The Ultimate Playthrough, Metal Gears!?

[Thrik]

It's not that that I dislike the cutscenes, I think they're very nice once you adjust to the high disparity in visuals between them and the in-game stuff. The art does sometimes end up looking a little less great on my huge TV than I imagine it does on a handheld, but it's good stuff and I've always enjoyed the signature hand-drawn art style that the whole series has had.

 

The main reason for me preferring in-engine cutscenes is the same as why I like the home console mission structure, which is that for the most part the games are one big uninterrupted experience. Obviously it's nothing like Half-Life where everything occurs within the player's control, but it helps attain that similar feel of a long adventure. MGS5 bringing more of the codec conversation in-game will hopefully further accentuate this immersion. I was delighted to see the series' elaborate 2D visuals and infographics making a return in Peace Walker's cutscenes, when it comes to that stuff it's very similar to the other games.

 

It's definitely not missable in terms of story and such, but I think as an overall package one could skip it if put off by the graphics and simplified gameplay. In my opinion the overall feel of the gunplay and stealth isn't as refined as MGS3's, and they clearly struggled to get the game looking good on a big screen — it's probably the weakest-looking home console release if we substitute MGS1 for Twin Snakes. But that doesn't bother me! I love MGS enough to overlook these shortcomings, and I'd imagine that most dedicated fans can too. What I meant was that if people just can't get on with it, at least check out the story.

 

I know a lot of people won't though, so hopefully The Phantom Pain will have a really good overview of what happened in Peace Walker and possibly even Portable Ops. I'm familiar with the Portable Ops story, but it seemed conspicuous in its absence to me that Peace Walker began with quite a detailed retrospective of what happened in MGS3 but completely skipped mentioning anything Portable Ops. Makes me wonder how canonical/relevant Kojima considers it.

[syntheticgerbil]

Yeah the only mention of Portables Ops' story I have seen in other games is that a few of the cutscenes were used for parts in MGS4 during the church expository scenes, and it's mentioned a few times in the conversations in Peacewalker.

 

I think I read Kojima considers it canon but he claims he didn't write the game so is not considering the Grey Fox retcon essential. It's just kind of a cool side story that further shows Big Boss' motivations plus his distrust of Foxhound/The government starts, explaining why he is just a band of mercenaries in Peacewalker. So I'd say it's a good watch on Youtube. Also Gene leaves him his folder of ideas for building an army. I don't quite understand the importance of the Ocelot double cross that appears at the end of Portables Ops and doesn't seem to have any major impact any which way on the overall story, so I'm just going to say that was a throwaway scene to have that last bit of intrigue as the games usually do.

 

I don't know I think I ragged on Portable Ops on the forums here a lot somewhere, but I just feel frustrated even thinking about that game and it's missions. Peacewalker is based on the Portables engine but miraculously fixes all of the shortcomings and more, even if it meant simplifying, since one of Portable Ops biggest problems is it thought it was MGS3 just without the controls necessary. Maybe it's because before I started Peacewalker, a couple of years before what I had played were PO and the boring MGS4.

 

But yeah if you want to play and are on PS3, my PSN name is syntheticgerbil of course.

[J.C.]

Also Thrik, if you are on PS3 I'll play with you sometimes if I am available. I need to farm camaradarie and it takes FOREVER. I'm also not even close to done on extra ops and could use more AI parts and vehicles.

I'd be all for some co-op Peace Walker! I should get in on this playing through the games. I've only ever finished Twin Snakes, MGS2, and Peace Walker, despite MGS3 being the first I've owned. Always kept petering out on Snake Eater, even though it felt the best to play.

[Thrik]

Oh god, you must continue with Snake Eater. That is such a satisfying, great game. I think it's still my favourite in the whole series.

 

I'll add you to PSN, but it's probably unlikely I'll be available to do co-op. I tend to play games in a pretty weird way, taking lots of random breaks to mess around with my iPad and such — it's all part of my demented process of relaxing. I can make myself put time aside for multiplayer games though, so when MGS: Online comes along for MGS5 I'll probably be more likely to be around for that.

[N1njaSquirrel]

To revive this thread, I have silently been copying this thread, but instead of re-playing them, this is my first time attempting them, apart from Peace Walker, which I had on my PSP. I got the Legacy Collection which has every MGS game when I got my ps3 last year.

 

I want to complete all 4 titled games before 5 comes out. (Of which there's this sweet CE, which comes with a replica prosthetic arm, for a sweet deal at £100 from GAME)

 

 

Anyways, Last night I finished MGS! It's really good, and suprisingly doesn't feel that dated (in comparison to a lot of PS1 games). It felt more like an adventure game than a stealth game, which was cool. Also the Caribou at the end was hilarious.

 

Now I've started MGS2, and it's a huuuge change from 1. I'm really enjoying it, even if I do suck hard at everything. I'm going to try and go for the pacifist run, which I didn't realise was possible until recently.

[Thrik]

Man, I wish I could experience MGS2 for the first time again. What a bizarre but highly refined game. But if you think it's different compared to its predecessor, wait until MGS3 comes along!

 

I might have to replay those two in HD before #5 comes out.

[N1njaSquirrel]

That's literally what everyone who I've talked to has said! I also realise I know so little about MGS2. With 1, there's been loads of stuff that's been 'spoiled' just due to me being in gaming circles, like Meryl's codec, or Psycho Mantis. With 2, I know nothing. I didn't even realise it was on a boat! 

[syntheticgerbil]

I want to complete all 4 titled games before 5 comes out. (Of which there's this sweet CE, which comes with a replica prosthetic arm, for a sweet deal at £100 from GAME)

I wish they'd sell a version of this with only the making of Blu-ray (like MGS4 did) without all the extra space hogging junk and multiplayer DLC. I'm sad I have to spend that much for a making of thingy.

 

Also NinjaSquirrel, if MGS2 puts you off from the series in anyway, please don't quit. You've gotta play 3! 3 is one of my favorite games ever.

[N1njaSquirrel]

Yeah, I'm not too bothered about the DLC either, but man that prothetic arm will be ace. Just imagine the possibilities! Use it to shake people's hands, constantly have it on display, flipping the bird, recreate the final scene of T2 with baked beans, the possibilities are endless.

 

Ok maybe not, that's all I can think of.

 

MGS2 hasn't put me off at all yet! I have just got off the boat and onto the elevator, and it's pretty ace! The only quibbles I have is that some of the CG animation looks a bit crummy in cutscenes, especially explosions (which is weird because it looks decent elsewhere), but the actual plot is gripping and really interesting, which more than makes up for it. I also like the mechanic where you have to hack the terminals to get the map data, as it means that I'm relying less on my radar, which I pretty much exclusively did in 1. I get the feeling that Rose is going to be a pain in the butt later. If April 30th is just her fucking Birthday or something like that I'll be so pissed. That is one loaded gun that they keep on swinging around every time I save.

 

2 bits that I really loved in my playthrough of 2 so far:

 

Alerting a guard who was right next to me, as I peeked round the corner to try and get a shot in, only to knock over a lead pipe. The comedy timing was amazing, and it was a geniuine 'OH SHIT NO' moment before I got spotted and tranq'd like 5 guards.

 

Hiding from a red alert in the pantry where you get your first box, in said box. Guards came and instead of looking, just shot the place up. Exploding kabucha and flour was everywhere, which was genuinely shocking, but I was fine because I was in my box. They then came looking, and was another super tense moment as they stared at the box I was under for a good 30 secs before they were called off. Fucking A. Moments like that makes me want to keep on playing.

 

If 2 for whatever reason doesn't grab me, I do intend to just skip it and move onto 3, as I know that some people find 2 to be the weakest MGS of the series, so don't worry Gerbil! I fully intend to play 3!

[tegan]

So if I were interested in playing The Phantom Pain but can't even beat the first room in MGS1 and probably couldn't make it through an entire series, what are my options?

[syntheticgerbil]

I get the feeling that Rose is going to be a pain in the butt later.

Hmm, I think she's pretty agreeable. You just talk to her for lots of story. Her voice acting could be a lot better if I recall.

 

What I find really obnoxious is everything concerning Emma, who you probably have not encountered yet.

 

Tegan, I am not sure why you'd want to start with Phantom Pain, but the first room in MGS1 is notoriously a hard intro to the series. But it does pretty much set you up for all of the skills you need to come natural to finish the series. I have never played the PSX version, only Twin Snakes, is there a difficulty you can set? Also maybe if you can get a copy of Twin Snakes that might be a better place to start since you can use first person view and also have tranq darts to easily put people asleep from afar and stealthily. However I think it takes a while to get that, so you still don't have a way to finish the first room with tranqs.

 

I'd recommend you really just start with MGS3 since it doesn't exactly require any prior knowledge of the story of the series since it's the beginning chronologically in universe and it perfectly encapsulates the overall spirit of the series instead of the twisted world of MGS5. Also don't play the original PS2 release of MGS3 since it doesn't have a camera you can rotate, but every other release does. It's also more open so maybe you will have less of a problem getting caught. It does have burden of eating animals you come across to stay alive, but I never found that a problem and it was mostly hilarious to me to kill and eat every animal I could find. Plus speaking with Paratrooper about how edible each animal was was some of the most hilarious codec conversations in the whole series.

[tegan]

I'm not interested in starting with The Phantom Pain, just in playing it. All the stuff they've shown has had a very nihilistic and somewhat surreal tone that I've been enjoying a lot, but I know that the series has a reputation for callbacks and grand reveals that are only apparent to people who have been following every game and I'm trying to decide what level of prior knowledge seems most reasonable. That is to say: do I try to play the whole series? Just the numbered entries in the Solid series? Just the Big Boss stuff? Just MGS3? Would I be okay if I just watched a whole bunch of Metal Gear Scanlon? It's hard to tell what level of prior ignorance is acceptable when entering a Kojima game.

 

Also, if I only get to spend like an hour as this fucked-up version of Big Boss who -from my understanding- has lost everything from his organization to his arm and doesn't know what to with himself anymore, I'm gonna be sad.

 

 

Oh, and the version of MGS1 I'd been playing was the PSone classics version on Vita/PS3. Despite my difficulties with it in its original form, I've heard from multiple sources that Twin Snakes is a poor way to experience the first game. The only one besides Phantom Pain that looks really interesting to me is MGS3 and maybe Peace Walker, but I'm not sure whether the PS3, Vita, or 3DS is the one I'd want (I'm not gonna bother ebaying a Gamecube copy).

[Mawd]

After I move I plan to spend a whole bunch of time with Metal Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

I don't have Metal Gear Solid and I think I misplaced my psp so no Portable Ops for me. But I do have the PS3 versions of MGS2, MGS3, Peacewalker, and MGS4 so I'm excited.

I just hope my time playing it doesn't wholly get eaten up by radio conversations..

 

...

 

I'm doomed aren't I?

[syntheticgerbil]

That is to say: do I try to play the whole series? Just the numbered entries in the Solid series? Just the Big Boss stuff? Just MGS3? Would I be okay if I just watched a whole bunch of Metal Gear Scanlon? It's hard to tell what level of prior ignorance is acceptable when entering a Kojima game.

It's incredibly convoluted and doesn't really lend itself to just one game unless you go with either starting point (MGS1 and 3). It otherwise won't make sense. If you aren't there for the story or the David Hayter style Snake you should just play Phantom Pain for the fun and not the story.

Despite my difficulties with it in its original form, I've heard from multiple sources that Twin Snakes is a poor way to experience the first game.

The people that say that are nuts, it's still the same game except the cutscenes are more elaborate with backflips and such, which the detractors say is out of character but I wonder if they have actually ever played a Metal Gear Solid game beyond Metal Gear Solid on Playstation. Snake dodging a missle in slow motion is probably one of the least ridiculous things in the series at this point.

 

Plus it's built on the MGS2 engine which basically all of the gameplay has been iterative of since, so it's easier to get into the later games with that as a starting point. It also has character models with actual faces, so there's that.

[Thrik]

Yeah I've got to agree, Twin Snakes is an excellent remake that compromised almost nothing about the original yet gave the game a lot more atmosphere and pushed it past the magical graphic mark of around the year 2000 where games suddenly became a lot more timeless-looking.

It's actually the best and most respectful of game remakes I can think of, and the cutscenes in particular — a big part of any MGS — are more in keeping with the series as a whole and the dramatic timing is waaaaay better. For example:

http://youtu.be/K7bkBzMVGgk

http://youtu.be/SMnv08UEc0Q

I was a 100% PSX Metal Gear Solid fan, but I've actively recommended Twin Snakes over MGS1 for years. Even the voice performances are better — David Hayter in particular has clearly warmed into the part a lot more, evident in the videos above with the 'big boy like you' line.

Also, holy shit I need to get that emulated HD version now that few kinks remain.

[Twig]

The people that say that are nuts, it's still the same game except the cutscenes are more elaborate with backflips and such, which the detractors say is out of character but I wonder if they have actually ever played a Metal Gear Solid game beyond Metal Gear Solid on Playstation. Snake dodging a missle in slow motion is probably one of the least ridiculous things in the series at this point.

Right? That's always baffled me!

 

Twin Snakes is pretty cool.

[N1njaSquirrel]

I just finished MGS2.

 

I was understanding all of it until the last fight. Then it all went weird and not in a good way. I don't even know if it's all real. What is Metal Gear? What is game?

 

I also find it very weird how Kojima reportedly intended for it to be a standalone, and how he didn't want to make a 3rd at the time, in spite of so many things being left open at the end of the second game. The La Li Lu Le Lo, for example, are mentioned with some sort of shocking revelation, but to no reason or explanation. Likewise it's thrown aside and not brought up again, not even at the very end.

 

I also feel that kojima had something to say about sequels, given the purposeful plot point similarities with the first. (I don't want to give away too much)

 

Finally, I found the bosses to be kinda lacking compared to the first one.

 

My overall impression of the 2nd game is that it's good, but it doesn't reach the heights of the first game. The story at the end is also confusing and long, with a lot of dialouge and cutscenes that seems to go no-where, or to re-iterate a point that's been driven into the ground.

 

Now onto MGS3! I'm expecting great things!

[syntheticgerbil]

I am not sure if it's ever truly explained except maybe in a codec conversation somewhere in 2, but La Li Lu Le Lo is just another name for The Patriots... just because. Just seems to have been a random string of syllables.

 

A little bit more of a spoiler from MGS2, which is safe for you to read NinjaSquirrel:

"La Li Lu Le Lo" was a term automatically substituted for "Patriots." Government and military officials and others under the Patriots' direct control were manipulated by nanomachines inside their bodies so that whenever they tried to say the word "Patriots," their mouths would actually form the words "La Li Lu Le Lo" to keep the information secret. However, it is also thought that the term is simply trained into their operatives, as known Patriot affiliates under their control such as James Johnson, Revolver Ocelot, and Drebin 893 can talk freely of the Patriots.

It's really just inconsistent in the whole series on whether La Li Lu Le Lo is used instead of just the Patriots, since a majority of the time most people just say THE PATRIOTS whether or not anyone is manipulating them, so it's silly there's even a substitute in the first place if the MGS universe can't even keep up with their own reasoning.

 

Definitely MGS1 is much better in my opinion. All agreed here.

[N1njaSquirrel]

Oh right... But I thought the patriots are bad? Because Raiden never says "yeah I'm part of the La Li Lu Le Lo", when Aimes asks, he says 'who are they?' to which he's more than happy to give away the president's location. But Aimes is working for the Patriots? Why would he give away important details if he's not working for the patriots? For such a supposedly hidden group, fucking everyone is working for them, with them, or because of them.

 

 

I'm doomed aren't I?

 

For what it's worth, my MGS2 playthrough took 18 hours, and 1 took around the same time, so potentially not. I'll keep the tally going with 3, who knows how long that'll take me!

 

Loaded up MGS3 last night. wow. the jump from buildings to a fucking jungle is really harrowing. And yet again everything's changed. I didn't get far at all (I just got the backpack and saved), but the graphical jump between 2 and 3 is staggering too. The game looks amazing. And they've nailed the eyes too, which were really fucking weird in 2.

[Thrik]

Yeah, it's amazing to think that they both came out on the same console. I was floored at the time, and even now it holds up very well.

[J.C.]

I am not sure if it's ever truly explained except maybe in a codec conversation somewhere in 2, but La Li Lu Le Lo is just another name for The Patriots... just because. Just seems to have been a random string of syllables.

 

"Government and military officials and others under the Patriots' direct controlwere manipulated by nanomachines inside their bodies so that whenever they tried to say the word "Patriots," their mouths would actually form the words "La Li Lu Le Lo" to keep the information secret."

 

So silly.

[syntheticgerbil]

Yeah I mean that was what I put in my spoiler, but why those dumb syllables out of all dumb syllables? It's one of the most ridiculous things all of these people could continuously say without laughing.

 

Oh right... But I thought the patriots are bad? Because Raiden never says "yeah I'm part of the La Li Lu Le Lo", when Aimes asks, he says 'who are they?' to which he's more than happy to give away the president's location. But Aimes is working for the Patriots? Why would he give away important details if he's not working for the patriots? For such a supposedly hidden group, fucking everyone is working for them, with them, or because of them.

I don't remember the details with Ames specifically, but yeah the fact that somehow almost everyone with any sort of involvement in government or the plot is aware of the Patriots is one of the biggest headaches of the series.

[J.C.]

Oh woops. Sometimes reading helps.

[mikemariano]

Yeah I mean that was what I put in my spoiler, but why those dumb syllables out of all dumb syllables? It's one of the most ridiculous things all of these people could continuously say without laughing.

 

I used to say that continuously in Japanese class.  One way of forcing an "alphabetical" order onto Japanese syllables is to arrange by consonant, then by vowel.  The order I was taught was "AIUEO."  So ta chi tsu te to, sa shi su se so, r/la li lu le lo...

 

I have no idea if actual Japanese children are taught this way, but maybe it's supposed to tie into rote learning?

[J.C.]

I read something about it being part of some conspiracy theory/urban legend or something that the Japanese government censored those syllables, as they don't exist in Japanese. Somehow tying into the La Li Lu Le Lo censoring their involvement in things going on everywhere.

 

Who knows though, trying to make sense of Kojima is a good way to get a nice headache.