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QUILTBAG Thread of Flagrant Homoeroticism

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I use bi over pan for that reason but  pan acknowledges the existence  of intersex people or those who don't identify as male or female. 

 

The only reason pansexual acknowledges intersex or non-binary trans folks is because bisexuality was specifically painted as binarist and anti-trans. I know pansexuality also has old roots but there's a lot of contemporary politicking about it, but people can and should identify how they choose (there's also polysexual which indicates that there's attraction to more than one gender but isn't specific as to what genders they are)

 

Edit: Sorry, that was a little shitty/rude of me. 

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This is also the kind of hugely personal issue where I don't feel it's very productive to press language economy and talk about how there's already a word for this and that. Maybe the advantage of a seemingly new-fangled term is simply that it feels more comfortable to the person self-describing that way, and that's good enough then.

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The only issue is that the newer word has specifically been referred to as a way to detract from the former term, which has caused the issues, honestly. There's enough space for two words but the opposition is what makes things so tense at times, and largely I've only ever seen this happen on Tumblr. 

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Yeah, wasn't aimed at your comment there, and the "let people choose what they like best" thing applies equally to the arguments over why pan- is supposedly unnecessary and bi- supposedly discriminatory.

 

I always figured it just reads as "both sides of the spectrum" not "both of the two and only two genders that exist" myself.

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Man, I really wish I hadn't mentioned the Fire Emblem thing here in any sort of positive light, because basically the way Nintendo is handling their first openly gay characters is utterly reprehensible.

 

TL;DR: in Conquest version, one of your squadmates is openly lesbian. Female player characters can't romance her, but male ones can. See, she feels that her lesbianism is a weakness that makes her less of a woman, so dudetagonist drugs her drink with magic powder that makes her temporarily see men as women and women as men, which is used as the cornerstone in what is essentially magic gay conversion therapy. In the end, she falls for him, because of course she does.

 

This might actually be the worst thing Nintendo has ever done.

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Magic gay conversion therapy.

 

That sentence seems so ridiculous that I presume I should be laughing at it, but actually it's just sad.

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That's the fucking worst. Good lord.

What kind of attitude does Japanese culture in general have towards being gay? I'm totally unfamiliar with that.

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It's not great, but I think as with most things, it's the Old People keeping change from happening. Also add in a pinch of lack-of-activism. That is just kind of a guess from what little I know, though. My knowledge is by no means extensive.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Japan

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That's the fucking worst. Good lord. What kind of attitude does Japanese culture in general have towards being gay? I'm totally unfamiliar with that.

 

Mediocre at best. There's no religious opposition against it like there is in the west, but you can't get married and things like hospital visitation rights and co-renting are only being considered in any part of the country as of this February. There's also no laws against gay sex, but the law also considers gay people unable to have real sex, calling it "an imitation." Transgender rights go so far as being able to legally change your gender, but there's still huge problems with it. There's a mention on that wiki page of a transgender woman prisoner who, even having had sexual reassignment surgery, was still being held in a men's prison and treated as male.

 

Culturally, Japan is really weird about representation. Someone I knew once positioned it as "Japan is fine with putting gay people in fiction, because Japan regards gay people as fictional." You see a surprising number of LGBT characters in things, but their sexuality is often played for laughs, treated as a teenage phase, considered perversion, or fetishized for a straight audience. I'm a sucker for trying almost any LGBT-focused Japanese media I can get my hands on, and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've actually seen a happy adult gay couple in anime, manga, or Japanese games. In terms of public figures, homosexuality is the kind of thing that is seen as sort of a... personal quirk? Not necessarily disliked, but you don't want to be gay or have relatives that are transgender or otherwise be connected to it. There's very much an idea that being LGBT is a novelty. The only LGBT celebrity mentioned on that wiki page is Matsuko Deluxe, which is kinda like if the most prominent LGBT celebrity in America were Divine.

 

 

 

I wanna stress though... Japanese culture be damned. This is a Nintendo thing, not a Japan thing. There's been big strides in LGBT rights in Japan in the past little while, Nintendo is an international company, and regardless of the situation it's not really a matter of their intentions being misunderstood due to a cultural barrier, it's a case of their intentions being fundamentally fucking disgusting.

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It strikes me as especially problematic because of the whole Tomodachi Life thing. After (finally) acknowledging the problem and saying that they would work to be better about it in the future, something like that almost seems malicious.

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Man, I really wish I hadn't mentioned the Fire Emblem thing here in any sort of positive light, because basically the way Nintendo is handling their first openly gay characters is utterly reprehensible.

 

TL;DR: in Conquest version, one of your squadmates is openly lesbian. Female player characters can't romance her, but male ones can. See, she feels that her lesbianism is a weakness that makes her less of a woman, so dudetagonist drugs her drink with magic powder that makes her temporarily see men as women and women as men, which is used as the cornerstone in what is essentially magic gay conversion therapy. In the end, she falls for him, because of course she does.

 

This might actually be the worst thing Nintendo has ever done.

 

There was another blog post somewhere (I lost the link) that clarified the character was actually bisexual as she expresses interest toward men outside of the magical conversion bit. Although, I find it debatable whether that, or indeed her being lesbian, was really intentional on Nintendo/Intelligent Systems' part. It sounds more like the old chestnut of making a straight, "normal" character who just has a weird, kooky weakness for cute girls (which is what the translated dialog suggests to me). Which is no less reprehensible, really - especially with the way they've promoted the same-sex relationships as though it's some kind of olive branch to people who were offput by their lack of representation before - but I can't help but see it less as "a whole new low" and more as business as fucking usual.

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There was another blog post somewhere (I lost the link) that clarified the character was actually bisexual as she expresses interest toward men outside of the magical conversion bit. Although, I find it debatable whether that, or indeed her being lesbian, was really intentional on Nintendo/Intelligent Systems' part. It sounds more like the old chestnut of making a straight, "normal" character who just has a weird, kooky weakness for cute girls (which is what the translated dialog suggests to me). Which is no less reprehensible, really - especially with the way they've promoted the same-sex relationships as though it's some kind of olive branch to people who were offput by their lack of representation before - but I can't help but see it less as "a whole new low" and more as business as fucking usual.

 

Here's The Mary Sue with a good write-up of the situation, citing and dismissing interpretations that the characters isn't strictly a lesbian initially. I wish the author of the article hadn't explicitly wished for the game to be "censored," considering how loaded and misinterpreted that word's become. I'm sure GamerGate is ready, if the content is localized, to apologize for it in context and declare that SJWs have once again hysterically attacked free speech.

 

 

The only reason pansexual acknowledges intersex or non-binary trans folks is because bisexuality was specifically painted as binarist and anti-trans. I know pansexuality also has old roots but there's a lot of contemporary politicking about it, but people can and should identify how they choose (there's also polysexual which indicates that there's attraction to more than one gender but isn't specific as to what genders they are)

 

Edit: Sorry, that was a little shitty/rude of me. 

 

I have gone from identifying as bisexual to pansexual to queer in my lifetime as fashions have changed. Whenever I see "bisexual" now I actually can't help but internally respond to it as something outmoded and geriatric (this is not at all daring to criticize anyone else's identifier in particular). Like Erika Moen presents in what I consider to be the definitive word on the subject, I think the buck has to stop with one umbrella term before I reach my thirties and my fourth sexuality:

 

queer1.jpg

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I have to wonder if NOA will localize Fire Emblem to be less disgusting, or if they lack the freedom to do so, or even if they have the freedom if they'll choose not to. ):

 

Also that's a good comic. I like it.

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Maybe put that in a NSFW spoiler, Smart Jason. I'm also not really sure how I feel about Erika Moen, generally.

 

Here's The Mary Sue with a good write-up of the situation, citing and dismissing interpretations that the characters isn't strictly a lesbian initially. I wish the author of the article hadn't explicitly wished for the game to be "censored," considering how loaded and misinterpreted that word's become. I'm sure GamerGate is ready, if the content is localized, to apologize for it in context and declare that SJWs have once again hysterically attacked free speech.

 

I'd like to make note that the guy who wrote that fucking laughable defense of the game is a Gamergater, tagged the original post with Gamergate, and has been calling for Gamergate to defend Fire Emblem. Ethics in journalism, guys.

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It's fun finding out that literally every person I'd heard of with any kind of influence in social justice is too questionable to listen to. Erika Moen, now?

 

I'm looking forward to finding out how Apple Cider's co-host on Justice Points did a shitty thing once and therefore must be purged because she is impure.

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Maybe put that in a NSFW spoiler, Smart Jason. I'm also not really sure how I feel about Erika Moen, generally.

 

Far be it from me to make an impassioned defense of Erika and manvocate her innocence, but I do think it's worth noting that everything in that #problematic post is from years ago (LUG in particular in eight years old), one of which is even linked along with a sincere apology. Everyone has had growing pains and learns from their mistakes, and currently Oh Joy Sex Toy reflects her as one of the most inclusive and sensitive artists I've found. I think there's a big gap between truly toxic views that go ignored by public figures and audience and the blinders of just being one person with one life's experiences.

 

P.S. I know, poor straight white guy (and ad hominem on my part) but it's not a little mean-spirited to just straight up attack an unrelated picture of her and Matthew? Why was it necessary to link this Tumblr post of any of the chain? It adds to the overall feeling of the entire thing being unnecessarily vindictive to me.

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P.S. I know, poor straight white guy (and ad hominem on my part) but it's not a little mean-spirited to just straight up attack an unrelated picture of her and Matthew? Why was it necessary to link this Tumblr post of any of the chain? It adds to the overall feeling of the entire thing being unnecessarily vindictive to me.

 

I agree, but I linked that because it mentions some shitty things that are in that very comic and relevant to the situation at hand. I probably should have just typed up something myself though. Sorry.

 

 

It's fun finding out that literally every person I'd heard of with any kind of influence in social justice is too questionable to listen to. Erika Moen, now?

 

I'm looking forward to finding out how Apple Cider's co-host on Justice Points did a shitty thing once and therefore must be purged because she is impure.

 

You know Merus, I really hope that you eventually reach a point in your life where you realize that it's possible to assess multiple facets of a person before you come to a conclusion about their character, or decide that no conclusion is needed at all, because this shit gets real old. I don't have some grand list of who I'm "allowed" to like and who I'm not. I straight-up said that I "didn't know how to feel about her," not that I like or dislike her. I can like Moen's Oh Joy Sex Toy comics without liking some of the shitty things she's said.

I'm pretty sure we've had this exact conversation before in private, and it's still downright childish to stick your finger in your ears and ignore that pretty much everyone can and has done bad things and don't really need your help to whitewash them as perfect angels. A week ago you defended Hugh Fucking Hefner as an ally.

 

I dunno if it's just me, but your "argue with everyone on every point" schtick has gotten really irritating.

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I agree, but I linked that because it mentions some shitty things that are in that very comic and relevant to the situation at hand. I probably should have just typed up something myself though. Sorry.

 

Oh, to be clear, I was taking Celeb Receipts to task for linking that other Tumblr post, not you. And I think most of what Celeb Receipts and other blogs like it do is really good - when it comes to raising awareness of massive public figures' horrible actions and opinions that are unlikely to change because they live in a big celebrity bubble. Again, that's why I think there's a difference between that and archiving old, controversial work by Erika, whom I believe is genuinely interested in being a more conscious person.

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You're probably right, though I'm still having trouble kicking the habit of taking her with a grain of salt.

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For people who generally try to be thoughtful and progressive, I don't think they should be immune from criticism, but there has to be room to grow. I came out of a rural, backwards, bigoted town and carried some of that baggage with me for years. If my teens and early 20s had been chronicled online, I can't imagine what kind shit could be used against me today.

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