Sign in to follow this  
Rob Zacny

Episode 222: Wargame: See Deep, Think Deeper

Recommended Posts

Bruce and Tom join Rob for a late-night chat about Wargame: AirLand Battle, Cold War tactics and politics, and Rob's overwhelming awfulness at this game.

 

Listen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could swear you guys had the same argument about the pronunciation of "Eugen" in the W:EE podcast.  :)  Oddly, it seems like Eugen's website hasn't been told about Ruse, let alone anything they've done since.

 

I haven't played this game yet, but I'm starting to wonder if perhaps this branch of RTS games should be moving more in the direction of Sins of a Solar Empire; it sounds like they would benefit from a more majestic pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't played this game yet, but I'm starting to wonder if perhaps this branch of RTS games should be moving more in the direction of Sins of a Solar Empire; it sounds like they would benefit from a more majestic pace.

 

That makes sense to me. I haven't tried Land Air War, but European Escalation already felt too unwieldy for me to really handle. Sins is nice because it has that grand scale, but it also has such an appealing pace to play a game at that scale. A RTS that plays quickly I think works much better when it's a much more tightly focused scope like Starcraft or Company of Heroes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm. I'm torn. I really wanted to like Wargame: EE, especially after the original TMA episode talking about it.. After playing it for a bit I had to admit to myself that I just wasn't getting much out of it. So I listen to this episode, and now I want Airland Battle, and I worry I won't like that either and feel like a (slightly poorer) fool. You podcasting chaps do have a knack for making a fellow want stuff.

 

Let me lay out why I think I didn't like EE, and maybe those who've played AB can make an educated guess as to whether I should give it a try.

 

I liked the idea of deck building with armies and having fun with lots of different toys, but I don't have time in my life right now to dedicate myself to learning to play multiplayer, as much fun as it looks. This one looks like it would take quite a bit of play to figure out even the basics of how the units interplay and what one does in a given situation. But, you say, that's what skirmish is for. OK, but skirmish didn't give me any points to unlock more interesting toys to experiment with, in a game about experimenting with interesting toys, a decision I found a bit on the odd side.

 

Alright, you say, but you could play the campaign and get unlocking star points. I could if the campaign was enjoyable enough in and off itself. For me, it wasn't. The missions I got through just weren't that interesting. They didn't feel at all dynamic and were standard RTS fare. Go from here to there blowing up the odd tank or what have you along the way. Blow up a bunch of unreactive units waiting for me on an objective. Defend this bit against a scripted attack.

 

I mean, this would be OK. I'm not the biggest fan of RTS campaigns, because they usually feel artificial, unreactive, and kind of puzzly compared to a live opponent or even a competent skirmish AI. Whatever, though, I've played though a few. Here, the game combines this sort of staid setup with a harsh attitude towards errors, and an unwillingness to guide a newer player in the tactics they will require. Example: A mission midway though the first campaign has you assaulting a couple of defended towns for the first time. It was not obvious to me what the best way to do that was. I needed to use infantry, but how to get them close enough when the tin cans they traveled in would pop to a mean look from a LAW wielding Commie? Marching them in across an open field would hardly work better. Artillery seemed like it ought to be a good disrupting tool, but seemed too inaccurate to do so reliably, or in a reasonable time frame. A poorly executed assault could have heavy casualties, which had consequences not just for the mission, but for the rest of the campaign, because there were only so many Panzergrenadiers to go round.

 

Would it have been too much to have a little box pop up at the start of the mission with some advice on assaulting enemy held towns? Could selecting a unit for the first time maybe have treated one to a quick paragraph on its uses and drawbacks? I get that the game is supposed to be lethal and uncompromising, and I really like that. I don't think that would preclude a little guidance .

 

Oh, and does AB have a pause function that'd let me take a little look at the battlefield? I don't see the harm that would do in the campaign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might be wrong, but I think Wargame: AirLand Battle doesn't have star points. Everything is available from the start, with your choices more restricted by the synergy requirements than a thinly veiled XP grind.

 

I personally had a blast with Wargame: European Escalation, but blew out the moment I did the math and realized that completing every objective in the (at times quite frankly sadistic) campaign wouldn't give me enough stars to unlock even half the units. That's pretty much why AirLand Battle is sitting on my Steam wishlist and not in a mental dumpster somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All units are unlocked in WALB.  There are pre-made decks if you don't want to build your own right away.

I highly recommend the game, the developers are excellent with updates and balance patches.  My steam name is oatbag if you ever want to play a game with kids gloves and helpful tips on learning the game.  Comp stomp or head to head, I'd be happy to introduce it.

 

The air superiority game, smoke, and new napalm effects allow for really complicated (and rewarding) tactics.

 

Also there are lots of decent youtube commentators that will narrate ranked battles, thats a great jumping off point also, to see how the game plays out at the competitive level.

 

Anyway, I've play a ton of RTS's in my day, and this series made me geek out on cold war hardware and doctrine.  That said, as one of the pod casters said, you don't HAVE to get into the mardera1 vs marder a2 differences - the unit type is enough to go bay to enjoy the game.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I went ahead and gave it a go. So far I'm pretty happy. Everything is unlocked so I can gawk at all the shiny toys. I've only touched the intro campaign, but I like it so much better than the usual scripted stuff. Plus, it'll teach me something about playing the game. 

 

I love the way air units are implemented. Very logical and slick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pacing back and forth on the buy/don't buy line for this game.  Traditionally, I am not a big fan of RTS, though I have given it a try on and off over the years.  On the other hand, I am into wargaming, and I especially like modern-era themed games such as Harpoon, Falcon, Steel Panthers 2, etc.  Admittedly, these are not RTS games though, so I feel kind of stuck.

 

Anyone else out there in my demographic?  Not totally in love with RTS but ultimately happy with your experiences with this game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pacing back and forth on the buy/don't buy line for this game.

 

    I haven't tried it, but it's currently 33% off in the big steam sale if that affects your decision...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't much care for RTS games at all, although I appreciate the ones that are done well. You won't probably like this one in online multiplayer if you don't much like RTS games, and/ or suck at them (i.e., like me), but you may well like the solo campaigns. One thing I traditionally hate about solo play of most RTS games (whether the crappy campaigns or skirmish mode) is the been there/ done that feeling. I am so done with cleaning up and enemy's base when the winner is already clear. It's just boring to me. But this game has the best campaign(s) EVAR in a RTS, and second place is miles behind.

 

Combine that with the deckbuilding minigame, and the absolute truckload of sexy cold war equipment (and I can spend a lot of time just looking over the database of units and equipment), and I think you can hardly go wrong. And to me, this is the best looking RTS game ever. I recently built a top end PC, and this game just looks so good at max settings. (Wargame:EE also looked great, but this one looks even better.)

 

So, I think I am probably in your (Skyrider, that is) demographic, and I really recommend this one, even if you never play online multi at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I highly recommend the game, the developers are excellent with updates and balance patches. 

...

Anyway, I've play a ton of RTS's in my day, and this series made me geek out on cold war hardware and doctrine. 

 

 

Did you play Eugen's Act of War games? I got the expansion without realizing the new naval units could not be used outside of multiplayer. I found that someone had created a mod to give access to the units in skirmish but couldn't patch the game to the latest version which the mod required. When trying to patch, I'd get an error message that the executable had been tampered with or something to that effect and that the game needed to be reinstalled. I tried a reinstall to no avail. Maybe it's that I use a custom install location for games? It seemed the patch found the .exe file though. At least going by the error message.

I haven't gotten either of the Eugen Wargame titles yet. Have amassed too large a collection of games I'm not getting to now to justify a new game purchase (have been sort of playing through the history of RTSs and and am still playing many previous gen titles). The scale and that people really like the campaign of this game are interesting points though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this