Getting into the industry?

[Impossidog]

I have been working as a freelance games writer since 2005, in fact my first review was Resident Evil 4 for a local magazine.

However my true passion, is to make games and from the research I have done over the past three years there is no typical way of getting into the industry. So I thought why not make a game? Well I am currently working a full time retail job and am in the process of applying for University. 

 

So this terribly written paragraph is leading to one question, should I focus on going to university to get a game design degree? or should I take the next four months or so to finish the game I have been working on?

 

 

[thorn]

I don't work in industry myself, but I work in a university that offers a game dev course and taught a bunch of its students. From what I've heard from them, game companies care less about the course than about the games they have personally worked on. The advantage of doing the course is that they have plenty of opportunities to work on games as assignments, both individually and in groups.

 

Assuming you have a requisite level of skills, your game(s) will count for more than the degree will.

[Impossidog]

This was super insightful thanks!

 

The biggest problem I have with a program is that, from what I have been told by a few graduates, they spend two years grooming you for Bioware (I live in Edmonton, Alberta) which seems to me to be incredibly not helpful to anyone who wants to make games to focus on one aspect of story telling or design. I find games to be interesting based on the inherent nature of being different from one another and I am afraid that the course may be to boring. 

 

Also I am not sure if anyone has family members that think that if you do not get a degree then you are doing absolutely zero with your life.

[kaputt]

Also I am not sure if anyone has family members that think that if you do not get a degree then you are doing absolutely zero with your life.

That happens. When you study too much, they think you're doing zero of your life as well. Sometimes it's just difficult to match expectations, I just think you should go for what's suits you better.

We'll, I have one curiosity: is it needed to have math skills to enter the industry? I think it's only needed for stuff like programming, right?

I always had this curiosity, I'd like to work in the industry if that was the case - although that would be impossible here, because there's almost zero games production activity in Brazil.

[melmer]

Also I am not sure if anyone has family members that think that if you do not get a degree then you are doing absolutely zero with your life.

Haha. THIS. it's like 9 yeas ago now but I did a 3D computer animation course at university, which was a 2 year HND and then the 3rd year tops it up to a degree. (I kinda fucked up the course by only turning up once a month) But I finished the 2 years HND with a pass and claimed my certificate \o/ and yet to this fucking day my parents think I flunked out of university and have nothing to show for it.

Also hilariously, if I had bothered to go too my graduation ceremony due to the alphabetical order of courses/names I would have been the very first person to walk on stage and collect a certificate (they sent me the programme through the post)

I wouldn't worry too much what your family thinks, it won't matter 5-10 years down the line

[clyde]

I can assure you that people with degrees do something with their lives; they pay off student-loans.

[Justin Leego]

I always had this curiosity, I'd like to work in the industry if that was the case - although that would be impossible here, because there's almost zero games production activity in Brazil.

 

Isn't Brazil quite active in terms of indie game teams and mobile development? Maybe I'd got the wrong impression, or just a partial one.

[Reyturner]

If you're not artistically inclined, the only thing worth going to school for is CS. The odds of the skills you learn getting a computer science degree subsequently paying off the debts you'll incur getting a computer science degree can't be beat. This is especially valuable if you want to get hired at a major studio; self taught programmers with no previous professional experience have a bad reputation. 

 

Ironically, people with game design degrees have similarly bad reputations. This isn't to say that there are NO good game design courses out there, but unless you get some demonstrable hard skills under your belt (something game schools are woefully bad at providing) or you happen to be attached to an amazing project, you might find yourself in a tough spot once your graduate. 

 

The best thing about going to a games school is being surrounded by like-minded people, but, there are TONS of places to get similar support. Two threads over for example. 

 

Write about games. Make games. Go to events with other people to make and write about games. Hard skills are 90% of what gets you ahead, but who you know is the other 90%. 

[Impossidog]

The thing that I hear over and over again from devs I have talked to is: Make games, make lots of games and don't just make contacts make friends.

 

The biggest concern I have is that my area has almost no devs in the area. The only two I can think of is Bioware and the guys who are making Starforgre, so if I get this degree I am stuff here with no where to work.

[TychoCelchuuu]

You can always form your own indie studio or move.

[Impossidog]

That is true, I want to move west to Vancouver. I think the underlying problem I have is at 20 I am constantly panicking that I am doing nothing with my life, how ever absurd that actually is.

 

Is it just me or is the game industry a complete mystery in terms of career paths?
 

[TychoCelchuuu]

It's not a mystery, it's really simple. You work for 800 hours a week, burn yourself out, and realize you could make more money and be happier using your skills in any other industry. Then you quit, having learned enough about making games to make it impossible to ever play them again without automatically picking them apart at a technical level, thus ruining what was once one of your favorite hobbies.

[Reyturner]

Vancouver has an absurd cost of living and the local scene is a shadow of its former self. Toronto or Montreal are probably better ideas.

[Impossidog]

I have a lot of family in Vancouver so I have a stable support system there.

[Reyturner]

Ah! Ok then, that's different. 

 

If you're thinking about going to school with the intent of getting a job at a studio, BCIT or VFS are excellent schools for CS and Art / Design for Games respectively (you could call VFS "one of the good ones" as far as game design schools go, but certainly not one of the cheap ones).

 

Their mirror universe evil twins are CDI and Art Institute. Don't go to either. They are terrible. 

 

There are a couple good "first job" type studios in Vancouver still but a lot of them are on pretty shaky financial grounds (Relic, UFG); you'll probably end up with short term contracts. There's also EA Canada... ugh. They're great to have on a resume, but I doubt you'd want to stay there long term. There are also a lot of smaller studios, but there are so many unemployed / underemployed devs in town that they have their pick of the litter; you'll need a few titles under your belt before they come calling.  

 

A lot of people end up going back east, though (and a lot end up coming back too, but with more experience under their belt). 

 

If you're going the indie route, I echo the sentiment expressed on the podcast: don't move somewhere expensive just to be a part of the scene (having family in town notwithstanding). Vancouver can't hold a candle to San Fran scene-wise and I'm pretty sure it's MORE expensive here than it is down there. 

[Impossidog]

I think you bring up a lot of great points that I never considered. A good friend of mine is a lead at EA Blackbox and from what I can tell he kinda hates EA currently.

 

Ideally my end goal is: Make cool games with people I enjoy.

 

the more I look at it I kinda want to just make a few small games for a portfolio and wait on school for a little bit.

[Jake]

The existence of the Internet means you don't have to start out in real life proximity to people. Get one of the most commonly talked about free engines out there and make something basic using the tropes of a genre you love. (Eg: moving a guy around like one does in a 2d platformer, or a 3d third person game, or an fps, or a vehicle sim, or an RTS unit) and keep building out. Or do something else. Just make stuff and post about it.

It's actually kind of surprising there isn't a "let's all make stupid shit in unity or game maker" thread on here. Maybe everyone's too busy.

[elmuerte]

You mean a thread like this?

[Jake]

That is awesome.

[Impossidog]

I think the biggest obstacle I have had and maybe some others have had as well is making a game on your own gets super hard when things aren't working, or you hit a design wall etc.

 

I have about five different games half finished because half way through I got lost in the details. I am gonna have to get in that thread and make some friends.

 

One question I have is a portfolio of games you have "shipped" more important to getting a job then a degree? I rather not was my time and all my savings on a degree that won't help me when I could be working on games instead.

[osmosisch]

Also, this might be obvious, but you're listening to Tone Control right? Stories about how some great devs got into the industry?

[TychoCelchuuu]

One question I have is a portfolio of games you have "shipped" more important to getting a job then a degree? I rather not was my time and all my savings on a degree that won't help me when I could be working on games instead.

It is ten million times more important to have a good portfolio than it is to have a degree. Someone with a good portfolio and no degree will beat someone with not as good a portfolio and a degree every time.

[Impossidog]

I think I go through the entire suite of Tone Control episodes about once a week, they are amazing Podcasts and Steve is a super smart man.

 

Those stories are great and amazing to hear but, at least to me, they don't feel like they could be easily replicated. Most industry have a set path you follow. Mostly going to school, then an internship, starting from the bottom and getting to the top. Which is a lot like the game industry but in most studios there isn't a clear bottom.

[Impossidog]

It is ten million times more important to have a good portfolio than it is to have a degree. Someone with a good portfolio and no degree will beat someone with not as good a portfolio and a degree every time.

 

This seems to be the thing I hear from a lot of people, I talked to Anthony Burch a bit recently and his story about getting into the industry is nuts. But it came down to he had clear examples of his talent.

 

This thread has helped me a lot guys, I am extremely thankful.

 

Also Tycho are you in the industry? I get the impression you have some battle scars.

[TychoCelchuuu]

Nope! Never have been and god willing never will be. Although I guess technically now that I run a review site, I'm a games journalist.