Idle Thumbs 122: Mario's Picnic

[Jake]

Idle Thumbs 122:

Mario's Picnic

Things all started so well. We're joined by Mark of the Ninja's Nels Anderson and the Internet's Olly Moss for a lovely vacation that is sure to be ruined.

Games Discussed: Mark of the Ninja, The Last of Us, Netrunner, Magic: The Gathering - Duels of the Planeswalkers 2013, Ticket to Ride, Far Cry 2, Far Cry 3, Grand Theft Auto V

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[thestalkinghead]

it's cool chris, we don't listen or care about what you say

[Chris]

it's cool chris, we don't listen or care about what you say

What the hell is this about?!

[tberton]

I think he's sarcastically referring to your worry about commenting on AAA games.

 

Anyway, it's awesome to here Nels talk about Netrunner because I just played in a Netrunner tournament yesterday. I also placed 5th, but only out of about 20. It's such a fucking great game. On the comment about high-level play and bluffing, it does get tougher because the card pool is small enough that a highly-skilled Runner can know exactly what cards the Corp can activate at any point. They won't know what specifically is coming up, but they have enough knowledge to know what to be scared of. Also, I think there probably is an imbalance favouring the Runner, at least with the current card pool (although the latest expansion pack seems to mitigate that) but it's only present at very high level play, so it shouldn't really concern most players.

 

Nels, you should totally start a thread so that we can geek out about this.

[Henroid]

The reveal of why Sean objected to the baby / pillow situation made me laugh so loud I woke people up. That was incredible.

[singlespace]

What the hell is this about?!

 

You remember 1991? Third grade, second period, just before recess when you thought no one was looking? Yeah, well thestalkinghead was looking and he remembers.

[Latrine]

Regarding Chris's false ending to Last of Us there's actually a kind of neat ending cutscene if you hit a fail state at the very end of the game that has a similar effect. 

 

Edit: Changed video to a link so it doesn't spoil the end of the game, sorry about that. LINK

[tberton]

Also, if anybody actually wants to help fight malaria, I recommend the Against Malaria Foundation. They distribute insecticide-treated nets, which are proven to drastically reduce rates of malaria infection, among people in poor African communities. They are GiveWell.org's number one rated charity and do a fantastic job of staying transparent. If you've got the money, donate to them. Do it for Far Cry 2 (by which I mean, do it to save people's lives.)

[Argobot]

I agree that most video game endings feel largely unsatisfying, but I don't necessarily believe that ending dissatisfaction is limited to games. Most books -- even great books -- have passing to mediocre endings. I find the ending to often be the most uninteresting, if not the most unimportant part of a story. It's usually not a problem, unless the fiction tries to set up a SHOCKING, BIG ending where ALL QUESTIONS WILL ANSWERED. The momentum is already against the writer when it comes to the ending, putting more pressure on pulling it off basically guarantees that you will fail. But that's the general structure that most video games follow -- a steady build to a melt your face off conclusion -- and that's why most video game endings are bad.

[Problem Machine]

... I kind of really don't want to have the ending of tLoU spoiled for me, and you haven't provided a timestamp or anything I can skip to. :\

And it looks like people are discussing it without spoiler tags here too, so... awesome?

[thestalkinghead]

What the hell is this about?!

you were worried people took your criticism of games too seriously, and i made a bad joke to reassure you, which was bad (i just typed it as i was listening so i didn't really think about it)

[Lyman]

... I kind of really don't want to have the ending of tLoU spoiled for me, and you haven't provided a timestamp or anything I can skip to. :\

And it looks like people are discussing it without spoiler tags here too, so... awesome?

I'm also waiting for a time stamp to skip to so I don't get spoiled. Luckily I didn't read any spoilers while skimming through the thread.

[Latrine]

Regarding card games, Blizzard's Hearthstone is actually a really interesting implementation of simulating card game interactions. They do things like showing your opponent's cursor so you can see what cards they're considering playing and on which part of the board.

 

Also I think pro Magic players play MTG Online rather than Duels of the Planeswalker which I think has a much messier UI but is a more accurate representation of the entire card game.

[SecretAsianMan]

I'll take the blame for the poor execution of the PAX meetup since it was kinda sorta maybe my idea (although I think the fact that Jake tweeted about it might have had something to do with it as well...).

 

Also replacement Nerds Rope will be forthcoming.  And yes Sean, the reactor is still reacting.

[Jake]

Sorry I tweeted.

[giohas]

About playing board/card games online, the guys at Wolfire have an interesting take on it:

http://www.wolfire.com/desperate-gods

It's one of their neat little projects they did for a gamejam or something, and it's sort of similar to Receiver in the way it takes things to an impractical extreme.

[Latrine]

They stop talking about game endings at about 30m20s. Last of Us specific spoilers probably end much earlier than that but it's hard to figure out exactly where.

[Twig]

Sorry I tweeted.

WAY TO GO JAKE

[CaptainFish]

Anyone got that The Last of Us discussion end timestamp?

[Gormongous]

Anyone got that The Last of Us discussion end timestamp?

 

Specifics are done after 26:10 or so. Like Latrine said, they continue to talk about endings in general for five more minutes after that, some of which discussion conveys a general positive/negative impression of the ending to The Last of Us in particular.

[CaptainFish]

Specifics are done after 26:10 or so. Like Latrine said, they continue to talk about endings in general for five more minutes after that, some of which discussion conveys a general positive/negative impression of the ending to The Last of Us in particular.

Thanks a bunch!

[melmer]

Games slowing down on purpose. Cave bullet hell shooters would slow down to a crawl when there was like 300 bullets on screen because the arcade machine just couldn't handle it. Then, when these games get ported over to consoles and iPhones they have to create fake slow down so it feels the same

Dat feel

At about the 30sec mark

[melmer]

There's been a lot of Original/Alternate storyline for the last of us articles flying about a few weeks ago and i never had a chance to read them...

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/08/31/elephants-singing-and-the-alternate-storyline-of-the-last-of-us.aspx

Also, Sean now that you've finished it i'd recommend having a look at all the now unlocked concept art on the game disk. It looks like it could've ended up a lot more 'video gamey'.

As for Witcher 2, i struggled to remember which magic power was which for quite a few hours, it's even worse when you are upgrading them

[feelthedarkness]

Quick notes on Witcher 2, which I love:

 

1) I don't think it would be a great "Thumbs Game." In most ways it's a straight forward narrative fantasy RPG with little systematic activity. There are some neat choices, but they are explicit narrative ones, and I feel that IT generally hates that kind of gaming. (Even though it's also the games they actually make. har har 1 luv.)

 

2) The tutorial was patched in for the Expanded Edition, and not something you ran into in the initial version. Both Witchers 1 & 2 got a free, and comprehensive, upgrade/polish passes almost a year after their releases. One of my favorite qualities of the eastern euro games is their near hostility to the player. "Here, we made this, YOU figure it out." It's a fun mystery! 

[Korax]

I quite liked the ending of The Last of Us, but had a problem with the last bit of gameplay before it.

 

I spent most of the game trying to be as non-lethal as possible. Unless given a good reason (no other option, enemies being actively lethal to me, you can only kill the zombies) I would try to stealth through everything and only choke people out if I needed to neutralize them. I eventually got to a point where, in areas crowded with hostile enemies, I would take down most of them by whipping a brick at their head and then quickly choking them out as they were dazed, then going and finding another brick/bottle and repeating. Then there's that last bit of game.

 

I've killed a building full of commandos, but they were trying to kill me, so that's more or less justified, and I get to the scientists preparing to operate on Ellie. One brandishes a scalpel at me, intent on keeping me from taking her, but it's understandable and he isn't actively threatening my life. I pull out the brick that I've been carrying this whole time, throw it at his head, and it smashes against an unflinching wall. I try moving towards him, hoping that maybe I'll just get a takedown prompt, but he slashes me and I step back. The only thing I can do now is to draw my gun and put a bullet in his face. He slumps to the ground and one of the other scientists shouts something about me being a monster. If it had been in a cutscene and I had no personal control over it, it would have been fine, but giving me the appearance of choice and then criticizing me for performing the one action I'm able to do because the rules changed arbitrarily is bullshit.