it'll never be accepted, but for you or anyone else, I am totally willing to play a two-person multiplayer game of CK2 and walk through the best ways to play via Steam's voice chat.

It seems silly, but doing that would combine medieval history, video games, and teaching, three of my huge passions, so...

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I've never seen you say that (probably because I've never been in the CK2 thread). I have the same questions as Gaizo. I would love to know how to play that game. 

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Edit: also how many DLCs do I need?

 

For the best experience of the game, which I consider to be playing a Christian feudal lord at the 1066 start, you only need three DLCs at most: Sons of AbrahamWay of Life, and maybe Legacy of Rome. Every other DLC only adds the ability to play a different religion or a different nationality (with the exception of viceroyalties with Charlemagne and custom kingdoms with the "Ruler Designer" DLC), but the game's focus is always strongest when on Latin Christendom.

 

What times would be good for you Gorm?

I've never seen you say that (probably because I've never been in the CK2 thread). I have the same questions as Gaizo. I would love to know how to play that game. 

 

Uh, it varies these days, courtesy of my dissertation. I'm busy this weekend, mostly, but I'm available most weeknights between 6 pm and 2 am CST, not to mention other times if you let me know in advance. My Steam username is "Gormongous," feel free to friend me there and communicate.

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I also have a curious desire about ck2, I found it impenetrable on my first go

and am also awake at weird hours with my newborn, if its OK with both parties I'd like to steam stream watch

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