Impossidog

Getting into the industry?

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Nope! Never have been and god willing never will be. Although I guess technically now that I run a review site, I'm a games journalist.

 

Interesting, well I suppose it is good that you still have passion for the games industry. But I do really like you site.

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I hope you took Tycho's other post (about working conditions etc) seriously as well. I think a lot of people would have ended up happier if they made games as a hobby rather than trying to make a career out of it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if that would lead to a lot more interesting games as well, judging from people like Tom Francis.

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I hope you took Tycho's other post (about working conditions etc) seriously as well. I think a lot of people would have ended up happier if they made games as a hobby rather than trying to make a career out of it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if that would lead to a lot more interesting games as well, judging from people like Tom Francis.

 

Ya, I am well aware of working conditions in the industry, I visited my friend at EA during crunch and he looked like he may die. But I love games and I would hope in the next ten years that stuff gets better

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It's not a mystery, it's really simple. You work for 800 hours a week, burn yourself out, and realize you could make more money and be happier using your skills in any other industry. Then you quit, having learned enough about making games to make it impossible to ever play them again without automatically picking them apart at a technical level, thus ruining what was once one of your favorite hobbies.

 

Just to add my two cents, this pretty much sums up why I personally lost interest in pursuing this career path. For most of my life my dream was to one day have a career making video games. But as I've gotten older and become more aware of how the video game industry works, I've decided that it just isn't for me. Between all of the stories I've heard of crazy long hours worked during crunch time and video game studios starting up and shutting down left and right, I realized that the chance of me having a stable career with a good work-life balance would be pretty slim. Even if my perception is all wrong and these perceived negatives aren't really accurate, I'm still not sure it would be the right path for me due to the last point you made in your post. I'm worried that it would destroy the enjoyment I get out of my favorite hobby.

 

On a related note, about a year and a half ago, I downloaded Visual Studio and Allegro and started trying to make my own game. It was going great for a few weeks until I realized that I'd rather be playing games than making them. Since then I've come to the conclusion that if my dreams came true and I could magically make money doing something video game related, it would fall more along the lines of writing about my experiences with video games. Considering I don't quite have the necessary writing skills to pursue that kind of thing and I am quite happy with my current job, that is not really anything I plan to pursue and I have just accepted that I will probably be happiest playing and enjoying games without having any commitments tied to it.

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It's not a mystery, it's really simple. You work for 800 hours a week, burn yourself out, and realize you could make more money and be happier using your skills in any other industry. Then you quit, having learned enough about making games to make it impossible to ever play them again without automatically picking them apart at a technical level, thus ruining what was once one of your favorite hobbies.

Sure if you get a shitty job.

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I think the key is to look at why you love games and how much of your life they occupy, for instance I spend about 70% of my life thinking, consuming and reading about games. I find it fascinating and I love the art of it. but to the point of it ruining relationships I am a pretty introverted person and I prefer to be occupied by my work. Crunch sounds hard but to me it sounds interesting, I want to be apart of something that makes people happy.

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you could make more money

 

This is true.

 

and be happier using your skills in any other industry.

 

This is not necessarily true. If you're the kind of person who actually enjoys making games (not just playing them), it's going to be pretty tough finding another industry that will provide that same feeling of satisfaction.

 

Maybe I've just been really lucky so far, but I currently have no regrets whatsoever about getting into the industry and I can't think of anything else I would rather be doing for a living.

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This is true.

 

 

This is not necessarily true. If you're the kind of person who actually enjoys making games (not just playing them), it's going to be pretty tough finding another industry that will provide that same feeling of satisfaction.

 

Maybe I've just been really lucky so far, but I currently have no regrets whatsoever about getting into the industry and I can't think of anything else I would rather be doing for a living.

 

This. Please

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his is not necessarily true. If you're the kind of person who actually enjoys making games (not just playing them), it's going to be pretty tough finding another industry that will provide that same feeling of satisfaction.

 

Maybe I've just been really lucky so far, but I currently have no regrets whatsoever about getting into the industry and I can't think of anything else I would rather be doing for a living.

I'll contest to that. I really don't want to do anything else now that I have completely failed to get another job in games after 4-5 years doing it successfully. It just feels gut wrenching to have to get some other unskilled job since you don't have a degree for anything else and therefore lose all your potential in life. Thing is, when I think of going to school again, I can't think of anything else I'd love to do other than art and animation and therefore can't justify running up more enormous student loan debt. So now, I'll almost take any bad job related to games (or animation) if it were offered and the overtime were terrible, just because I don't want to do anything else. Damn it.

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I'll contest to that.

 

Attest?

 

Perhaps you could get a temp part-time office monkey job and use the rest if your time to make things or apply for things...

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I think the main thing is the whole luck is really just preparation meets opportunity. The last tone control had some good stuff in it about keeping positive about your work.

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Whatever your discipline your portfolio is number one. Games, even incomplete ones, are simply the best kind of content. Do not sink all your time into a single magnum opus, at least at first. Practice; set yourself a couple of challenges where you may not think there's a massive call for a writer, before perhaps branching out to something more typical like an adventure game etc. Perhaps totally complete a couple of these while working on a larger piece of written work.  For example, how could you as a writer make a pachinko game better, or a fashion designer game, or a fighter, or a platformer.

 

Unless you're in desperate need of physical peer pressure/support (some people are - especially starting out or motivation while working another job etc.) I would not think a degree is the best use of your time/money. Here in the UK contacts with universities are few and far between despite what some courses like to promise, they're nothing that you can't do for yourself by emailing/calling/posting a good work sample to a studio. It sounds like things might be a bit different in Canada, but I suspect you'll still find as good, if not better content and support online. 

 

The exception to this may be if you're in need of some real specific training, and can guarantee enough tutor/peer time for their input to greatly increase your productivity - again a little skeptical of how this works in practice, tutors not in labs, lab that are only open in working hours, fellow students who may not want to be there or simply have different schedules.

 

Now, it should be said this may all be more practical if you've got 3 years, and a couple of other interests to firm up that you can spend your time on as well as your chosen degree. But I don't feel this is quite your situation? If you do want to go to University research your options thoroughly - no course/institution is the same - talk to the tutors, and do not be afraid to walk away from it if it turns out it won't be the best fit for you.

 

... The situation I fear is you on a modular course where only 3/5 modules are of direct interest to you and you're taking valuable time out of your life to travel to uni, sit in a theater/lab, listen to some discussions not as good as idle thumbs, not have work finished yet and worth showing, but still have a pleasant and interesting chat, but end up going home with a business card with the same contact information that is on a company website... just like every other student in there.

 

Of course shipped games help, but only if people have heard of them - and sometimes, depending on who's looking at cvs, or doing an interview, it could be pot luck whether they've heard of, let alone played the game - so don't worry about it. Just be ready and able to illustrate how you contributed to a game project, even if it was not completed.

 

If you have a couple of sheets/clips to pull out and present to someone at a desk, or in an email, and make a compelling point of how you were useful in situation x that's half your interview, the other half will be them seeing if they like you. It might help to have examples of how your work can adapt to the mobile/tablet/big screen spread - but beyond that it simply won't matter if the game in question was an unnamed demo (well maybe for a writer), or the latest first person shooter - just so long as you did something good!

 

In your position you have to respect a writer is something of a directorial role in games development. Obviously there's typically a lot more bodies doing other things in an already small sized industry.

 

To make yourself more versatile, particularly to a smaller company, I would consider getting into a spot of scripting. In a strange way you can appreciate how attempting to walk in as the writer to a larger company may also appear arrogant. A penchant/ability for scripting/level design/UI work opens you up to far more design positions than writing alone. The experience will also give you an insight into the challenges in making games and the way writing works in games.

 

This being said if writing is the only thing that really intrigues you this could be something of a (massive) distraction and you may be best only dipping a toe into this area and concentrating on games as a part of your career as a writer, at least at first.

 

As far as possible - have a think - kind of design your portfolio and try to mostly shape your route to get that that as far as possible. Do not just sit on a course and try to push whatever comes out of that into a folder and present that as a portfolio. You might find a traditional writing degree can be shaped to better fit your purposes for example - do not come to it determined to do a 'games' course but determined to do the work you want to do.

 

Upshot: whether or not you go to university, ensure your chosen route will help you get the portfolio you want. 

 

... And, yes, this is a small industry, depending on your goal do not get disheartened if it takes a few years to find your place, look after yourself and as much as you 'go for it' remember it's not the be all and end all. 

 

This is a massive post... sorry ... hope it helps :)

 

*Wasn't sure if it was idle thumbs or not... but it is ...  end of recent Idle Thumbs 142: Unmasking the Brain they discuss getting into (making) games as a writer. 

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Why would you learn how to design a game when you could get into the lucrative business of reskinning apps?

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Why would you learn how to design a game when you could get into the lucrative business of reskinning apps?

 

...You only need to answer the first bit, usually answered with something like 'because I want to'.

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No I got it, just didn't appreciate it, I know I wrote a terrible wall of text, but it was intended to be helpful. Being followed by snark wasn't great, whether intentional or not. I should have just left it alone, but I prodded it - obviously overcome with the need to type in a new forum... and now for some reason explaining it all... hmm

 

But never fear, I do actually have a sense of humour, honest.

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Knowing Rodi a bit, I know that wasn't at all aimed at your person. I wouldn't even call it snark either, just a light-hearted joke.

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Yes, don't worry, Gray, it wasn't in the slightest meant as a dig at you or your enthusiasm. The finger pointed directly at the crazy reskinning thing that's been heating up the internet.

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Tis fine, honestly - humour intact - my bad for being too self involved and feeling I should answer back something that was unrelated. Sorry for diverting the thread :)

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I agree, as someone who got a Bachelor's in Chemistry and is now working in IT, that working on a lot of games will be better for future job hunting than getting a piece of paper from a university, with the following caveats.

 

First, there are a lot of programming concepts laid down in the first few CS classes that can be really handy in building basic skills such as logical thinking and programming structure. These are certainly things that could also be learned from books or from online classes, all depending on how you learn best I guess.

 

Second, having a degree (no matter what it is in) does prove to perspective employers that you are capable of committing and finishing something. Obviously having a solid and complete game can also fill this gap, but it might trump a lot of half-finished projects. I got my first IT job because I had a degree, even though it didn't have anything to do with the actual job I was applying for.

 

Third, there's a lot of team building that goes on when you're in the same classes with people over several years. Once again, this can be substituted with things like game jams, modding projects, etc.  

 

 

During the times that I've been actively programming, I've found that the podcasts with Adam Savage (of Mythbusters fame) on tested.com to be a really cool inspiration. In the end, they talk a lot about building things and though they're talking physically and you're working more virtually, there's a lot of useful hints on there regarding inspiration, creativity, etc. The fact that it's not directly about programming makes it a little more relaxing to listen to I think.

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I think I should mention why I want to make games.

 

I want to have a career that allows me to make friends and make things with them, I love meeting new people and being creative with them. You have no idea how jelly I am of the Thumbs crew. Being best buddies and being able to work on something they love. ugh. the best. 

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Then forming your own indie studio is the way to go. Apply for a job at the bigger studios and you run the risk of being trapped in a soulless, competitive environment where everyone is frantically scrambling not to get laid off. Either way, it'll be super hard work, but doing it together with friends in a small team seems a lot closer to what you're looking for.

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If your goal is to make stuff with friends, find the friends first and then figure out what you want to make with them rather than the other way around.

I'd also like to warn from personal experience that greatly enjoying games and playing/thinking about them a lot is a prerequisite for being able to make good games, but not an indicator that you'll be able to, or even enjoy doing so.

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I think I should mention why I want to make games.

 

I want to have a career that allows me to make friends and make things with them, I love meeting new people and being creative with them. You have no idea how jelly I am of the Thumbs crew. Being best buddies and being able to work on something they love. ugh. the best. 

 Then the game industry isn't for you.

 

I don't know what it's like in mobile, casual, or indie, but most game companies i've worked for aren't the most social places, it's sit down, put ear phones on and do your job. By the time the work is done you're probably too burnt out to go out half of the time, the other half, and this could just be me, the last thing I want to do is hang out with anyone from work.

 

Not to sound so glum about it, I've been talking down the business practices and working life of the AAA industry for years and from what I can tell in my 9 years, it's getting worse, not any better.

 

What is going on with the Idle Thumbs crew is amazing and extremely rare due to their personalities and years of hard work; I'd call it a miracle if I believed in such things.

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