Jake

Idle Thumbs 161: The Eyes of Luigi

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Maybe my favourite thing about Breckon is his willingness to publicly talk about the times that he has embarrassed himself. (this was a great cast, also)

 

The best thing about that Nature Box story was that if Nick had just said "Hey, you like Nature Box? That's awesome. They sponsor a podcast that me and my friends host," there would not have been any awkwardness at all. But no, he had to Breckon it up.

 

As a Breckoncast, this one was obviously great, but very weird. It starts with a Sean adread, but then Sean's not in the episode. Then it goes forward in time, then it goes back in time, then Sean's back and then Sean's gone again. It was so weird.

 

Also, you mentioned Talking Time, the other forum I hang out in. Sweet!

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Ha, Jake told this exact story about The Phantom Menace after Chris told this exact story about Star Citizen in Episode 134: Sports. You guys are looping over yourselves.

 

I didn't know what you were talking about until I heard Jake's second anecdote about The Phantom Menace. Your observation has been duly noted in the YouTube timestamp.

 

 

Also, you mentioned Talking Time, the other forum I hang out in. Sweet!

 

Talking Time yo!

 

I'd also like to express, er, my fondness for that particular forum.

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I'd watch an International Pikmin 2 Championship, even if it was just one series of Jake vs. Chris. I just really want there to be some hardcore esports stats & overlays on a Pikmin 2 match. And now for the Phaedrus Inc marble steal of the game!

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I used to go to Talking Time until it got snarky and unpleasant, and then I came here! and act snarky and unpleasant and I don't know why

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It's not that I don't think people should keep trying to make progress, it's that I feel when people DO talk about it from a player standpoint, they're almost always talking about nothing. It isn't that it CAN'T be an interesting and important topic of discussion, it's that it usually ISN'T. It tends to get brought up with a very hand-wavey "bad AI" dismissal that means fairly little. Maybe there are more interesting criticisms going on that I'm not aware of, but it's rarely a useful point in the discussions and reviews I've seen.

Ah, okay.

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I don't understand how Star Citizen works either and I backed it. Occasionally they send me emails which have 30 minute videos showing models of space ships, Status updates on the alpha, more videos of guys running around hangers, fan podcasts, in-universe fan fiction, etc. Occasionally I'll log in and make sure my virtual ship is still there and see what random stuff they've added. I backed at the $35 level so I only have a small scout ship. As they've raised more money I now have a Class II Space Suit with Test Pilot Colors, a Fishtank Mark 1 with Midas Fish for my virtual hanger, a virtual UFE hand towel which hangs somewhere in my virtual hanger, and other strange random virtual items. I figure eventually I'll hear that the game has been out for a week and finally download it.

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It's not that I don't think people should keep trying to make progress, it's that I feel when people DO talk about it from a player standpoint, they're almost always talking about nothing. It isn't that it CAN'T be an interesting and important topic of discussion, it's that it usually ISN'T. It tends to get brought up with a very hand-wavey "bad AI" dismissal that means fairly little. Maybe there are more interesting criticisms going on that I'm not aware of, but it's rarely a useful point in the discussions and reviews I've seen.

Personally, there are two key things i expect to see out of FPS AI to make for a more dynamic and less exploitable game.

1) I want to see flanking behaviors, i dont want to be able to sit in one position and have them all funnel down through my line of fire.

2) I don't want to see enemies frantically stumbling over themselves to chase me whenever they lose line of sight, probably giving up advantageous positions to do so.

 

(There are exceptions to this of course. The enemies in Serious Sam games do not need to be smart, or at least not the kind of smart that a shooter with a more modern mindset would usually demand.)

FEAR was a rare game that hit both of those marks and seemed to go even further. It's been so many years since i played it, but i remember the AI in that game doing some very surprising things. Whether it was simply a confluence of simple AI routines giving the right illusion or actual intricately designed behavior, the game left quite an impression. (I think it's a game worth playing on hard just for how much it forces you to slow down, because by drawing out the fights, it shines a light on how good the AI can really be.)

With regards to Halo, it also hits those two marks and goes further. The way that series infuses its enemies with tons of personality is just amazing, how the various kinds of enemies all interact with eachother in ways that create a complex little ecosystem in each fight. (The examples everybody knows being that killing an elite might cause the grunts under its command to panic and flee, while killing one hunter in a pair will cause the survivor to become enranged and give chase.)

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Has anyone done any Drive pastiche Luigi Kart videos yet?

 

Re. AI, does anyone know about the differences in the Half-Life AI over the difficulty settings? I played through it on medium, and then heard that the much-vaunted excellent AI only kicks in on the highest difficulty setting. I did play Blue Shift on difficult but I then had to give up quite early on because the enemies were suddenly crazy aggressive. I was used to those big spitting things staying stuck to the spot!

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1) I want to see flanking behaviors, i dont want to be able to sit in one position and have them all funnel down through my line of fire.

 

I think the main problem with that desire is that many video game levels these days are so compact and linear as to make flanking AI behaviors almost totally superfluous for 90% of the games playtime.

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Personally, there are two key things i expect to see out of FPS AI to make for a more dynamic and less exploitable game.

1) I want to see flanking behaviors, i dont want to be able to sit in one position and have them all funnel down through my line of fire.

2) I don't want to see enemies frantically stumbling over themselves to chase me whenever they lose line of sight, probably giving up advantageous positions to do so.

(There are exceptions to this of course. The enemies in Serious Sam games do not need to be smart, or at least not the kind of smart that a shooter with a more modern mindset would usually demand.)

FEAR was a rare game that hit both of those marks and seemed to go even further. It's been so many years since i played it, but i remember the AI in that game doing some very surprising things. Whether it was simply a confluence of simple AI routines giving the right illusion or actual intricately designed behavior, the game left quite an impression. (I think it's a game worth playing on hard just for how much it forces you to slow down, because by drawing out the fights, it shines a light on how good the AI can really be.)

With regards to Halo, it also hits those two marks and goes further. The way that series infuses its enemies with tons of personality is just amazing, how the various kinds of enemies all interact with eachother in ways that create a complex little ecosystem in each fight. (The examples everybody knows being that killing an elite might cause the grunts under its command to panic and flee, while killing one hunter in a pair will cause the survivor to become enranged and give chase.)

Yep I agree with all this!

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I think the main problem with that desire is that many video game levels these days are so compact and linear as to make flanking AI behaviors almost totally superfluous for 90% of the games playtime.

 

Please, just spawn the enemies in a circle around the player. FLANK'D

 

For true tactical AI supremacy keep spawning them as they die.

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The thing about moving intelligently in corridor like spaces is that there is in fact a way to do that.  One guy shoots suppressing fire while the other advances forward, then they switch.  It's basic military tactic that works extremely well, which is probably the exact reason it doesn't happen a lot in games.  I imagine that because it can be so effective, it's less fun for the player to feel trapped and outsmarted by the AI.  Games love to tout their intelligent AI, but I think that a truly intelligent AI would actually frustrate most players, especially if they just want to shoot a thousand dudes.

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I agree with the reader re: Watch_Dogs. The story and ethics are brain dead and Aiden Pearce inspires nothing but exasperation but the game is fun and the magical hacking is just as good as advertised, which is a rare thing. You get to be Morpheus guiding Neo through the office and you can complete entire missions just standing on a sidewalk. There are lots of little things like how random NPCs react to you that seems lifelike and even though much of their bio details are randomized there is enough categorization that I am sometimes surprised by what I see. I thought that I wouldn't feel anything when stealing from a random poor person's bank account but I'd be lying if I didn't feel a slight tinge of regret when I hack someone's bank account that only has $300 in it...overall I'd have to say that this feature is a success. I don't regret buying Watch_Dogs at all.

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So many choice quotes cast into my pod this episode, I don't know where to start. Oh man.

 

I had the best and biggest laugh in a long time over Nick's sports commentary line. Oh sports commentary.

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