Plants vs Zombies 2: It's About Time

[toblix]

This game looks really good and plays well, but it has one terrible flaw. That is to say, I have one terrible problem with it. Everyone has probably heard by now how this is the epitome of free-to-play; it's free, and there are buttons for paying you way through obstacles on virtually every screen you see. There are a lot of closed doors and portals, and each one can be unlocked either by collecting stars/coins by playing, or just paying some dollars. It's not very subtle about it either: it lets you reach the portal from the first world to the next one quite easily, letting you collect a handful of stars along the way. Then it makes you click on the portal, which has two buttons: one for unlocking with money, the other for unlocking with stars. The latter is disabled, because the few stars you got don't even come close to the number required to open the portal. Then, if you don't pay, it zooms back out to the first world map and starts adding stars to all the levels you just played. The game is saying «Look at all this stuff you have to do if you don't pay.»

 

The additional stars aren't problematic at all – they're fun, challenging variations, and they're the actual reason you got the game in the first place. However, instead of presenting them as such, they're given to you almost as punishment for not paying up. But that's not even my big problem with the game – paying some dollars to skip to the next world is an expected feature, and the consequences are apparent. My big problem with the game is that it's selling plants and mechanics; not for in-game money, but for real money only. This time they're not selling you ways of "accelerating" the game, like the typical F2P option of being able to buy in-game money for real money. They're keeping huge parts of the game behind a crazy paywall, and if you're ever stuck or struggling with a level, you're left wondering how they designed and balanced it. Should you have bought the sun bonus thing by now? Do you need to buy another plant? If so, which one? The colorful PopCap aesthetic and tone of good-hearted, quirky, casual fun has been smeared by the dirty, sticky handprints of a thousand clawing money-grubbing paws frantically reaching for your pocket at every turn without regard to the actual game. I really hope PvZ 2 represents the apex of this gross trend.

[TheLastBaron]

As someone who got into tower defense games through Warcraft 3 I don't get anything out of games without maze building. If someone made a standalone Wintermaul game I would buy it so fast. Maybe Valve will someday add custom games to Dota 2.

[devilscurls]

I agree toblix.

 

I bought the first game for my Mac, then on iPhone and iPad, so I don't have a problem paying for it, but $3 for a plant just seems silly. 

 

If the had a $20 for the lot pack I might be tempted, but there is a reasonable chance that some of the plants would make the game substantially easier (like the potato and torchwood), which means I would be paying to make a game that is already too easy even less challenging.

 

I feel like Valve got it right with DotA2 being free to play and then charging for cosmetic tweaks, but PvZ2 just left me feeling a bit dirty.  

[Sno]

I have a lot of problems with microtransaction-based games, but one of the biggest ones is that it sort of breaks the implicit contract the designer makes with the player. It's an abuse of the idea that a game, as designed, is an experience meant to be enjoyed.

If you can pay your way through the game, they are nakedly exposing it as a grind meant to psychologically wear you down, there is no longer even the pretense of a enjoyable progression loop. There is a carrot being dangled, a wall is placed in front of you, and you can pay a couple bucks to break through it for your reward. The game is actually about how long you'll go before you choose to pay.

I find the whole microtransaction trend pretty grotesque, bleeding money out of addictive personalities they're conditioning to keep paying. It seems like a lot of people want to believe that the one percent of people who are being pumped to keep these games afloat are all eccentric millionaires, but that really isn't likely, is it? The evidence is rather contrary to it. (Regardless, the industry calls these people "whales".)

There's a lot of uncomfortable parallels with gambling, especially in games where the rewards for the microtransactions are randomized. Hell, it's arguably worse, because there is literally no material gain even when you "win".

[thestalkinghead]

so some plants are actually pay real money only WTF, i thought people were saying it was a good example of FTP, that is exactly the reason FTP games suck, FUCK PVZ2

[Tanukitsune]

Goddamit, I was relatively excited about PVZ 2 but after reading this, there I no way I'm ever buying or playing this game... Popcap was bought by Zynga or EA or one "those" kinda of companies, right? 

 

I really hope it's this and it's not Popcap think this is OK.

[TurboPubx-16]

Apart from the microtrasactions, I think the gameplay itself is a big step down. Basically, there is a bunch more tapping of the screen which amounts to a bunch more gimmicky busy work. I've heard a lot of good things about PvZ2 on Gamers With Jobs and Rebel FM and in those cases I'm pretty sure they were talking about the iPad version; on the iPhone there is so much extra tapping that my fingers obscure the screen to the point where I am missing a lot of the actual game, in addition to my sore hands.

 

There is now plant food to pick up which can be used to temporary power up a plant. You have to tap to pick those up, tap a bar at the bottom to select one, and then tap a plant to use it. The plant food is given out like candy and there are obvious moments in a level where you are supposed to use it.

 

There are enemies that steal your sun. You have to tap the evil sun to turn it good again, then tap it again to collect it.

 

There are new abilities like swiping and pinching that you use to clear zombies with incredible ease. I hate doing these moves, especially the pinching (I basically have to cram my finger tips together to get it to work). 

 

It feels like they added a pile of -1 + 1.5 's to the gameplay equation: the enemy gets some small advantage and you are given a slightly stronger solution to it. It used to be, you have plants and they have zombies; now it's, you have plants and they have zombies but now they have ten zombies in one lane but you used plant food to nullify that but now they are stealing your sun but you tapped your fingers red and you got it back and now there are so many fucking zombies but you swiped them off the screen oh shit my hands hurt too much to pick up that coin and it's blinking out of existence wait... this is what this game looks like under my fingers? I only caught a few glimpses in the whole battle.

[Coods]

As someone who got into tower defense games through Warcraft 3 I don't get anything out of games without maze building. If someone made a standalone Wintermaul game I would buy it so fast. Maybe Valve will someday add custom games to Dota 2.

 

Those Hero Line customs that involve defending your stuff while sending creeps to the other team via gold would be perfect for Dota 2. 

 

The PVZ 2 faux-F2P concept is really just an easier way to have unsuspecting players buy shit, because they can't call it what it actually is now: a demo. It's funny what lengths people will go to to achieve a weird abstract victory over some pixel zombies.

[granderojo]

The most depressing thing about PvZ2 to me is that they're doing a 'timed exclusive' on iOS. Way to miss the zeitgeist entirely popcap. Most of the apps that sell poorly on Android that are multiplatform sell poorer than the iOS version not because of piracy or android users not wanting to buy apps, it's because of word of mouth. Can't wait until sometime this Fall I get to experience the disappointment of having to replay content to move on, until then I can be disappointed that Popcap decided my market wasn't worth bothering with until later.

[SecretAsianMan]

What I find absurd about a lot of freemium mobile games is the idea that $4.99 is too much to pay for a mobile game, but you have the option to spend $100 in in-game purchases.  And even THAT isn't enough to unlock everything.

[Flynn]

Tom Francis's sums it up for me: https://twitter.com/Pentadact/status/371667340347203584

This is my most common problem with F2P. I don't know how your game should be balanced! Tell me what advantages I should have

 

The sad thing is that by the accounts I have heard PvZ 2 is quite generous and avoids almost all the typical f2p bullshit.  The entire game can be completed without purchasing anything, without huge difficulty spikes that require money to pass like in Candy Crush, or buying pulls on a slot machine with real money, etc.

 

But even when f2p games are not abusive... what they can't get around is that it is an unpleasant experience to be constantly evaluating real money financial transactions in game.  I don't want to do that while I play.

 

The only way I can somewhat tolerate f2p games is to pretend there are no purchase options and whatever the game is, is.  By ruling it out entirely it's not on my mind while playing.

[SecretAsianMan]

Isn't there a way to turn off in-app purchases in iOS?  Would that hid the annoying bullshit and make the game at least somewhat better to play?  I have Android, which I know can guard that stuff with a PIN but I don't think it hides it completely.

[gregbrown]

The most depressing thing about PvZ2 to me is that they're doing a 'timed exclusive' on iOS. Way to miss the zeitgeist entirely popcap. Most of the apps that sell poorly on Android that are multiplatform sell poorer than the iOS version not because of piracy or android users not wanting to buy apps, it's because of word of mouth. Can't wait until sometime this Fall I get to experience the disappointment of having to replay content to move on, until then I can be disappointed that Popcap decided my market wasn't worth bothering with until later.

Where's your evidence that lower willingness to pay isn't the case? Overall store revenue is lower on Google Play too.

[thestalkinghead]

the ridiculous thing is that i would have bought PVZ2 if it was a real game, but i never buy anything in a FTP game, the whole thing i don't like about FTP games is the motivation behind the design isn't "how fun can we make this so people want to keep playing" it's "how irritating can we make the game so that people feel like they need to purchase in game items" but for me spending money is always gonna be more irritating in a FTP game than replaying levels

[toblix]

I bought PvZ and loved it. It had a good balance of simplicity and addictiveness (not a word?!) and I actually ended up finishing it through many small sessions on my phone. This game I'm not spending an øre on, though, so in my case they made a bad call. I'm not going to be surprised when they report having earned two hundred thousand million dollars on it, though.

[thestalkinghead]

I bought PvZ and loved it. It had a good balance of simplicity and addictiveness (not a word?!) and I actually ended up finishing it through many small sessions on my phone. This game I'm not spending an øre on, though, so in my case they made a bad call. I'm not going to be surprised when they report having earned two hundred thousand million dollars on it, though.

yeah mobile gaming profit isn't about quality it's about addictiveness and micro transactions

[Castle Greycat]

I have been playing PVZ2 and really enjoying it. The gameplay itself is fun and a logical step from the first game. Enough has changed to justify the ''2" in the title, yet all the things that made the first game worth playing are still there.

I wonder how common is my reaction to the IAPs. Judging from this and other threads, most people either pay as they play or boycott the game, with a few ignoring the hooks entirely.

I have found myself actively enjoying the meta-game that EA have created, perversely even more that the 'game' itself. PVZ2 has become the simple game which I am playing whilst pitching wits against all the psychological tricks being employed to extract my money. This level is hard and I could pay to make it easier, becomes a challenge of how I can beat it without paying.

My sense of achievement for beating a world for free is actually greater than the sense of achievement of simply beating the world.

In this sense the aggressive IAPs are counter productive, I would have happily paid £7 or whatever for the game as a straight up purchase. I would also have paid for flavour content in a free game, just on principal that I have enjoyed it and want to give something back to the developers so they can keep developing.

Has anyone else found that refusing to pay has become a game in itself?

[Twig]

I've definitely approached F2P games like that in the past, but after a fashion it just becomes obvious that I would enjoy myself more if I wasn't being bombarded by IAP ads constantly and if I wasn't forced to grind out some arbitrary currency to proceed.

[TurboPubx-16]

I recently reached level 112 of Candy Crush and decided that this is the moment where I cannot possibly beat the level without being very lucky or spending money on boosts. I was more than happy to pay $1 for fifteen more levels over and over again. By making this level crazy difficult they've actually lost out on money from me. I know that doesn't matter to them.

[JonCole]

I recently reached level 112 of Candy Crush and decided that this is the moment where I cannot possibly beat the level without being very lucky or spending money on boosts. I was more than happy to pay $1 for fifteen more levels over and over again. By making this level crazy difficult they've actually lost out on money from me. I know that doesn't matter to them.

 

I feel like there are a lot of instances in Candy Crush where I feel "I cannot possibly beat the level without being very lucky or spending money on boosts". Then I play that level again and again for days and luck eventually comes by and pushes me forward. And it's really, really sapping the fun out of the game.

 

I agree with pretty much everyone. It sounds like PVZ2 offends most heinously in the way of beat all these levels, and then oops you have to beat them all again in very specific ways until you're super bored of them. ORRRRRRR maybe just throw in 2 bucks. And then do that in the next world. I guess the upside is that they're not voraciously selling plants. Essentially selling game elements is so shitty because it introduces an element of "is this actually hard or is it just dicking me over so I pay for shit" that is so unpalateable. Either money-grubbing way, though, makes me not want to play your stuff at all.

 

Also, poo on iOS timed exclusives for no reason.

[Flynn]

To confirm what I have heard with my personal experience:

 

The difficulty ramp in PvZ 2 is fantastic.  Buying anything would make the game worse.

 

If you are an experienced tower defense player this game is tuned just right.  Why pay to skip the star challenges when they are the best part!  I'm having to make tough choices right from the first map and loving it.

 

I would recommend self-limiting yourself to also not spend any coins.  You can theoretically grind levels for coins, but if you pre-decide to never spend any, the game has no grinding.  Instead it's merely a question of finding and defeating the appropriate star challenges with smart play.

 

I'm on the last map and have never found myself in a spot where I couldn't progress, and this while not even spending the coins the game gives me.  Consider this third party verification that there are no bullshit Candy Crush walls in this game.  There's no energy system.  There's no loss aversion.  There's not really any of the evil free to play shit.  

 

I can't believe it worked out this way, but the vanilla game, without using coins, just happens to have the perfect difficulty progression for me and probably anyone who plays other tower defense games.  Kudos, I guess?  Weird.

[elmuerte]

I haven't played a single minute of Plans vs Zombies 2. And so far, I really don't like it. Everything is gearing up to nickle and diming the shit out of it. There's no way to win without grinding, or to pay up.

[Deneri]

I haven't played a single minute of Plans vs Zombies 2. There's no way to win without grinding, or to pay up.

 

I hear a lot of whining about how bad the F2P model in this game is coming from people who admit to not having played the game at all. Instead of poisoning the waters for the game, why don't you either play it and make an informed decision or don't play it and stop talking about it like you know anything.

[elmuerte]

[Deneri]

Yup, lots to be proud of there. Congratulations, you got me.