Offworld, an economic RTS from Soren Johnson

[clyde]

I'm listening to the Gamers With Jobs podcast right now. I'm looking forward to playing the final release. Congratulations!

[Dewar]

Updated to the newest, played through all the tutorials and all but the last practice games. No issues seen, and I'm really impressed at how far the tutorials have come since I played last.

[clyde]

The frame-rate of the opening sequence is noticeably low. I'm guessing 15-20fps. I have a i5-760 and a GTX970 and 8gb of RAM. It doesn't really bother me, but I figured I'd say something since you asked. The actual game runs fine. Also I did not follow the above instructions. I'm assuming that I'm playing the final release at the moment.

The soundtrack is great by the way.

[Dewar]

Looks like Arumba is doing some sponsored videos. 

 

 

His older early access multiplayer videos are worth a watch as well

[sclpls]

Updated to the newest, played through all the tutorials and all but the last practice games. No issues seen, and I'm really impressed at how far the tutorials have come since I played last.

 

Yeah, same. I was definitely a whiny baby about them when I played the initial EA release. When I checked the game out a month ago I thought the difference was night & day. I'm glad Soren ignored the calls from the likes of Tom Chick and others to just release the game because I think even if the game ideas were all there all that extra polish should really help make the game more approachable for people that don't immediately grasp how to play the game (or have someone show them how to play the game).

[tberton]

Yeah, same. I was definitely a whiny baby about them when I played the initial EA release. When I checked the game out a month ago I thought the difference was night & day. I'm glad Soren ignored the calls from the likes of Tom Chick and others to just release the game because I think even if the game ideas were all there all that extra polish should really help make the game more approachable for people that don't immediately grasp how to play the game (or have someone show them how to play the game).

 

Agreed. Not only that, but there are countless small and large gameplay changes that have made the game so much better since Early Access. The stock system, neutral colony, advanced buildings and black market have all benefited a ton from the extra time.

[Dewar]

So I'm on the Next_Version branch, but this released today, right? So I can turn off the beta? But it still says version 0.9.9981?

[Soren Johnson]

Yes, you should switch to the regular version.

[clyde]

I'm really enjoying the campaign-mode. At first it seemed weird to be buying shares of the neutral colony, but now that I understand how it provides capital for later rounds it's kinda thrilling. I ran through the campaign as Maisie Song on Apprentice (at first as an expansionist and then as a scavenger) with no trouble at all; I didn't appreciate the wins. Now I'm playing on Employee as Reni-6 (robotic) and eking out a loss in the first round where we are nearly equal in shares at the end is really satisfying. I was frustrated that I didn't have diverse capabilities for manufactured goods, but that makes the win in the second round feel like a major buff for the rest of the game. I enjoy having to craft a long-term investment strategy based on hiring opportunities and available capital between rounds.

[Dewar]

Woof. For the life of me, I can't beat the top practice game. At one point I started pausing and checking each and every building, building the same ones they were, and still I fell behind. At least this last time i lasted more than 5 minutes, but I was still the first bought out (even though I had second to lowest stock price.)

 

Edit: Just tried to watch a replay and apparently everything it recorded tonight was recorded as the wrong version? I made sure to swtich off the beta and verify the cache.

[clyde]

For the record, I skipped the last two practice games.

[Dewar]

Are you playing online? I mean it says that's the difficulty of the game online, so if I can't beat it there I don't imagine I'd do well with any of the other game modes.

 

Edit: Yup, did just as bad online, lost ahead of even a guy who didn't join then AI took over 5 minutes in : (

[clyde]

I was mostly playing skirmishes in early access, but right now I'm just playing the single-player campaign.

The title-screen music is stuck in my head this morning.

[Gormongous]

Woof. For the life of me, I can't beat the top practice game. At one point I started pausing and checking each and every building, building the same ones they were, and still I fell behind. At least this last time i lasted more than 5 minutes, but I was still the first bought out (even though I had second to lowest stock price.)

For the record, I skipped the last two practice games.

 

It took me over two hours of repeated tries to beat the last practice game. The problem is mostly that, at lower skill levels, it's a puzzle that only seems to have one strong solution: go Robotic, because there's not enough water near the rich deposits of minerals to sustain the other factions; go hard into steel for the first couple of expansions and then pivot into solar collectors and computers; and try to buy claims and stocks early, before your competitors break the $30,000-per-stock mark. I really can't get more specific than that, because I got barely out-bought once and then, second try, beat the mission handily, so...

[tberton]

I just tried the practice game for the first time and while I lost, it was only because I was lazy and didn't buy my own stock. I've got a fair bit of experience in the game though and can see how it could be intimidating for a newcomer. I don't think I'd say Robotic is the only good choice though - given that the iron is far away from everything else (presuming that the map seed is the same, which I think it is for the practice games), founding near the middle of the map, closer to the water, silicon and aluminum so that the only thing you have to ship a long way is iron.

 

That said, there may be a couple beginner mistakes that might be making the game tougher for you. Number one, are you securing aluminum early? Every HQ type needs aluminum to upgrade (although Robotic needs less of it), so it's a huge bottleneck at the beginning of the game. You should usually try to get a high source of it at HQ Level 1. Number two, are you building your structures next to each other? Its essential to build structures (especially those that produce secondary resources) in pairs and triangles to get adjacency bonuses in order to maximize efficiency. If you don't do this, you'll fall behind quickly.

 

Finally, in direct response to Dewar's comment, building everything that your opponent is building is usually a bad idea. Think of it like playing rock-paper-scissors and always playing rock the turn after your opponent plays rock - they'll beat you every time. In Offworld, the first person into a resource will benefit most from its price - as they sell down to make money, the price will go down and anybody getting in afterwards will be getting a smaller profit. Ideally, you want to find high-value resources that your opponents haven't yet started producing and make those while the price is high, the switch to something else if the market is flooded. Now, sometimes the price of something will be high enough to justify everybody making a ton of it, but usually, you want to be making whatever your opponent isn't making.

[Gormongous]

I just tried the practice game for the first time and while I lost, it was only because I was lazy and didn't buy my own stock. I've got a fair bit of experience in the game though and can see how it could be intimidating for a newcomer. I don't think I'd say Robotic is the only good choice though - given that the iron is far away from everything else (presuming that the map seed is the same, which I think it is for the practice games), founding near the middle of the map, closer to the water, silicon and aluminum so that the only thing you have to ship a long way is iron.

 

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to pass it off as the solution, just that the skill ceiling felt so much higher on everything else except Robotic. Scientific especially felt like a poor choice, despite my love of how they play, because it's hard to get the clusters of diverse resources that make them really effective. Basically, I was not doing well as any faction except Robotic because water is so scarce on that map and you need a substantial minority of it for fuel, so founding near a cluster of iron on the dry ice, transitioning from steel early on into condenser-fueled computers, and having the only fuel costs be for solitary three-stack aluminum and silicon buildings felt like a really strong strategy for lower-skill beginners (and, even then, it took me five tries to beat it once I'd pieced together a winning strategy, because I'm a dumb baby).

 

Finally, in direct response to Dewar's comment, building everything that your opponent is building is usually a bad idea. Think of it like playing rock-paper-scissors and always playing rock the turn after your opponent plays rock - they'll beat you every time. In Offworld, the first person into a resource will benefit most from its price - as they sell down to make money, the price will go down and anybody getting in afterwards will be getting a smaller profit. Ideally, you want to find high-value resources that your opponents haven't yet started producing and make those while the price is high, the switch to something else if the market is flooded. Now, sometimes the price of something will be high enough to justify everybody making a ton of it, but usually, you want to be making whatever your opponent isn't making.

 

Since you say you're experienced, I'd really like your opinion: in every skirmish that I've played so far, oxygen has been the most valuable offworld product and offworld products don't seem affected by in-game events after the seed. Is this just a weird luck of the draw on my part? Because it makes electrolysis plants and solar condensers (if there's dry ice) really strong, even though they're already fairly strong (carbon can be rare and both computer and human players often run a fuel-negative game). I mean, maybe in a more competitive game you don't have the opportunity to make a trio of either of those buildings, so you aren't just pumping out oxygen like crazy, but it seems like a valuable commodity that only gets more valuable as the game progresses and doesn't have a multi-input production gating it, like computers, chemicals, or glass.

[tberton]

Food and Oxygen do tend to be the most valuable Offworld resources. After the inital seed, there is some semi-random upward pressure on the Offworld prices, but it's not affected by players, and I do believe that it's weighted toward the Life Support resources. So you're right that those resources tend to be very valuable in most games, especially if there are a lot of faction consuming life support as well. That said, Oxygen especially is tough to produce, as Electrolysis Reactors only make have as much of it as they do Fuel (they're working off of H2O, after all) and Solar Condensers only work during the day, so it can be tough to make money from it sometimes. And, if everybody's making Food and Oxygen, Water will get very expensive. Electronics and Chemicals have more inputs, but can have their price seriously offset with the Carbon Scrubbing patent, which lets them ignore their biggest input. Also, with people using Optimization Centres, Patent Labs and building Offworld Markets, the prices of those resources tend to spike in the late game. Glass will also get costlier as the game goes on, as people upgrade and build Farms and such. Again, though, a flooded market will sink all ships.

 

As for the Robotic strategy in that final practice game, that sounds like a good one! Robots are definitely the easiest faction to play as a beginner because they have so little debt to worry about. (In fact, one fun, but tough, strategy is the Power Robot - found in a pile of Silicon, build a couple Solar Panels and start making mad money on Power.) And you may be right that Robotic is the best choice for that map - faction choice is very, very dependent on the map, the factions the other players have chosen and the Black Market.

 

On that note, anybody looking to get some basic strategy tips should check out

. Zultar is the most prominent Offworld streamer and does a really good job of explaining the general strategies you should be using. Also, if anybody would like to play online, I'm Karzac on Steam and am always down for a game.

[graddy]

Tberton I hope I just friended you. There are a lot of Karzac on steam. I picked the one with 55 hours in offworld.

I just made it through the tutorial and am starting the first practice game but can already tell this game is rad. I'm going to take the time and actually learn this strategy game. I've been so slanted toward controller games on my PC lately. Good to get familiar with the most and keyboard again.

[Dewar]

To be clear, I meant that I studied the AI build order in one game, and applied it to the next, only to be outmaneuvered in that game and have the price of steel tank.

 

In general, I've found the price of Aluminum is never as high as water, sulfur, or carbon, so I rarely create an aluminum mine. The times that I do, the price seems to tank even further.

 

Yes, I'm making use of adjacency bonuses, and playing Robotic so making use of their special bonuses for having a mine that creates a resource and a factory that needs a resource next to each other.

 

In general, I feel like I'm disproportionately altering the economy. In other words, the price tanks on anything I produce in any quantity, and the price skyrockets on anything that I need to buy. Then when I try a different start, it flips the other way. 

[tberton]

To be clear, I meant that I studied the AI build order in one game, and applied it to the next, only to be outmaneuvered in that game and have the price of steel tank.

 

In general, I've found the price of Aluminum is never as high as water, sulfur, or carbon, so I rarely create an aluminum mine. The times that I do, the price seems to tank even further.

 

Yes, I'm making use of adjacency bonuses, and playing Robotic so making use of their special bonuses for having a mine that creates a resource and a factory that needs a resource next to each other.

 

In general, I feel like I'm disproportionately altering the economy. In other words, the price tanks on anything I produce in any quantity, and the price skyrockets on anything that I need to buy. Then when I try a different start, it flips the other way. 

 

Ah, okay, I didn't catch that. And sorry, by the way, if my tone came of as condescending or anything. I didn't mean it to and I appreciate how confusing the game can be. 

 

Robotic have the lowest Aluminum requirements, so they can get around it a bit, but in general, you really need an Aluminum mine at the beginning of the game or you're going to be paying for upgrades through the nose. You're right that the price tends to tank late game though, so if you can swing it, founding right next to a good source of Aluminum is always nice so that you can switch it into something more profitable later on.

 

You're right too that you have a big effect on the market and so a big part of the strategy is in identifying when you're going to need to transition into a different one. By HQ Level 4 or 5, you should generally have 3-4 triangles of secondary resources that are making you good money. Once one of those starts to dip and doesn't seem like it's coming back anytime soon, you can switch into something that's making more money. If you feel that you're still chasing prices as they disappear on you, try to identify resources that your opponent is going to need and use the Black Market to deny it to them. For instance, if your opponent is an Expansive HQ, you know they're going to constantly be consuming Food. So freeze their Farms and build some yourself then sell down that Food as fast as you can. The upward pressure on the market from their life support cost will keep the price high enough for you and by the time their Farms are back online, they'll be making less money than you did.

 

Also, Graddy, I got your invite!

[Dewar]

Hmm, maybe I'm not switching up strategy enough in the mid-game. The idea of founding right next to Aluminum so I can switch it up later is an interesting one. Recently, I've been founding next to iron as I like getting steel directly into my HQ without shipping, it makes early upgrades all that much faster.

 

Edit: Also, I could swear that there was a "return plot of land" button when I was playing at the start, but I haven't been able to do it in some time. Is that a difficulty level thing, or maybe I'm not looking in the right place for it?

[tberton]

Hmm, maybe I'm not switching up strategy enough in the mid-game. The idea of founding right next to Aluminum so I can switch it up later is an interesting one. Recently, I've been founding next to iron as I like getting steel directly into my HQ without shipping, it makes early upgrades all that much faster.

 

Edit: Also, I could swear that there was a "return plot of land" button when I was playing at the start, but I haven't been able to do it in some time. Is that a difficulty level thing, or maybe I'm not looking in the right place for it?

 

Founding next to Iron is a good idea! A good Robotic/Expansive founding spot will usually have Iron and Aluminum closely bunched together. As general rule of thumb, any secondary buildings (that is, buildings that require inputs other than power) should be built next to your HQ (Scientific HQs can get around this, but even then, closer is better). There are two reasons for this: first off all, if a building requires an input resource and isn't next to your HQ, that input resource needs to first be sent to the building and then the output resource needs to be sent back to HQ. Not only does that cost a lot of Fuel (or Power if your a Robot), but more importantly, it costs time and time is your most precious resource. Any second resources are flying through the air is a second you could instead be making money. For the same reason, putting your secondary buildings away from your HQ also makes it tougher to transition them.

 

If you're playing a lot as Robotic, remember that Power counts as an input resource, so that any building next to a Power producing building will receive an adjacency bonus. Building Solar Panels or Wind Turbines near your HQ (or even better, founding near a Geothermal Vent) is the best way to maximize the Robotic bonus.

 

As for the Return Claim button, you can do that, as long as 1) a structure hasn't finished building on that claim yet and 2)  the tile hasn't yet been hit by a Black Market effect. It's basically there in case you misclick.

[BigJKO]

Holy cow! This has gotten a sweet level of polish since I last played it.

 

I'm bigjko on Steam if anyone wants to add me and play some Offworld some day.

[Soren Johnson]

So, I recorded playthroughs of all of the Practice Games, along with general commentary on how to play, if you guys are interested:

[Dewar]

Nice, I'll check them out.

 

I played a couple of times this weekend and did better being more flexible with demolishing and reconstructing buildings. I managed to buy an opponent out, but then the next opponent bought me shortly after. Progress at least.