melmer

Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

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I didn't read into it quite that far. What I got from the eye color change was more of a "since you killed the Black Hand, you become the new one" sort of thing. I'll have to watch the ending again when I get the chance and reply back with more.

 

Could certainly be. I found re-watching the beginning to be the most interesting, followed by the CG cinematics (which, are in the Extras menu somewhere).

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Nope.

 

Sauron is accounted for during this time period. He also does not have nearly the power to sustain a physical form like that for the entire length of Talion's wraith life. Further, he does invade the consciousness of the Black Hand in the confrontation with Talion, which accounts for him during the game.

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Ok, so where's Sauron at during the years of the game, other than "returned to Mordor" as the game states at the beginning? And why does he lack the power? As I said, I don't really know what's in the official side story and I'm just going off what's presented in-game, so I was hoping to learn some of these facts through discussion. I tried to look it up and found the wiki here: http://shadowofmordor.wikia.com/wiki/Sauron

 

He isn't bound to the tower yet, as Celebrimbor establishes is a small dialog which was something of the effect as "if we kill him, we can bind Sauron to the tower." Right? (Might be mis-remembering, and can't find that reference)

 

"He can only take physical form with the ring or if bound to Celebrimbor," which, given my take, he is at the beginning of the game. It's the same logic/reason why he could appear when the Black Hand takes Celebrimbor allowing Sauron to manifest; if Celebrimbor is bound to Sauron at the beginning of the game, then... that's just him.  If he can do one, he could do the other.

 

If I understand your idea correctly, you think the Black Hand's orange glow represents Sauron's ghost presence or just influence, which then manifests in physical form when he gets Celebrimbor during the "boss fight"? And this possession gets passed to Talion during the fight, the same way Celebrimbor jumps back to Talion, too? And that in the original casting of the spell, The Black Hand casts it on Talion but then they escaped and get away before he can just take Celebrimbor?  It's possible, but that seems like a weird use of imagery and inconsistent themes. Eye glow means one established definition in all backstory uses, but then a new thing the one time it gets used at the end of the game? All of Celebrimbor's backstory is about him being tricked; it feels a bit more like he's being tricked again. It's the only reason for Sauron to resurrect this character. And doesn't dismiss the small things, like why "Talion" keeps the smithing hammer but discards the rest.

 

As a master of trickery, I was waiting for the Black Hand to do some kind of trickery during the course of the game. Seems a bit odd that they'd build that up but then never have him perform any deception? As I try to establish, the game begins with Celebrimbor's perspective in a spell cast by the Black Hand, so how much of the flashback's Talion shows you can you really trust? It's another video game where you are literally the amnesiac hero, although in this case you are also an arrogant, asshole elf.

 

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Wow, that's some deep insight into a Lord of the Rings video game. I think I skipped pretty much every cut scene in the game, the story was so uninteresting to me, and Talion is a total jackass!

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That seems to be the trend with games these days. The lead is a total jackass but if you analyze it, it's actually a critique or there are "reasons".  But most leave it too ambiguous or open ended for I have no idea. Like they all want to be the spinning top in Inception.

 

I miss the games of the late 90's or early 00's where, if there was any kind of twist, the game did it near the end and then had you play a few more or a dozen hours. ie, every Bioware game up to ME2. Then you don't get things like the Far Cry 3 writer coming out and saying things like "you guys didn't get it but whatever." It was interesting to interpret the ending this way, find no one else really did, and then need to type it all up, but I'd much rather the game actually just told the main, actionable plot line of story rather than infer it. Save that stuff for the sidelines (like Planescape Torment and Kotor2 did a great job of this).

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I picked this game up in the Steam sale. At first I thought that I would not enjoy the fact that you are constantly in a hostile territory, but since the stealth is so forgiving and since you soon become immensely powerful, I have had a great time with the game. I'm still not too keen on the setting, but the gameplay is simply excellent.

 

Now for my question, which is basically "what the fuck am I supposed to do with that?" I'm in brand the warchiefs phase, and one of those fuckers is invulnerable to stealth, ranged, as well as combat attacks + finishers (combat master), and is resistant to beasts and can kill them easily (monster slayer). In addition to that he has a bunch of scary-sounding combat strengths. His only fear is that of burning.

 

How am I supposed to kill or brand him? (I haven't tried attacking him yet, but I doubt that he will be located in an explosive barrel storage room.)

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The most obvious suggestion I can think of would be to try and lure him near a fire or barrel and shoot that if at all possible.  If that's not an option, you might try branding a small army of followers to take with you when you do fight him.  No matter what their strengths are, very few chiefs can withstand being attacked by a mob.  The tricky part with that will be branding him while he's weak before one of your minions straight up kills him, something that's happened to me many times.

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I believe you can brand any panicked character, so as soon as you catch him on fire I think you can jump him and brand him then. If you have the extra-explosive arrow perk thing, camp fires and grog barrels explode pretty big.

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The most obvious suggestion I can think of would be to try and lure him near a fire or barrel and shoot that if at all possible.  If that's not an option, you might try branding a small army of followers to take with you when you do fight him.  No matter what their strengths are, very few chiefs can withstand being attacked by a mob.  The tricky part with that will be branding him while he's weak before one of your minions straight up kills him, something that's happened to me many times.

 

Thanks! If I'm able to set him on fire, then what? I know that he will try to run away, but does he also lose his strengths and/or become instantly brandable or something? Because him running away is not going to help if I still can't damage him (I think?).

 

Also, is there a way to instantly repeat warchief missions where the chief is accidentally killed and not branded?

 

EDIT: Dewar, oh that is good news.

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How am I supposed to kill or brand him? (I haven't tried attacking him yet, but I doubt that he will be located in an explosive barrel storage room.)

 

You can get him promoted to warchief if you order an already-branded warchief to attack him, and then execute your warchief at the confrontation event. (There's a talent for this.)

Once he's a warchief, you can ensure all his bodyguards are branded and attack him with 10+ allies ready to turn on him. Ideally, you'll pick captains that are not afraid of fire, though it might be worth doing all the bow missions so you can use the fire arrows hit streak to put him into a panicked state without a nearby explosion.

The nemesis system and surrounding traits are so cool.

Edit: Reading again, I see he's already a warchief.  :getmecoat  Your best bet is probably just stacking the deck way in your favor and using fire arrows.

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Characters that are invulnerable to melee, weirdly, are only invulnerable to YOUR melee attacks. Brand orcs nearby and make them fight for you, and the Warchief will not be invulnerable to their attacks. I think this applies for ranged attacks as well.

Edit: Also, yes, fear of burning will turn his icon green when he's lit on fire. You should be able to grab him and finish him from that state.

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Oh nice! Thanks guys!

 

The nemesis system is weird but really interesting.

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Thanks! If I'm able to set him on fire, then what? I know that he will try to run away, but does he also lose his strengths and/or become instantly brandable or something? Because him running away is not going to help if I still can't damage him (I think?).

 

Also, is there a way to instantly repeat warchief missions where the chief is accidentally killed and not branded?

 

EDIT: Dewar, oh that is good news.

 

When a chief is subjected to his weakness, he will instantly flee in terror (I believe this will trump any kind of rage/strength as well).  His health bar should turn green and you'll get the little camera zoom animation showing him fleeing.  At that point, no matter what his health is, he becomes grabable and brandable until he escapes.  If you have the pin in place ability, you can shoot him in the leg to prevent him from running away (not sure if being immune to ranged attacks still applies while they're terrorized).

The reason I didn't suggest fire arrows before was because of his immunity to ranged attacks.

If he does die, then a new chief should be promoted in his place and you can go after that guy.  If the guy who takes his place is already branded, then you're done!  FYI, there's an achievement for getting killed by someone, then helping him become warchief before you get your revenge.

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The reason I didn't suggest fire arrows before was because of his immunity to ranged attacks.

Hmm, I guess I assumed they'd still catch on fire, even if the arrow itself didn't do any damage. Not sure if that's the case, though.

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Hmm, I guess I assumed they'd still catch on fire, even if the arrow itself didn't do any damage. Not sure if that's the case, though.

 

I THINK they're completely immune to the damage (because they usually deflect or block the arrow) including the fire but I'm not 100% sure.

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probably easier to brand his bodyguard and have him promoted by killing the warchief with the aforementioned mob.

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You don't always get a mob with the Betrayal events. I had one trigger where it was just the Warchief and his 2 bodyguards on a bit of coastline overlooking the ocean. Luckily, I'd already turned both bodyguards, but there was no mob to back them up.

Also, I didn't realize about the trophy for making a revenge target the new warchief before taking him out. I've already set most of that scenario up, so I might as well kill that guy and let his bodyguard who I've also branded ascend.

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Also, I didn't realize about the trophy for making a revenge target the new warchief before taking him out. I've already set most of that scenario up, so I might as well kill that guy and let his bodyguard who I've also branded ascend.

 

I only died a handful of times while playing (I think like 3) and for that one I had to basically stand there and let him kill me in order to get it.  It was kind of fun to be a sort of guardian angel from the shadows, helping this lowly grunt ascend the ranks to warchief.  Then I shoved my knife into his neck.

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Man, I'm going back and playing Assassin's Creed for the first time (the only AC game I've played since the original) and Shadow of Mordor has spoiled me rotten. In Shadow, I almost always run up the wall the way I want to, almost always get the stealth kill when I want to, and generally feel bad ass. In AC, I'm always running half way up walls and then falling down instead of grabbing, jumping to another perch and falling right through, and sneaking up behind guys and never even getting an assassination prompt. Don't even get me started on the actual combat mechanics. Shadow of Mordor is back to being my GOTY.

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Now for my question, which is basically "what the fuck am I supposed to do with that?" I'm in brand the warchiefs phase, and one of those fuckers is invulnerable to stealth, ranged, as well as combat attacks + finishers (combat master), and is resistant to beasts and can kill them easily (monster slayer). In addition to that he has a bunch of scary-sounding combat strengths. His only fear is that of burning.

 

How am I supposed to kill or brand him? (I haven't tried attacking him yet, but I doubt that he will be located in an explosive barrel storage room.)

 

This turned out to be the easiest mission in the whole game so far. I branded one of his bodyguards, killed the other bodyguards, launched the betrayal mission, and watched the branded bodyguard beat the living shit out of the warchief. The bodyguard didn't take any damage and I didn't have to move an inch. Weird!

 

My army is now complete, I guess!

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Can someone please explain how to launch a betrayal mission? I never finished this game and decided to get back to it. Well, I've got 3 warchiefs left to brand, and they keep dying on me. For some reason it's much easier to murder them than to grab their face for a few seconds.

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The easiest way is to brand one of their bodyguards, then, while still holding his frightened face, dominating him (I don't remember if that is the correct prompt), and choosing his warchief as the target. This unlocks a betrayal mission somewhere in the map. If you have dominated one of the bodyguards already but haven't given him a mission/target, there should be mission marker in the map that says something like "This and that is waiting your orders." Go there, grab him, and order him to betray the warchief. 

 

I didn't try making a random captain a warchief's bodyguard, so I don't know how that mechanic actually works.

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Can someone please explain how to launch a betrayal mission? I never finished this game and decided to get back to it. Well, I've got 3 warchiefs left to brand, and they keep dying on me. For some reason it's much easier to murder them than to grab their face for a few seconds.

The easiest way is to brand one of their bodyguards, then, while still holding his frightened face, dominating him (I don't remember if that is the correct prompt), and choosing his warchief as the target. This unlocks a betrayal mission somewhere in the map. If you have dominated one of the bodyguards already but haven't given him a mission/target, there should be mission marker in the map that says something like "This and that is waiting your orders." Go there, grab him, and order him to betray the warchief. 

 

I didn't try making a random captain a warchief's bodyguard, so I don't know how that mechanic actually works.

 

Nappi's right. The prompts on the XBox controller are A to dominate and then Y to command. You can send any captain on a mission to a warchief to become a bodyguard, then send them on another mission to the same warchief to betray said warchief. Both have to be completed as on-map missions. You can also just stack a warchief's bodyguards with your men and then hit up on the directional pad during a confrontation to have them turn on him, if it's the achievement that you're shooting for.

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You can also use the command function to order a warchief to randomly attack anyone on the map. The UI for all that is kind of weird, as Nappi mentions, since it all just spawns a mission somewhere on the map. For it to actually happen you have to go watch, so you can interfere if necessary.

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This is driving me insane. All the lower-tier captains either die too easily or I get stuck in the middle of 50+ Uruk and can't brand the damn fools.

 

I'm up to 3 branded warchiefs after about an hour or more of play. I got so frustrated on the last attempt to brand this dumb captain who always has a half-dozen hunters surrounding him that I quit the game.

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