The Ultimate Playthrough, Metal Gears!?

[Twig]

There was that, too, but once that went away I definitely have heard a lot about MGS2 taking shit too far.

[Salacious Snake]

I think there's a significant segment of the audience who likes MGS in spite of many of its defining characteristics. I know I bounced off various entries in the series many times before things finally clicked for me, because I couldn't shake the conception of stealth I had developed from hours of Thief and Splinter Cell. Once I got it, though, I learned to love its unique style, and I especially fell for the weird storytelling. 

 

I love the crazy boss characters and everything, but maybe some people prefer to gloss over that stuff and pretend it's more of a gritty military espionage thing, and MGS2 is so chock full of weirdness that you just can't ignore it. On the other hand, if what you like about MGS is its eccentricities, then MGS2 is going to be the peak expression of that stuff.

 

I came to the series way late and out of order like Griddlelol, so the "bait and switch" wasn't an issue for me. I mean, looking back, it's not like Raiden is a less interesting protagonist than Soild Snake. If anything, he makes more sense in the context of the writing: Snake is supposed to be this legendary badass, but he comes off as a complete idiot thanks to the constant tutorializing, whereas Raiden is presented as a clueless newbie.

 

On the technical side, Sons of Liberty is insane. Playing the HD Collection, you don't get the full "Holy shit this is running on a PS2" effect, followed by the "Wow, this doesn't run so hot" effect of Snake Eater.

 

MGS 2 really steps up the whole sandbox aspect of the series. Going back to the MSX games, the series always includes items and interactions that go beyond what might be considered necessary, but this wealth of options makes it feel like you have the best action figure with the most kitted out playset imaginable. (4 takes this to an insane conclusion.)

 

Metal Gear Solid is a great game full of weird shit, but it always feels weirdly constrained by outside factors, like technical limitations or two-dimensional thinking inherited from the prior games. Sons of Liberty is an unfettered next level piece of singular creative force. Nothing that follows has that same energy (although 3 and 4 each have a lot to love).

 

 

 

I'm kind of shocked to hear that MGS2 is considered one of the worst of the series.

 

I don't think that's really the case. In terms of reviews, it was the best received game in the series. I think there's a very vocal minority of detractors. 

 

So, this torrent of rambling praise isn't exactly iconoclastic. It's an awesome game, and it was largely recognized as such.

[Griddlelol]

I just looked through some fairly old forum posts and there's a lot of complaining about 2. Most that Raiden is a character who no one could possibly like. He's too girly, he loves snake too much etc. Others than the narrative is dumb. Weirdly I feel like they're missing the point.

I guess, unfortunately, I do love the weird shit. Thankfully, Revengeance has loads of crazy weird stuff, and Raiden.

I also came to MGS from playing a ton of stealth games that are...actually stealth games. My posts a few pages ago are bitching about getting caught constantly. I just had to ditch that mindset.

[pyeixe]

I didn't really like raiden in until I met Metal gear solid 4 raiden. MGS 4 raiden is a proper badass

[Professor Video Games]

Raiden's alright. Anyone who can do a naked somersault while keeping their naughty bits covered up deserves some respect.

 

I just remember the back half of the game feeling rushed. The cutscene to gameplay ratio gets a little crazy, and the path gets much more linear due to what I assume is cut content. Years ago, when I had time to do such a thing, I watched a really great Let's Play of MGS2 where the guy mentioned the original plans for the game and points out where content got axed along with a bunch of other interesting stuff i.e an insane number of easter eggs. Maybe I'll try and track it down when I get home.

[Twig]

The cutscene to gameplay ratio gets a little crazy, and the path gets much more linear due to what I assume is cut content.

Sounds like MGS1!

[syntheticgerbil]

Snake Eater plays very much the same in terms of controls, but one thing I had to learn the hard way is that enemies are now much more perceptive to your footsteps (no high tech sneaking suit, natch), so to sneak up on them and hold them up MGS2 style or make use of the new advanced CQC, you have to use the d-pad to walk silently once you're in close proximity.

A lot of MGS3 is also making good use of switching your camo, so be prepared for that. It can either be a lot of tedium or strangely fun.

 

The Metal Gears screech like giant dinosaurs. Wtf?! WHY?! IT'S SO AWESOME.

This never stops, at least by Peacewalker. Weird goofy thing that MUST be done every time there's a Metal Gear.

 

While I like MGS2 okay, it just ranks lower than 1 and 3 to me. MGS4 is kind of shit in comparison though and Portable Ops is absolutely abysmal. I'm not gonna lie, even though I knew I was gonna play as Raiden, I didn't realize it would bug me so much. He was just so fucking whiny in that game I couldn't stand it.

 

I think a lot of my love for MGS3 also comes from just the amazing balance of story and gameplay that no other MGS has done before and since. It is of course long on the cutscene side like all Metal Gears but I always wanted to know what happened next and after the learning curve of MGS2 I felt like I was really good at 3. Also that torture scene was intense and amazing in a good way, since it's all about the interplay of the characters in the situation (and what they are hiding) rather than being about seeing something brutal. One of the best video game cutscenes.

[Garmonbozia]

Raiden's alright. Anyone who can do a naked somersault while keeping their naughty bits covered up deserves some respect.

 

I just remember the back half of the game feeling rushed. The cutscene to gameplay ratio gets a little crazy, and the path gets much more linear due to what I assume is cut content. Years ago, when I had time to do such a thing, I watched a really great Let's Play of MGS2 where the guy mentioned the original plans for the game and points out where content got axed along with a bunch of other interesting stuff i.e an insane number of easter eggs. Maybe I'll try and track it down when I get home.

 

Kojima's original design document is out there, it's a really fun read. I know there was at least one boss that was cut, who the room you fight [MGS2 SPOILER] Vamp in was designed for. Arsenal Gear crashing through Manhattan was also cut because of 9/11, but I don't remember if it was playable or a cutscene.

 

---

 

I just finished MGS2 last week, and it's definitely an amazing game, probably my favourite of what I've played so far (on the third Boss of MGS3). I'd bounced off the controls a good few times, having owned the HD collection for over a year without getting through the Tanker, but it really fell into place after I'd played MGS1. I wish I'd played it at release, the Raiden bait-and-switch is a pretty big part of the overall theme and it's all I'd heard about the game, but I still think my favourite thing about it was how it played off all the expectations I had after playing MGS1. I love how the essay people have probably already linked (http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm) talked about the game playing off three "maps": The Series Map, The Scenario Map and the Solid Map. 

I'm actually pretty underwhelmed by MGS3 at the point I'm at, the new free camera is pretty cool but I haven't felt it really changing the way I play. The most significant change is the removal of the radar, which I actually really like. I kinda relied on it too much in MGS2, so having to identify these camouflaged enemies feels fresh. The story hasn't gripped me yet though, which surprised me considering people say MGS3 has the best characters. The first two bosses are pretty bland characters that feel like they're just there as progression markers, they appear suddenly and leave just as quick. Snake's relationship with Big Boss is interesting, but apart from the start of the Snake Eater mission they haven't really interacted much. I'm hoping it starts to pick up, but I'm starting to feel like I'm pushing through it just to get ready for The Phantom Pain.

[pyeixe]

Ground zeroes is pretty cool, but I totally suck at it.

Is there bullet drop? Whenever I'm trying to tranquillise someone from long range I never seem to hit where I am expecting, but whenever time slows down it looks like they go pretty straight. I miss Fulton recovering absolutely everyone.

i had heard tell of the ending but boy, that certainly took me by surprise, watching someone be elbow deep in someone's guts is pretty horrifying apparently.

[Thrik]

I don't think there's much if any bullet drop with the pistols, so long as you're using them from sane pistol ranges. With that said, if you've just come from Peace Walker there is a huge difference in terms of hit boxes between that game and the rest of the series. I've noticed that replaying MGS2–4 after playing Peace Walker, it's ridiculously easy to hit enemies accurately in the latter game — there's basically no challenge to scoring headshots, which isn't how it's meant to be. Half the time I didn't even hit the enemy and it still counted.

 

I'm definitely looking forward to the return of the Fulton in The Phantom Pain. It sounds like it'll be more tricky to use than in Peace Walker, in that you can cause alerts if enemies see/hear them and such. There's also risk of the Fulton failing and causing the subject to drop to the ground, again causing havoc. I was worried that the Fulton would be an overpowered mechanic like with its previous appearance.

[Griddlelol]

I think the pistol has a max range of about 55 metres. After that it just won't hit.

 

 there's basically no challenge to scoring headshots, which isn't how it's meant to be.

 

So true. Hitting enemies in those games is easy...but if it was hard I'd have probably thrown my vita across the room. It's difficult enough to do literally everything else.

[pyeixe]

Yeah you could be right, the auto aim was very generous and snapped to targets. I am looking to spend more time with this though, try and s rank the side ops in preparation for September, to get used to it more than anything.

I think the pistol has a max range of about 55 metres. After that it just won't hit.

.

That might have been it, I was trying to shoot them out of tower.

[Griddlelol]

I was S ranking stuff, but after a while it gets a little boring. You can't get caught once, you can't reload a check point (which really bugs me) and you have to transport all the goddamn prisoners too. If it wasn't for that part, I'd have all S ranks now. I really hate running those prisoners over.

[syntheticgerbil]

In Peacewalker, the Mk. 22 snaps to headshot easier the more you use it. It also seems to have nearly unlimited range because you can forgo bringing a mosin nagant in order to have enough weapons slots for the Mk. 22 and sniper/rail gun for helicopters as well as the sneaking suit so you don't get caught on the initial run of guards. It seems to eventually take out a guy who you can barely see way up in the sky through the snap to headshot thing.

[Thrik]

When I played Peace Walker on PS3 I don't recall there being any snapping or auto-aiming, although it's possible I turned that off. It's quite easy to see on the big screen that even if you literally miss the head, it still hits because there's a big-ass invisible hit box there that's way bigger than the head itself.

[syntheticgerbil]

Well there's actually an auto aim button now that I think about that you could toggle, but it didn't do headshots so I never used it.

 

It's maybe a little bit subtle the the snapping is certainly there and I think it's either said in codec or the manual that using it more levels it up. At the very least using a weapon more makes it shake less. But if you notice, it always does those four white dots when aiming at a head, the higher the rank (separate of level), the closer they go together. When you aim towards a head the white dots take a second or so to converge closer together and you have then "snapped" to the head shot. If you nudge the camera left or right in the wrong way, the snapping will push it back correctly. It's definitely a thing Peacewalker added so you aren't sitting there lining up headshots in a painfully slow manner on a handheld, probably learning yet another mistake from the dreadful Portable Ops.

 

Also the auto aim dots seem exclusive to the Mk. 22 (and maybe other handguns? Never use them) while machine guns and such tend to use white lines that animate to show your aim is becoming less accurate the longer you shoot. You can also upgrade certain rockets to have almost instant auto aim, which is required for S ranking the custom robot battles.

 

But yeah it's definitely very easy to get a head shot, the game tends to just subvert it by throwing helmets on the guys in harder missions, triggering an alert when you shoot the helmet off, which you have to quickly shoot another headshot before the guy starts running away and radioing. By the time I got to perfect stealth missions I basically stopped going for head shots because of the helmets. Ibecame too risky and in Peacewalker you get better results holding people up with the sneaking suit or just shooting anywhere on the body 2-3 times with upgraded Mk. 22.

 

The amount of weapons and gear you never need to use in Peacewalker is insane.

[N1njaSquirrel]

So last night I completed MGS3, clocking in at just over 17 hours. Wow what a game. I really, really, really enjoyed this one. I think it's my favourite so far. The best boss fight for me was The End. at first I was frustrated, but then I really loved how every tool in Snake's arsenal could be used to track the sucker down. What a supendous fight.

 

I feel the sorrow's boss fight would have been more impactful had I not already known about it. I killed 273 people, according to my final stat screen. That particular fight took about 10 minuets to get to the end. And then it took me a good 3 goes before I worked out how to finish him.

 

I booted up MGS4 today. Again it's so damn different from the rest. I really love how the enemies just walk on past you if you're well hidden. Makes me feel like a badass. I just stopped, having gotten to the meetup in that abandoned building, and now I have to shoot my way down to the bottom. I didn't realise MGS4 would be such a clear cut of stealth and boring third person shooter. I died twice trying to get to the end, and I've stopped out of boredom. Which is a sad thing to say, really, as I love the game, and exploring this particular house highlights just how many ways I can go about things. Shame none of them are used, because it's just as easy shooting a lot of guys as they appear from the stairs than it is to crawl through some vents to get an advantage.

[syntheticgerbil]

Holy shit how did you kill 273 people?! Are there even that many in the game before The Sorrow? Did you keep getting alerts and killing all of the newly spawned troops?

[Smart Jason]

Holy shit how did you kill 273 people?! Are there even that many in the game before The Sorrow? Did you keep getting alerts and killing all of the newly spawned troops?

 

Kaz... I'm already a demon...

[pyeixe]

What happens in the sorrow fight when you kill people? I remember it just being a more or less straight walk down the river.

[N1njaSquirrel]

Sorrow fight spoiler:

Every person you kill comes back as a ghost, and zombie-like shuffles towards you as you walk down the river, sapping health when they touch you. Each death is also relative to the story too, which is bookmarked by bosses. It's a pretty cool fight, but when you have 100+ kills by then, it takes a long time to walk through them all. Especially when you didn't know that you could die at any time, not just at the end. :/

 

 

Holy shit how did you kill 273 people?! Are there even that many in the game before The Sorrow? Did you keep getting alerts and killing all of the newly spawned troops?

 

Yeah pretty much. I had a reckless no-restart run, where I would accept my failings and tried to roll with it. This did end up with me mounting multiple AA guns and shooting everything till it stopped. Which was fun. I think. I must have gotten like 100+ kills by the time I got to the sorrow.

[syntheticgerbil]

Haha, wow, I guess it's because I reload a lot of scenes go really wrong that I couldn't fathom. Probably reloaded the least on MGS3 after the beginning stuff with Sokolov, which was kind of a pain. However I usually end up having 3-5 kills on MGS runs, often I am punching or throwing someone off a thing in MGS3 and it counts as a kill, and since I'm not caught I go with it. That Sorrow sequence sounds absolutely painful like that.

[pyeixe]

Sorrow fight spoiler:

Every person you kill comes back as a ghost, and zombie-like shuffles towards you as you walk down the river, sapping health when they touch you. Each death is also relative to the story too, which is bookmarked by bosses. It's a pretty cool fight, but when you have 100+ kills by then, it takes a long time to walk through them all. Especially when you didn't know that you could die at any time, not just at the end. :/

Yeah pretty much. I had a reckless no-restart run, where I would accept my failings and tried to roll with it. This did end up with me mounting multiple AA guns and shooting everything till it stopped. Which was fun. I think. I must have gotten like 100+ kills by the time I got to the sorrow.

Ha weird, I had one or two bodies in mine, and some fish I think. I didn't realise that's how it adds up though, I'll have to watch it on Youtube

[N1njaSquirrel]

So last night I finished act 3 in MGS4. Wow this game is a real mixed bag of stuff. After pushing through that irritating house fight, things really picked up. The stand up moments for me so far have both been in act 2 and 3. 3 was amazing, as tailing a guy through the city was a joy. knocking out guards before he realised also gave me insane satisfaction. What a stupid guy for not noticing eh? Although I did tranq him on sight when he changed into a guard. It was only after he woke up I realised what an idiot I was.

 

Also oh boy does the story ramp up in the third act. Everyone is back, ready to dollop out some big juicy plot nuggets before leaving again.

 

As a random aside, it felt like after the fury fight, there should have been some sewer sneaking fun before meeting ocelot. I guess they didn't have time to put it in? It's very rare for an MGS game to transition places in a cut scene (unless snake is on a vehicle)

 

Also at the beginning of 2, freeing the resistance fighters from the 2 guards pointing guns at them and they then causing a ruckus to which you could sneak through was extremely satisfying. Also in the same act, hiding in the oil barrel to let a patrol pass me unnoticed was super satisfying. Before I started playing the series, the whole box thing was always sold to me as a big ongoing joke. That it actually works is always something I find really enjoyable.

[Smart Jason]

I think what stands out to me most in recollection of that act is that if you crawl onto the front window of the right cars in the city, you'll get the coolest piano black OctoCamo pattern in the game. It was an essential save when I kept a library of the most interesting and unique patterns I could find.

 

Which irritating house fight? Do you mean with Laughing Octopus? What didn't you like about it?

 

I wonder if it's a pattern that the even-numbered Metal Gears are always more rushed than the odds. It seems like you hear about more cut from 2 and 4 than the others. I bet we'll find out that a lot was cut from Phantom Pain too, though, despite it being V.