Jake

Idle Thumbs 120: The Spectacle Was Incredible

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lologram

that will be what the summer blockbuster comedy "holo-programs" will be commonly known as in the future, i can already imagine the holo-ads "the years funniest lologram made by the the holoprogrammer who brought you the hangover: this isn't synthohol and i married the mirror universe me"

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Sean, Rising Storm is the Pacific Theatre expansion for Red Orchestra 2. Like BF:1943 it has more interesting sound design than more typical shooters. The Marines and Imperial Army are highly asymmetrical in their abilities and weaponry. This makes weapon reports crucial low level tactical information. In a game that has friendly fire and one hit kills knowing the difference between an M1 Garand and Type 99 rifle gives lifesaving battlefield awareness.

The audio also feeds into the macro strategic layer and map flow. The maps are rolling objective based, attack/defend affairs; when A and B are captured the spawns will shift and C and D will be contested. Spawn are also wave based, meaning that there is a natural ebb and flow to the conflict. This means that the audio periodically becomes harder to read and generally more stressful, especially as Marines close in on the Japanese with their cacophonous automatic weapons. The cheapness of human life and swiftness of death also means a full blooded assault will often be stopped in its tracks, which will lead to a sudden, unsettling quietness.

I haven't even mentioned the dynamic barks and score. What I'm saying is I like the sounds the video game makes.

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I'm not at the end of the podcast yet, but...

 

Regarding "video game" as term: What I dislike about the term is that it establishes an expectation about the tone of the content in a way that most other mediums don't. The closest equivalent I can think of is "comic book," which a lot of comic readers and creators try to distance themselves from by using more appropriate terms like "graphic novel." The biggest issue is that video games as we know them don't really act like one medium. It's more of a sliding scale that goes from "esports" (games with minimal characterization and narrative elements, instead being entirely mechanical like a sport. ie: Pac-Man CE DX)and "interactive films," which have minimal interaction in favour of telling a narrative (ie: Dear Esther) with most games falling somewhere in the middle (even most games still described as esports have distinct characterization or narrative elements, like Starcraft or DOTA). I have no idea how that would be settled.

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We should all just call video games what they really are.

 

Awesome.

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On the topics of "video games" as a phrase, I think it's natural for most media to have designations that eventually become semantically empty. "Movie" is the typical example, but how about "novel"? Does anything about long-form fiction bring to mind the concept of novelty? That said, I'm not sure I agree with Jake that media terminology is done evolving once it's accepted into mainstream speech. "Graphic novel" and "speculative fiction" are two fairly successful attempts to raise the prestige of their respective referents. I think the biggest obstacle to "video games" receiving the same facelift is more that "interactive" is such a clumsy, self-conscious word, more than anything else.

 

Anyway, good cast!

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Papers Please does really have just the best sound design. Did anyone else who's playing it notice your guy's subtle breathing that can sometimes just barely be heard in the background? It adds tremendously to the tone of bureaucratic drudgery that backdrops the often frightening and heart-wrenching scenes that play before you and in response to your actions.

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I'm not at the end of the podcast yet, but...

 

Regarding "video game" as term: What I dislike about the term is that it establishes an expectation about the tone of the content in a way that most other mediums don't. The closest equivalent I can think of is "comic book," which a lot of comic readers and creators try to distance themselves from by using more appropriate terms like "graphic novel." The biggest issue is that video games as we know them don't really act like one medium. It's more of a sliding scale that goes from "esports" (games with minimal characterization and narrative elements, instead being entirely mechanical like a sport. ie: Pac-Man CE DX)and "interactive films," which have minimal interaction in favour of telling a narrative (ie: Dear Esther) with most games falling somewhere in the middle (even most games still described as esports have distinct characterization or narrative elements, like Starcraft or DOTA). I have no idea how that would be settled.

I think there's a point where a term can and should be 'taken back.' Just because 'comic book' and 'video game' and 'nerd' have a lot of negativity permeating society doesn't mean people should abandon those terms; they should be embraced and fought for.

 

Because ultimately, why do people care so much to demonize or put down trivial things?

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I'm not talking about a societal bias, I mean that linguistically it's a completely inaccurate description. There's nothing comical about a book like Persepolis or Maus.

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I'm not talking about a societal bias, I mean that linguistically it's a completely inaccurate description. There's nothing comical about a book like Persepolis or Maus.

i have a problem with the "video" part of "video game" but am i right in saying you have a problem with the "game" part in "video game"?

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I'm not talking about a societal bias, I mean that linguistically it's a completely inaccurate description. There's nothing comical about a book like Persepolis or Maus.

 

There's nothing novels about novels anymore either.

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I like especially that this conversation is happening over the same episode where the Thumbs (briefly) complained about the revised definition of "literally."

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I like especially that this conversation is happening over the same episode where the Thumbs (briefly) complained about the revised definition of "literally."

it's literally the most stupid thing i have ever heard ;) let's just redefine the word fact so that it can also mean fiction, yes so that it can also mean no, up so it can also mean down and hot so it can also mean cold etc.

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It could be worse, you could be bogged down in a "hip-hop vs. rap" kind of nonsensical semantical nightmare. "This isn't a video game, it's an INTERACTIVE EXPERIENCE."

This is pretty off-topic, but the distinction between hip-hop and rap is actually super simple. Hip-hop is made up of "four elements," of which rapping (ie. emceeing) is one. The other three are DJing, break dancing and graffiti writing. Thus, all rap is a form of hip-hop, but not all hip-hop is rap.

 

To quote the wikipedia article on hip-hop, which actually puts it pretty succintly:

"[Hip hop] is characterized by four distinct elements, all of which represent the different manifestations of the culture: rap music (aural),turntablism or "DJing" (aural), breaking (physical) and graffiti art (visual). Despite their contrasting methods of execution, they find unity in their common association to the poverty and violence underlying the historical context that birthed the culture."

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let's just redefine the word fact so that it can also mean fiction, yes so that it can also mean no, up so it can also mean down and hot so it can also mean cold etc.

 

Also, "really" can only refer to things that are real and "very" can only refer to things that are true.

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so I just started listening, and you guys are all, "Gone Home on a stream would be bad, it would be like if you read Julian Barnes' The Sense Of An Ending aloud to a friend"

 

i've totally read The Sense Of An Ending aloud to a friend twice. it was good!

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Sean, Rising Storm is the Pacific Theatre expansion for Red Orchestra 2. Like BF:1943 it has more interesting sound design than more typical shooters. The Marines and Imperial Army are highly asymmetrical in their abilities and weaponry. This makes weapon reports crucial low level tactical information. In a game that has friendly fire and one hit kills knowing the difference between an M1 Garand and Type 99 rifle gives lifesaving battlefield awareness.

The audio also feeds into the macro strategic layer and map flow. The maps are rolling objective based, attack/defend affairs; when A and B are captured the spawns will shift and C and D will be contested. Spawn are also wave based, meaning that there is a natural ebb and flow to the conflict. This means that the audio periodically becomes harder to read and generally more stressful, especially as Marines close in on the Japanese with their cacophonous automatic weapons. The cheapness of human life and swiftness of death also means a full blooded assault will often be stopped in its tracks, which will lead to a sudden, unsettling quietness.

I haven't even mentioned the dynamic barks and score. What I'm saying is I like the sounds the video game makes.

 

I love this game and was going to bring this up. Hearing Japanese soldiers speak on the other side of a wall and giving their position away is the best.

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I love this game and was going to bring this up. Hearing Japanese soldiers speak on the other side of a wall and giving their position away is the best.

Yeah, and the sound of a banzai charge coming over the top of your trench. There's a sort of heightened melodrama to the audio which helps sell their version of the conflict.

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To the point of 'video game' being imperfect nomenclature, I don't think history will view Gone Home as being too different from a shooter. Cliff Bleszinski has talk in the past about how the guns in Gears of War are the only means the player has of touching the world. This makes it important that the weapon and bullet impact effects are as chunky and physical as possible and is why chunks of masonry fall from walls and heads explode. The basic interaction you have with the world is satisfying (and a little bit dumb.)

Gone Home is basically the same. Your only means of interacting with the world is by pick up and spinning about realistic physics objects. Fullbright obviously spent a lot of time and effort ensuring that their objects have a heft to them and collided believably. This ensures the interaction the player has the world is satisfying and grounded.

I think as the medium continues to mature and a greater number of non-violent first person games are made the argument will disappear. A video game isn't inherently challenging, narrative, 2D or 3D. It is simply a computer program you can play. What play means should be left in the hands of the developer.

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This was one of my favourite Thumbs episodes in a while. I actually don't mind the discussion of DOTA at all, especially when it's in a very detatched form such as talking about it's importance in eSports. I actually find eSports incredibly interesting, even though I very, very rarely watch any actual events and when I do I'm even less likely to have ever played the game I'm watching.

 

I've watched countless Call of Duty, LoL, DOTA and Halo 3 plays simply because I find them interesting, the drama and the skill is something that just blows my mind. In fact I'm currently staying with a guy who was the European champion of an FPS I'd never heard of called AVA and I instantly tried to draw some stories out of him even though I had no idea what the game was about. 

 

More importantly did Sean's mam actually say "fuck you Nick Breckon"? 

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I don't remember there being a podcast chat about what happened to Sean! (not that it's my business, or feel entitled to know). 

 

Are you still going to ride, or has it become verboten? 

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oh FYI, i listened to this first thing this morning as i was getting ready, i made myself a bowl of cereal and as i placed the first spoon in my mouth Jake described Sean foot as a water bag and i gagged

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