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QUILTBAG Thread of Flagrant Homoeroticism

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I'm working in college admissions right now (the person who admitted you to forge might have been an underpaid temp, fyi), and some of the recommendations I'm reading are really, really infuriating. This morning, there was a letter of recommendation where the counselor at an expensive boarding school gushed that this applicant was just inhumanly kind because his brother, 5 years older than him, is gay. That's it. Because someone 5 years older than him is gay, this kid is really brave and strong and it's so good of him to have dealt with the hardship of having a gay older sibling in moneyed circles in New York.

On its own, that would just make me roll my eyes, but the applicant's statement on a hardship he faced in life is entirely about his gay older sibling. 750 words about how his brother was generally well accepted by everyone around him, but it was really hard that he was gay.

I obviously can't go into specific details, but it's pretty terrible. These kinds of statements and letters aren't all that rare, and it's going to give me an aneurysm. Is it wrong of me to get so frustrated by this or am I being unreasonable by underestimating how difficult it can be to have a gay sibling/friend/uncle/neighbor?

Ohh someone inside the college admissions thinger. I have a question: when you give recommendations for rejection, do you experience pushback if your main point is that the applicant displays a form of prejudice that could contribute to a negative social environment in the university? Is that kind of thing ever considered in earnest?

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His stated motivation is the same motivation most American right wing reactionaries in political office use when they want to pretend they're not actually racist/homophobic: act like it's really all about a process issue, and that the discrimination is just an unavoidable side effect.

 

I mean, I think it goes another layer down. It's an issue of process, because executive power was used to circumvent legislative process, but go down another level and it's because creating a "protected class" for people who don't need or deserve to be protected in his eyes is a waste of taxpayer money and a threat to free-market capitalism, and then one more level down is the fact that he's a racist and sexist homophobe.

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This is on top of a bill introduced this week that would bar gays from being foster parents. Thats process! I'll link to that later when I'm home. I love this state, but I fucking hate some of the people in it.

Edited to add: The bill.

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Ohh someone inside the college admissions thinger. I have a question: when you give recommendations for rejection, do you experience pushback if your main point is that the applicant displays a form of prejudice that could contribute to a negative social environment in the university? Is that kind of thing ever considered in earnest?

 

I had to learn how to word it. If I say "this person seems to be a homophobe, so I'd recommend against admitting them" I'm likely to get some pushback. If I just say that their personality doesn't seem like a good fit for the class or that they don't seem ready to commit to the university's ideals and social standards or that there's likely to be a lot of friction between them and others in the class, I don't really hear about it. So I can't say the person's a homophobe, just that other people are likely to be unhappy with them being a homophobe. The student's personality is definitely taken into account for admissions, but in a weirdly roundabout way. This is in part because the applicant will have access to certain files about them under FERPA and the school doesn't want to deal with that mess and in part because reading applications is an odd process and you have to negotiate with the reading panel -- the athletic reader for the student applying under crew won't care about a misogynist, but they will care that you get the sense that the applicant will cause friction in a sufficiently large group.

 

From what I understand, it's a lot more acceptable to outright say "This person is a homophobe, we're not accepting them" in graduate admissions, where the cohesiveness of the cohort is a certifiable Big Deal.

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It seems a shame you can't just forward their applications on to Bob Jones University or something

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Here in Utah, we have kind of a 2 steps forward, 1 step back situation (that's the optimistic view) with a nondiscrimination bill that includes sexual orientation and gender identity, but also a compromise 'religious freedom' bill that allows discrimination if you are a religious organization (huge in the state). On the one hand, the nondiscrimination bill (HB296) would have never passed without the 'religious freedom' bill (HB322), and a nondiscrimination bill like this has failed for the past several years. On the other hand, these 'religious freedom' bills seem like they are rife with the potential for unintended (or indended) discriminatory consequences. I definitely have mixed feelings, but I'm trying to be optimistic.

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Especially in a state where religious organizations have a huge amount of control. Especially since most of the money to try and pull the rug out from Prop. 8 was from Utah. 

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Yeah, there are still a lot of bad feelings towards the LDS leadership for the Prop. 8 funding (and I share those feelings), but definitely no bill would have passed here without their support, which they actually did have this time. I'm trying to hold on to some bits of good news. I do worry somewhat that if marriage equality becomes settled with the Supreme Court ruling, that some of the wind goes out of the sails on LGBTQ+ issues that are also so important (nondiscrimination, homelessness, mental health, etc.).

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Yeah, there are still a lot of bad feelings towards the LDS leadership for the Prop. 8 funding (and I share those feelings), but definitely no bill would have passed here without their support, which they actually did have this time. I'm trying to hold on to some bits of good news. I do worry somewhat that if marriage equality becomes settled with the Supreme Court ruling, that some of the wind goes out of the sails on LGBTQ+ issues that are also so important (nondiscrimination, homelessness, mental health, etc.).

 

This seems to be a perennial, and unfounded, fear on the left. It seems like pushing through a law that works and is good makes it easier to advocate for further changes - maybe the law doesn't fully solve the problem, but now it's the law of the land it's much easier to argue that it should be built on rather than getting rid of it, causing a whole bunch of new problems, then replacing it with something unproven. If the Republicans try and smash Obamacare, for instance, there's going to be millions of furious people for whom the law solved their problem, even though you've also got the problem of hospitals not having any pressures to reduce prices so everything's way more expensive than it needs to be.

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This seems to be a perennial, and unfounded, fear on the left. It seems like pushing through a law that works and is good makes it easier to advocate for further changes - maybe the law doesn't fully solve the problem, but now it's the law of the land it's much easier to argue that it should be built on rather than getting rid of it, causing a whole bunch of new problems, then replacing it with something unproven. If the Republicans try and smash Obamacare, for instance, there's going to be millions of furious people for whom the law solved their problem, even though you've also got the problem of hospitals not having any pressures to reduce prices so everything's way more expensive than it needs to be.

 

That's definitely true, and I am in favor of getting laws passed that do some, but not all, of what I might want. I'm definitely happy about marriage equality advancing, and the non-discrimination bill in Utah. I just have to overcome the feeling of immediately looking for the dark side, and keep working for change (the little bit that I contribute).

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This seems to be a perennial, and unfounded, fear on the left. It seems like pushing through a law that works and is good makes it easier to advocate for further changes - maybe the law doesn't fully solve the problem, but now it's the law of the land it's much easier to argue that it should be built on rather than getting rid of it, causing a whole bunch of new problems, then replacing it with something unproven. If the Republicans try and smash Obamacare, for instance, there's going to be millions of furious people for whom the law solved their problem, even though you've also got the problem of hospitals not having any pressures to reduce prices so everything's way more expensive than it needs to be.

 

I don't see it as unfounded. Homeless and mentally ill populations are generally ignored and invisible, and those are things that disproportionately affect LGBTQ+ populations. The only LGBTQ+ populations that really get any attention in the mainstream are the most heternormative -- those who want to engage in monogamous life partnerships with the person of their choosing, and have the financial means to participate in the culture of marriage and weddings. Assuming that invisible populations will continue to be invisible isn't a huge leap of faith.

 

Nondiscrimination has a bit of a push. Things like homelessness, mental illness, and addiction I don't really see getting any mainstream attention from LGBTQ+ advocacy groups after marriage is a settled issue -- which is, in part, due to the nomenclature of marriage equality, but that's a whole other weird argument.

 

I want to be wrong about that, but I don't think I am.

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I guess I saw Merus' point (and please clear this up if I'm wrong, Merus) as the unfounded fear being that if a law isn't perfect, passing the 'half-a-loaf' version will actually be worse than nothing. I definitely don't agree with that view, and progress definitely depends on making these flawed laws better.

 

However, as I have been getting a little more involved in the LGBTQ+ community here, it definitely seems like there is a stronger push for the 'mainstream' advocacy of marriage equality and more focus on the LG parts. As someone who is very privileged on several axes (cis, male, white, middle-class), but less on one axis (bisexual), it has been slightly discouraging to see how strong the monogamous LG focus can be. I'm still learning so much from new friends in the community, and there are definitely groups doing great work here (Transgender Education Advocates of Utah among others) who are concerned with other issues.

 

I know that these kind of social justice issues (homelessness, mental illness, addiction, sexual abuse, etc.) have always been less supported by larger, non-single issue advocacy groups, and I guess I'm feeling that it would be great to harness some of the amazing power of the marriage equality push in LGBTQ+ groups to help these issues too. Especially since those issues are so disproportionately problems in the LGBTQ+ community as a whole. 

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Louis Theroux recently did an episode on transgender kids. My girlfriend is watching it now, and it seems pretty sympathetic and relatively insightful for a mainstream show.

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So one of the original X-men is 'coming out' as gay. I put it this way because it looks like a complete catastrophe, including nonconsensually revealing his sexuality via telepathy, implying that because his relationships with women 'failed' (I guess relationships that end have failed??) he is gay, and defining his sexuality for him while implying that bisexuality doesn't exist:

 

tumblr_inline_nn5ctfHLUR1rid3d5_500.jpg

 

From here: http://bisexual-books.tumblr.com/post/117013576522/how-to-fail-at-coming-out-stories-in-comics

 

It seems like a major uphill struggle to make this seem like a good idea, rather than an attempt at representation collapsing under a pile of insulting LGBT cliches and stereotypes.

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It's also just going to turn into a giant mess because that's the younger version of Iceman while the adult version of him is straight.  Can't wait to see how they handle that explanation.

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I'm only half gay but I definitely deal with full gay consequences

Yeah, I'm trying not to overreact to it seeming really tone deaf. I'm only out to a few friends and family as bisexual, and one of the things that took me the longest to get over was that I didn't feel 'gay enough'. I'm feeling very sensitive to comments like 'everyone's a little bisexual' and 'half-gay' etc., so it really hacked me off.

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It's also just going to turn into a giant mess because that's the younger version of Iceman while the adult version of him is straight.  Can't wait to see how they handle that explanation.

But is the adult version of him straight for sure? I just figured my identity out in the last year or so and I'm 32, it happens! This could have been an opportunity to explore sexual fluidity, multisexual identity, any number of things. And maybe it will be, but I'm not exactly holding my breath.

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I'm only half gay but I definitely deal with full gay consequences

 

All my relationships with women have failed by not lasting forever, so I'm probably at least half gay, too.

 

But is the adult version of him straight for sure? I just figured my identity out in the last year or so and I'm 32, it happens! This could have been an opportunity to explore sexual fluidity, multisexual identity, any number of things. And maybe it will be, but I'm not exactly holding my breath.

 

I am really trying my hardest not to believe that he'll just find "the right woman" and that'll be enough for the writer(s).

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On the serious note: yeah, this feels like someone writing this stuff with NO experience whatsoever of what experiences like this are. I would be beyond upset if a psychic outed me or even just read my sexy thoughts and then made a judgement about my sexuality, especially because a lot of teens have confusing thoughts about sex and sexuality ALL the time. What we decide that means is ultimately our business, too. The idea of "full" or "half gay" is also really upsetting because it's like, uh, no, I'm not half a cheeseburger, I'm a bacon burger. I'm an entirely different thing, and no, not everyone is a little bisexual because if they WERE, maybe we'd not have this invisibility bullshit!

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Obviously adult Iceman is gonna turn out to be a clone or Wolverine or some bullshit.

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But is the adult version of him straight for sure? I just figured my identity out in the last year or so and I'm 32, it happens! This could have been an opportunity to explore sexual fluidity, multisexual identity, any number of things. And maybe it will be, but I'm not exactly holding my breath.

 

I think it's about as sure as anything can be in a comic book so... not very?  But there is this page.  

 

tumblr_inline_nn4kb9vA3e1r54my5_540.jpg

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Or he could not love her because she's a fucking smug-ass shit straight girl ally. If she asks him to go shopping with her, I am going to throw shit.

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Oh dear. Anyone feel like ritually burning an effigy right now?

 

The worst part of the whole Iceman thing to me is how all my straight comic fan friends are all "yay gay x-man!!!!" and won't hear otherwise. Ugh.
 
Same. Queer friends too.

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