Jump to content
tegan

QUILTBAG Thread of Flagrant Homoeroticism

Recommended Posts

No, I was asking what language I should use for someone who was going through the process of changing genders. No mention of surgery whatsoever. You have twice now added assumptions and inflection to a question I asked so I could try and learn something and improve the way I talk.

 

I don't have the authority to speak on exact usage but I want to highlight that assumptions are bred by language choice. I'm not trying to say you're to blame. Just that this is why these language notes matter and it's important to think about them so we use terms that don't come with untoward implications and presumptions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I was asking what language I should use for someone who was going through the process of changing genders. No mention of surgery whatsoever. You have twice now added assumptions and inflection to a question I asked so I could try and learn something and improve the way I talk.

 

 

 

Following up, is that what transitioning is assumed to mean? That wasn't my understanding. Am I stumbling around that blindly?

 

No, transitioning is not assumed to mean that by itself. However, in the context of this discussion and your previous posts (e.g. "I now know that pre-op is an unacceptable term to describe a trans woman. Can I now say 'transitioning' instead?"), it took on that meaning. So far, I don't believe anything has been said to indicate the girlfriend in question is planning to get genital surgery, or even that the girlfriend is "going through the process of changing genders." So, this is in effect you making a judgement call that she is "transitioning" or "in the process of changing genders." But it's entirely possible this is a trans woman who has a penis, and her process/her transition is done. That's the context that makes both "pre-op" and "transitioning" come across as impolite.

 

So, in this case, "transitioning" is not really very polite either, unless it's how the person explicitly understands their current situation and you're aware of that. Unless that's explicitly how a particular person talks about theirself, it kind of implies you've assessed their gender performance and found it lacking/incomplete. 

 

If you know for sure that this girlfriend is considering genital surgery or otherwise says they're transitioning, that's of course fine to say and is potentially relevant information about the topic at hand. Although unfortunately it sounds like maybe the trans woman in question isn't really able to speak for herself here, and her girlfriend called her "pre-op," so maybe there's not really a good source of information on this person at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being careful about words here just alleviates some of the deeply personal pressures that seem to get talked about openly with trans people.
Some of those are highlighted here.



It's to help negate some of the shitty intrusive questions that come on. "When did you start feeling like a boy?" Etc.

 

There's more to it but I'm probably not experienced enough to get into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah there's a movement in trans issues (I can't watch the video atm) to let trans people define their gender in whatever way they wish versus positioning it as a "transition" versus taking hormones, having gender confirming procedures (facial surgery, top surgery, genital surgery, laser treatments for faces, etc). When people "transition", it's not about changing genders, but undergoing steps to present your actual gender the way you wish. But a lot of the medical establishment still requires hoops for trans people to jump through in order to be qualified as trans and transitioning has been one of those things. It shouldn't be required in order to be "really trans" vs. something you can pick and choose doing to feel more comfortable as yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way I understand it is (also) as the process of beginning to express your gender openly, which may or may not involve a lot of different things, like changing your name (or not) or wearing different kinds of clothing (or not). Considering this entire system is such a mess of arbitrary norms, it's kinda weird how we grade trans folk on their performance of honoring these weird rules.

 

I've been doing a lecture on legal gender studies recently, and one reason the professor offered for why legislation, at least around here, was more willing to make changes for trans folk than for queer folk (and did so earlier), is that their existence feels soothing to people who still strongly believe in a binary system of genders, because any kind of identity that challenges these assumptions can then be explained away as being the result of this person being "in the wrong camp" and just needing to "switch over to the other side" and then everything will work as expected.

 

That's not how it actually works, of course, but you can still kind of see those attitudes in how quick people are to judge trans people's dress and desires and whether or not they meet their own expectations. If you're cis you can dress differently than people would expect and date somebody the same gender as you and most people, I think, will just be like "that's how it is I guess". They might not be accepting of your identity, but they're probably going to accept the fact that you are who you say you are, while with trans folk people might feel like they know better than themselves whether their identity is "correct" or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering this entire system is such a mess of arbitrary norms, it's kinda weird how we grade trans folk on their performance of honoring these weird rules.

 

Yes. That's why I think this is more about basic etiquette than some complicated nuance that's just impossible to understand.

 

It's impolite to refer to a trans person you know little about as "transitioning" for the same reason it would be impolite ask a cis guy who started growing a beard and wearing backwards baseball caps more frequently if he was finally "transitioning" to at last becoming fully male. It's basically just kind of rude to assume that someone's gender presentation doesn't meet your standards and so they must be in the middle of a "transition" to reach whatever your imagined endpoint is, whether they're trans or cis.

 

On the other hand, if someone is literally transitioning and says they're transitioning and wants people to know they're transitioning (e.g. meaning that they're literally actively in the very process of a change in gender performance/identity/whatever), that's a separate issue entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what would even be left if you try to get rid of the queer parts. It was already kind of obvious here when they show him doing the same couple of guitar riffs over and over again while something else is happening in the original, presumably when they reach the songs about female characters being in love they will just be replaced with a reaction shot from the same episode stretched to three minutes in length.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Earlier this week the Supreme Court of the United States overturned a ruling made by the Alabama Supreme Court regarding the adoption rights of a LGBT couple.  The couple, identified only by their initials EL and VL, were originally both granted parental rights by the state of Georgia to the three children birthed by EL.  The couple later separated and VL moved to Alabama where she sought visitation rights to her children.  The Alabama court ruled that Georgia should not have granted VL parental rights because she was not biologically related to them.  In a unanimous decision, SCOTUS overturned the ruling saying "A state may not disregard the judgment of a sister state because it disagrees with the reasoning underlying the judgment or deems it to be wrong on the merits". 

 

While I wish something more supportive of LGBT rights had been said rather than "you can't just disagree like that", I'm still glad they overturned that shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lily Wachowski (formerly "Andy") was about to be outed by The Daily Mail, so they had to come out as trans. It's the grossest worst thing that they had to come out before they were ready. But hopefully they (I'm using gender neutral pronouns because they never use the word "woman" to describe themselves in their statement) are met with the same public love and support that Lana was met with when she came out a while back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lily Wachowski (formerly "Andy") was about to be outed by The Daily Mail, so they had to come out as trans. It's the grossest worst thing that they had to come out before they were ready. But hopefully they (I'm using gender neutral pronouns because they never use the word "woman" to describe themselves in their statement) are met with the same public love and support that Lana was met with when she came out a while back.

 

I just saw that last night, after someone referred to the siblings as the "Wachowski sisters."

 

1. The Daily Mail is horrible for doing that. Period. 

 

2. If Lily chooses to come out - and this needs to be done on her terms, as it always must - then a small part of me is warmed by the fact that there is a pair of trans sisters in Hollywood, making massive-budget, goofy-as-hell movies like Jupiter Ascending. It feels like a wonderful affront to all the bullshit "would it sell in Peoria" pandering of Hollywood, and I love that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

then a small part of me is warmed by the fact that there is a pair of trans sisters in Hollywood, making massive-budget, goofy-as-hell movies like Jupiter Ascending.

 

What I particularly enjoy is that they made both The Matrix and V for Vendetta, two of the movies most commonly appropriated by MRA dillweeds, whose hateful garbage is forever undermined by the fact that their creators clearly reject the norms they believe in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce Springsteen cancels North Carolina concert over anti-LGBTQ law

 

Republican congressman Mark Walker either was upset with the attention this generated or he was upset he didn't get to visit the concert.

Anyway, his response is disgusting. Also, it showcases that he doesn't understand what a bully is or who the bully is in this situation. And what the T in LGBTQ stands for, apparently. Or what transgender means.

"I choose to stand with our sheriffs, who support this bill, which doesn't target the LGBTQ community; it targets impostors. It's a little crazy to think sexual predators wouldn't be devious enough to pull something off if they were free to go into any bathroom they want."

Fun guy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mumford and Sons, Pearl Jam, Boston, Blue Man Group, Cirque du Soleil, Nick Jonas and Demi Lovato have also canceled performances in North Carolina, apparently.

 

And continuing the North Carolina talk, here's a couple of things people posted on the DF forums (and thereby set the clock ticking for the handful of gators there to foul the place up):

 

 

North Carolina lawmaker: 'we must fight to keep our state straight'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh God, I got into a thing with some queer customers at my store the other day. They were talking about it and they asked me "What country was the shooter from?" I told them "He lived in America" but they wouldn't let it go, like I didn't understand what they really meant. I just said "It doesn't matter, he's from here." to which they thought I meant "he's from Chicago". They said "No way. If he tried that in Chicago we would have stomped his ass down. We don't play."

 

I just stopped responding to them after that. It's not my place to tell people how to process something like this (plus I'm too cowardly to confront someone like that), but it was really gross. Luckily, for a store with a predominantly queer clientele (most our income comes from lube and adult video rentals) I haven't heard anything else like that. Which is good because we also have plenty of Muslim (and gay Muslim) customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Born if not bred American. Man, how shit have people's reactions to this attack been. It's really sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×