Nick Breckon

Crusader Kings II: The Triumph of Ragnar

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I think streaming at 1080p would make the text more readable. For other games it's a bad idea but with the mostly static map and UI screens should work great in in this game.

The office bandwidth doesn't support it, I think.

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stage is set for all the forest whitaker jokes next time if you prove victorious.

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After all the confusion among the Thumbs about how the de jure system works, I figured I'd just throw together a quick tutorial here. With pictures!

 

Each different piece of land in the game is a county. Each county in the game is part of a duchy. Holding a county gives you control of that piece of land. Higher titles like duchies do not give you control of land, but they do give you control of people in control of land, even if that control is often theoretical.

 

de_jure_duchies.jpg

 

Here is the de jure map of duchies in the British Isles. You can access this map mode by hitting the I key. If you remember in the game, you controlled the counties of Glamorgan and Gwent in the duchy of Deheubarth in southern Wales. Since that constitutes over 51% of the duchy, you have de facto control of the duchy, but to gain de jure control you needed to usurp the duchy title formally. Once you have de jure control, you can assert that over the rulers of the remaining counties by vassalization offers or by war, even if at any point you lose de facto control of the actual counties.

 

de_jure_kingdoms.jpg

 

Here is the de jure map of kingdoms in the British Isles. You can access this map mode by hitting the O key. Each duchy is part of a de jure kingdom. Unlike de jure duchies with their counties, you do not need 51% of a kingdom's de jure duchies to form or usurp the kingdom, only 51% of the counties that constitute those duchies. Like duchies, kingdoms give you de jure control over its counties, which you can make de facto through vassalization or war. Since, by controlling the duchy of Deheubarth, you and your vassals hold three of the eight counties, you will need two more counties to form Wales, at which point you will probably be able to usurp the duchy of Gwynedd anyway.

 

de_jure_empires.jpg

 

Here is the de jure map of empires in the British Isles. You can access this map mode by hitting the P key. Each kingdom is part of a de jure empire. Like de jure kingdoms with their duchies, you do not need any of the empire's de jure kingdoms or duchies to form or usurp the empire, only 80% of counties that constitute those kingdoms and duchies. However, most empires have a special requirement that must be fulfilled to create them. Usually, it involves holding a kingdom title from outside the de jure empire. All other de jure rules described above apply. Except for the Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, and the Persian Empire, none of the game's other de jure empires begin formed. They are typically seen as the endgame for most players.

 

When you click on any title shield in the game, you are sent to the Title Information screen. This screen exists for all titles, both created and uncreated. If the checkbox at the top right of that viewer labeled "De Jure" is empty, you are seeing the de facto situation of that title. The shields lined up along the top right above the checkbox show, in order from lowest to highest, the higher titles of which it is a current de facto part. The central box will contain all the de facto titles that are subordinate to the title you are viewing. You can see the overall de facto status of your realm by hitting the F key to view the "Direct Vassals" map mode. If you check the "De Jure" checkbox on the Title Information screen, you are viewing the ideal de jure situation of the title. This includes along the top right the higher titles of which it is a de jure part and in the middle the lower titles over which it has de jure claim.

 

Much of the internal political game in a mid- to large-scale kingdom is the efforts of vassals to be as close to that "ideal" de jure state as possible. Dukes will want to control all their de jure counties, by proxy through vassals they directly control if they cannot control it by themselves. If two dukes marry together into one super-duke (a very technical term), they will seek to consolidate their lands into the de jure territories of both their duchies. Hence, AI behavior is the tension between two forces: the need to expand and the need to control as much de jure territory as possible of the titles they already hold. Satisfy one and you don't really need to worry as much about the other.

 

 

EDIT: Yeah, I know. Just skim over the pedantic parts, if you can.

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It has come to my attention AI people in your dynasty will also use names that you have used when they name their children. This is both fantastic and horrible.

 

Endless Scoops'.

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Hey guys, I registered just because I've been enjoying your CKII stream, but I also wanted to let you know that Paradox announced today that Europa Universalis IV will come with a save game converter so that you can continue playing your CKII map into the 19th century.

 

I heard the guys say how cool that would be in one of the videos so I thought I'd pass it along.  Oh, and just because it's Paradox, they're also throwing in a free copy of CKII with pre-orders for EUIV.

 

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?704709-Crusader-Kings-II-Save-Converter-Announced-for-Europa-Universalis-IV

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If you have any questions on this game, I currently have 1737 hours in Crusader Kings 2. I have restored the house of Wessex, made Pomeranian woman the Queen of Denmark, Played as the House of Normandie in 867, and invaded England in 1020, made a Catalan the Emperor of the Byzantines, had a 91 year old King of Scotland, and so much more. I know the game in and out. 

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If you have any questions on this game, I currently have 1737 hours in Crusader Kings 2. I have restored the house of Wessex, made Pomeranian woman the Queen of Denmark, Played as the House of Normandie in 867, and invaded England in 1020, made a Catalan the Emperor of the Byzantines, had a 91 year old King of Scotland, and so much more. I know the game in and out. 

 

What is your favorite amount to salt a tavern-food?

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A just decision!

 

Ok, a real question now. :P I'm not totally caught up on the stream yet so maybe this is answered in that chat somewhere, but it continues to puzzle me up through Part 8.

 

Why do Chris and (particularly) Nick excitedly try to make matrilineal marriages with Every King, and become sad when the offer is preemptively spurned? As I understand it, if some girl from a goofy Irish baby-kingdom WERE to secure a matrilineal marriage with the Holy Roman Emperor, at it would mean is that any kids she had would be excluded from the Holy Roman Empire dynasty and be forced to join the Irish Baby-Kingdom dynasty instead. Would a matrilineal kid even have a claim he could press against his father's lands?

 

It seems like they just want to do it for the out-of-game prestige of denying some far-away mighty kingdom of potential heirs (and making the ruling classes of Ireland less and less Irish in the process), but am I perhaps missing a keen and critical strategic consideration?

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Ok, a real question now. :P I'm not totally caught up on the stream yet so maybe this is answered in that chat somewhere, but it continues to puzzle me up through Part 8.

 

Why do Chris and (particularly) Nick excitedly try to make matrilineal marriages with Every King, and become sad when the offer is preemptively spurned? As I understand it, if some girl from a goofy Irish baby-kingdom WERE to secure a matrilineal marriage with the Holy Roman Emperor, at it would mean is that any kids she had would be excluded from the Holy Roman Empire dynasty and be forced to join the Irish Baby-Kingdom dynasty instead. Would a matrilineal kid even have a claim he could press against his father's lands?

 

It seems like they just want to do it for the out-of-game prestige of denying some far-away mighty kingdom of potential heirs (and making the ruling classes of Ireland less and less Irish in the process), but am I perhaps missing a keen and critical strategic consideration?

 

Yes, a grandson from a matrilineal marriage to a son of the Holy Roman Emperor would be in the line of succession and have a claim to the throne, regardless of dynasty. Only Tanistry and Seniority are not dynasty-agnostic, but they both have their own pronounced weaknesses instead. Anyway, that's why chat is always asking them to do stuff like that, even though Ireland is really too small to be able to press a claim against any kingdom right now. What's more, the Holy Roman Empire is Elective, so an Irish baby is very unlikely to get many votes. I think it mostly seems like Nick's (and chat's) ambition and cupidity, rather than any realistic goal.

 

It's hard to deny that the Thumbs haven't been doing great with their marriages. They marry too much of their family within the court or to local dukes in the hopes of getting a claim, and now that they're under attack, they only have one (albeit large) ally who currently can't respond to their call to arms, for whatever reason. I say, better to use daughters to breed alliances and sons to breed claims, but I guess some people are always reaching for the brass ring.

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The purpose of matrilineal marriages is for the children of that paring to belong to the dynasty of the mother yes. Which is useful if the player has only female children or if Basque, and eldest is female. Also, why to use this type of marriage is to bring more titles into the dynasty, thus increasing the prestige of the family at large, which children get a part of at birth, and prestige is used in the scoring process. 

Also, members of a dynasty are automatically allies. Now, whether they can come into a war or not depends on certain factors. Like, if they like the other person. Also, they can if they are vassals under a common liege, such as the Dukes of Anjou and Brittany being of the same dynasty under the King of France. This also works if the characters are independent. Like a MacAlpin as King of Scotland and another MacAlpin as King of Jerusalem, with no emperor over either one of them. They are allies. If one is a vassal, then the one outside that realm. (vassalage) cannot aid, until the former member, the one that is in vassalage, breaks from that vassalage, and is independent. 

 

Children inherit the titles their parents have, which they in turn, give to their children. I believe it can last like three generations. This can be removed if they go to war, or someone on their behalf, and they lose.

 

A Kingdom, duchy, etc will still continue on, so long as the rules allow for a different dynasty to inherit. Like how seniority is different that say primogeniture. In Primo, the first born, usually male inherits despite dynasty, Seniority, it it the oldest in the dynasty itself. Be that a brother, or a far removed cousin. 

Hope that answered your question. If not tell me how I can better clarify things for you. 

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Is there any reason they're not using retinues? If they don't know about them, any reason someone hasn't told them to use them? Hidden negatives? 

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Is there any reason they're not using retinues? If they don't know about them, any reason someone hasn't told them to use them? Hidden negatives? 

 

They don't have any of the DLC. Retinues come with Legacy of Rome.

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They don't have any of the DLC. Retinues come with Legacy of Rome.

 

We have the DLC now; we just started this game without it. It's probably for the best. We still don't know what we're doing. Thanks for the post though, Gormongous.

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We have the DLC now; we just started this game without it. It's probably for the best. We still don't know what we're doing. Thanks for the post though, Gormongous.

 

If you had started in Ireland in 867 the stream probably would have ended in part 1.

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If you had started in Ireland in 867 the stream probably would have ended in part 1.

 

Yeah! I love how Ireland is Tutorial Island in 1066 and Hard Mode in 867. But hey, that's how history (in video games) goes!

 

You should play a pagan next, Nick. They don't really have claims or treaties like the Christians. It'd be much more the game you want to play.

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Best thing to do is follow Idle Thumbs on Twitter or  subscribe on Twitch so you'll get an e-mail when they go live.

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Spoiler

 

If they park their troops in Ulster surely Scottish dudes will get all messed up trying to cross and attack? I seem to remember that working for me at various points.

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They don't have any of the DLC. Retinues come with Legacy of Rome.

Ah, figured it was something like that. Strange that that the retinue tab is still in the game without it.

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how long does a game typically last? I've been chuggin along on the stream archive & it looks like they'e taken ~17 hours to play 76 years.

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could someone re-upload the save file from king brian? I'd like to see where I can take the idle thumbs dynasty but the link goes to a 404 error...

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We have the DLC now; we just started this game without it. It's probably for the best. We still don't know what we're doing. Thanks for the post though, Gormongous.

 

Also, just a quick note, but if you have all the DLC now, you'll want to disable Sunset Invasion in the launcher. The way it's coded, you're able to add it to a game in progress. There's a check in the first decade of the 1200s that locks it in, I think.

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