TyroneTargel Posted May 22, 2014 Nintendo will be fine. I think they just need to stop experimenting with hardware gimmicks that impress people for a few years before they get bored. Stick with games. Games are the things that have been going for 30 years and games will still be going in 100 years. 1) Do whatever it takes to get third party developers back on board. 2) Keep trying to get as many indies as possible. 3) Ditch all of the people working on hardware ideas and move them into making games. If Nintendo made about 30% more games of the quality of Mario and Zelda, they'd be fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tegan Posted May 23, 2014 3) Ditch all of the people working on hardware ideas and move them into making games. If Nintendo made about 30% more games of the quality of Mario and Zelda, they'd be fine. I'm pretty sure that hardware developers and game developers are almost assuredly entirely different people. Another thing I kind of wish that modern Nintendo would stop doing: learn to say no to Miyamoto. Dude's a legend, but he's also been actively trying to remove story from games he works on for a while now, which is why we get things like the cookie cutter NSMB games or the 3DS Paper Mario game that went out of its way to ruin the best character of the series. He also personally scrapped all the bosses from Luigi's Mansion 2 and made the team design new ones, which is a sign that he's either lost his touch or that the original bosses would have been considered war crimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted May 23, 2014 tegan what are you talking about all that wasted effort on things like marketing and accounting and running a business and stuff when they could just be making more games C'MON maybe some of their artists should make a little less art and do a little more programming too OR EVEN VICE VERSA Also: how was Bowser ruined in 3DS Paper Mario? ): I didn't play it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ucantalas Posted May 23, 2014 Bowser was in Paper Mario Sticker Star? Man, I must have completely forgot! I don't remember seeing him anywhere in that game... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tegan Posted May 23, 2014 Bowser was in Paper Mario Sticker Star? Man, I must have completely forgot! I don't remember seeing him anywhere in that game... I'm not sure if this is a joke post or just a testament to how forgettable Bowser, the game's primary antagonist, is when he doesn't talk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ucantalas Posted May 23, 2014 It was just meant to be a bit of a joke about how Bowser really is completely forgettable in that game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merus Posted May 23, 2014 3) Ditch all of the people working on hardware ideas and move them into making games. If Nintendo made about 30% more games of the quality of Mario and Zelda, they'd be fine. They only make games so people will buy their hardware. That's why they don't make games for other people's hardware. They could do it, so, so easily, if they were a games company. They're not. They just happen to be a hardware company that's pretty good at making games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SiN Posted May 23, 2014 It's always been plainly obvious to me that Nintendo are the Apple of the Video game industry. Their hardware informs their Video game design, and their video games feedback into the hardware design. They are neither a hardware or software company, they are both in equal measure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted May 23, 2014 The difference is, as much as I am loathe to admit it because Apple sucks, Apple is actually good at delivering a user experience that is expected of the contemporary hardware market. Nintendo's complete garbage at it. also ugh comparing nintendo to apple maybe apple should buy nintendo lol edit: lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted May 23, 2014 The difference is, as much as I am loathe to admit it because Apple sucks, Apple is actually good at delivering a user experience that is expected of the contemporary hardware market. Nintendo's complete garbage at it. also ugh comparing nintendo to apple maybe apple should buy nintendo lol edit: lol I think Apple tries very hard to initiate what eventually becomes the expected experience. Nintendo tries to do this too, they just really suck at it because they don't seem to know or understand who their users are anymore. Outside of Japan anyway. Also yes, comparing the two, ugh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted May 23, 2014 Yeah, maybe "expected" wasn't the right word for me to use. But Apple is very good at crafting a UX that works and becomes the norm, as you said. Nintendo... as you said... fails again and again. I suppose, though, that's not Nintendo's goal, whereas it is Apple's goal, so one can't hold it against Nintendo in the context of this comparison, anyway. But they need to learn that it's still important, somehow. Blargh. ugh ugh ugh why am i still doing this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SiN Posted May 23, 2014 Haha, I expected the typical techie/gamer Apple hate. I love it. I actually think Nintendo has top class hardware and UX design, you just need to skew your perspective a bit. Think about their UX in games, not software. Mario 64 (and Zelda OoT) defined the template for controlling and navigating 3D games. The initial line up of DS games showed the possibilities for touch. Wii Sports for gesture-based games. Etc. And just in general, Nintendo games layer concepts on top of each other in a well-paced, intuitive way. (As in: here's idea X. Here's Y. Now use X+Y) One of the things that has disappointed me in recent times is Nintendo's over-reliance on tutorials, videos, message boxes, etc. They're so good at "show, don't tell" ... SMB World 1-1 is a classic example of this. On hardware, Nintendo's primary goals are price and durability. So sure, the DS is no iPhone (or whatever, modern smartphone), but it's not trying to be. Instead, Nintendo have their own design aesthetic, that's elegant but toy-like. I think the DSi is a *beautiful* piece of hardware, but in a way that's unlike any other tech on the market today. The 2DS is a triumph of design too, but in the classic "solve this business problem" sense. I imagine the directive was literally "redesign the 3DS in a way that allows deep cost cutting", and they solved it in an innovative way. That said, yes, for whatever reason they can't design a simple "app" (or menu) style interface if their lives depended on it. :/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted May 23, 2014 Haha, I expected the typical techie/gamer Apple hate. I love it. Oh. What. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SiN Posted May 23, 2014 You know, like: "as much as I am loathe to admit it because Apple sucks" I'm a software developer. Everyone I've ever worked with has hated Apple. It used to be annoying/frustrating, but after years of dealing with it, I just find it kinda amusing. Didn't mean to offend/insult, or anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merus Posted May 23, 2014 It is such a boring reflex. I grew up with Windows, but it's easy to acknowledge that Apple make the best developer hardware in the world these days, and the Apple tax of the 90s has all but disappeared as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted May 23, 2014 I will totally and freely admit that Apple makes great products. It would be stupid to say otherwise. That said, I don't LIKE their products. I don't have a fanatical love of Windows or Android or whatever either, but I dislike Apple's stuff enough to not want to use them. That's all I'm going to say before this gets derailed any more. Edit: Yay new page that makes me look dumb(er) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted May 23, 2014 It's okay SAM you'll always be the dumbest in my heart. <3 You know, like: "as much as I am loathe to admit it because Apple sucks" I'm a software developer. Everyone I've ever worked with has hated Apple. It used to be annoying/frustrating, but after years of dealing with it, I just find it kinda amusing. Didn't mean to offend/insult, or anything. Oh. I kind of forgot I even said that! If it's any consolation, I was just being dumb because I know that's the expected attitude. (That said, I don't like Apple, either, same as SAM. But I don't care enough to argue about it or make a big deal.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BFrank Posted May 23, 2014 Another thing I kind of wish that modern Nintendo would stop doing: learn to say no to Miyamoto. Dude's a legend, but he's also been actively trying to remove story from games he works on for a while now, which is why we get things like the cookie cutter NSMB games or the 3DS Paper Mario game that went out of its way to ruin the best character of the series. He also personally scrapped all the bosses from Luigi's Mansion 2 and made the team design new ones, which is a sign that he's either lost his touch or that the original bosses would have been considered war crimes. This makes me sad, because it's pretty much the #1 reason why I'm still in love with Nintendo games. Story isn't at all antithetical to good gameplay, but taking the lightest possible touch approach when making mechanics-driven games is still (in my opinion) the best way to go. Basically, he's been pushing back against a trend and it's given the work a distinctive quality. I'd hate to see them lose that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merus Posted May 24, 2014 The problem is that he pushes back in the wrong places. Zelda could stand to be less talky and more evocative, but Koizuma deftly handles the kinds of plots that he attempts with Mario - never too heavy, with a nice dose of melancholy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted May 24, 2014 It's okay SAM you'll always be the dumbest in my heart. <3 Thanks Twig, you too Hey wait a second... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
