Zeusthecat

The Big LucasArts Playthrough

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This is a great Idea, do this. I want to do this now too. I only finished Loom out of those, do not skip Loom, it's wonderful.

The feeling you get after each of the later games up to escape is that of sadness of never being able to experience them for the first time again. Lucky you. =)

 

Okay, it's settled. I will play all of them in order starting with Maniac Mansion. I recognize the earlier ones likely won't be as enjoyable mechanically but I really like the idea of playing through them in a way that lets me experience the evolution of that genre. I will at least make some attempt at solving the puzzles in the earlier games but I won't stick with any puzzles for nearly as long as I have with Monkey Island 2. Plus I expect playing the earlier games will heighten my enjoyment of the later games since I will probably notice and appreciate any improvements that have been made.

 

I'll update my original post with the gameplan and will post here again when I am getting ready to start MM in case anyone else wants to join. Thanks again to everyone for your suggestions.

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I'm not steeped in adventure gaming but Monkey island 3 and grim fandango are my favourites from when I was a teen

machinarium is pretty great

May be of interest

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/2/20/4005990/nostalgia-vs-narrative-a-series-of-adventure-game-letters

Also, just read this article. I am glad Leigh balanced it with her point of view. I have this conversation with so many people in real life who happened to play one or two adventures in their childhood, one sometimes being a King's Quest (NOT GOOD, AWFUL DESIGN), and then deem the whole genre as a broken mess because apparently all adventures are comprised of cutscenes and doing a bunch of impossible puzzles only the designers could imagine.

 

It's really just not so. I think people miss out of the fun of things like sprawling nonlinear areas with tons of puzzles to reveal, the humor of trying certain impossible or asshole things, and of course the ongoing amusement of messing around with dialogue trees. Boy do I love dialogue tree puzzles by the way.

 

To say a bunch of adventures are just the player trying figure out the designer's moon logic are selling them short. I feel like these people deem puzzles as a chore and just want to get to the next part of story. This doesn't help if someone experienced a completely shit adventure game with tons of bad logic, lack of general character feedback, lack of hints in dialogue, and the uselessness of pixel hunts. Compound those problems with awful story, dialogue, voice acting, art, and music and you easily have a loser. It's a very delicate balance to get an adventure right in my opinion.

 

When I think of my favorite LucasArts adventures, I often try to count how many puzzles I consider illogical or poorly thought out. Grim Fandango has 2-3, Full Throttle has 1, Day of the Tentacle has 1, and Monkey Island 2 has 2. I mean those are my personal counts, but I can't imagine the count varies that much with players. It's really way above par for the course. People pick on Monkey Island 2 because of the infamous monkey wrench, but they don't even stop to think about what a sprawling, organized mess Act 2 is where you can do so many things in any order you like and it's just a tour de force of crafty puzzles. I can only imagine the insane design document for that part. Adventures tend to work poorly when you are trapped in a room, and a lot of bad adventures are a sequence of linear rooms. But that's what people do, they pick out one or two admittedly poor puzzles in a heralded game, or just a terrible game in general (King's Quest! Gah!) and then plug the whole genre for it. I don't think there is any game genre without some aspects of obscure design or has a mass of bad games along with the good ones. It just happens, no one is perfect. Even Gabriel Knight 3 with the famous and awful cat hair puzzle had so many amazing things it did in terms of investigation and research, along with the time system, but that's all it will ever be remembered for (and the trashiest out of date graphics).

 

I hate the adventure game online communities that will play whatever the fuck because they are starving for an adventure game and will call whatever comes out great, but I also hate when non adventure game players just piss on the great ones for minor problems.

 

Rant done.

 

But yeah, on topic, I hope you don't give up after or during playing those first 4, Zeus. If they feel too crappy or difficult, I'd just skip to the later games. Either that or just use a walkthrough every single time you are stuck. Also warning, Zak McCracken and Last Crusade are much easier to put yourself into an unwinnable situation than Maniac Mansion. From Loom and on, there aren't any unwinnable situations. Not sure about Labyrinth.

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No worries here. I have taken your advice to heart and won't go too crazy on these. Having played Monkey Island 1 and most of 2 and seeing how amazing they are, I won't let the earlier games get to me if they have sub-par design. And I'll re-iterate, if I am approaching a point where it is possible for me to make one of these games un-winnable, I have no problem with anyone giving me a heads up.

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I grew up with these games, so I can't imagine playing them out of chronological order. But I can confirm that Day of the Tentacle has no significant callbacks to Maniac Mansion. If you're wondering, "Oh, I wonder why there's a mummy in Day of the Tentacle? I guess they explained it in the first game." Uh, you don't need to worry about that.

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While we wait for Zeus to start his LucasArts adventure run, I want to talk about The Secret of Monkey Island for a bit since A)he's already played it and B)I'm too lazy to look for an existing thread.  I'll start with some random anecdotes.  Spoilers ahead if for some reason you haven't played it and yet are reading this thread.

 

The hardest puzzle in the game for me was getting past the vicious poodles.  The other two trials I figured out easily, but it took me forever to get into the mansion.  In fact, it was my friend that figured out that puzzle.  It didn't occur to me to try combining things in my inventory.  I spent so many hours throwing every item I had at those dogs.  I must have fed them a thousand pieces of meat before we got it.  But the note informing us that the dogs were SLEEPING and not dead was so hilarious it made me feel a lot better.

 

I completely didn't get the red herring joke until I was much older, not understanding what the phrase "red herring" meant.

 

I probably spent about 10 minutes haggling with Stan to buy the boat.  I actually went through the all the extras he tries to sell you, either rejecting or accepting each one thinking they might actually have a use on the trip, not realizing at the time they were all jokes.  I was disappointed when the extras that I thought I had purchased turned out to be nothing.

 

My favorite jokes were:

Saying "I'm Bobbin, are you my mother?" in the circus tent after being shot out of the cannon.  I never played Loom so the joke was a non sequitur to me but the phrase was so funny I laughed out loud.

 

The fake game over/rubber tree.  I was so mad that there was a random game over but when Guybrush came bouncing back up I laughed for 5 minutes straight.  What was even funnier to me was my friend who figured out how to get past the dogs actually turned his computer off when he thought he died.  His later surprise at being told it was fake may be the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.

 

Escaping from the cannibals and coming back.  Each time they lock you up again the door lock gets more elaborate until you get a bank vault with a flashing ARMED sign.  I don't know why that image was so funny to me in retrospect.

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I had no problem getting past the dogs but I did have a lot of trouble figuring out how to get to the swordmaster. I ended up having to use a guide and I'm glad I did because it never would have occurred to me that you could follow the shopkeeper out of his store. I didn't think that was even a thing you could do and was my first lesson in learning how to think outside the box when considering the various mechanics in the game.

For me, the most hilarious standout moment in the game was Guybrush's interaction with the shopkeeper. Maybe it's because it was my first extended experience with an NPC in this genre but I was just amazed at all of his different quips based on what I was doing. I probably sat there for a solid 15 minutes making him go to the sword master's house and then ringing the bell and laughing when he immediately opened the door and came right back to the counter. I just couldn't believe they had given him so many lines of dialog for one repeated action. The best part though was when I tried to steal something and he pops right back in out of nowhere and calls me out, then calls me a shoplifter for the rest of the game.

That game will always hold a special place in my heart even though I just recently played it because it was the very first game that my daughter watched me play from start to finish (I did a second play through so she wouldn't get bored by me being stuck).

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I'd say the first three Lucasarts games (not counting Labyrinth since I haven't played it since it's a C64 game) are the hardest since you can mess up, but Maniac Mansion is the easiest of them? They are still easy compared to any Sierra game though.

 

Maniac Mansion is what gave name to SCUMM, and I'd recommend it, just save often and you'll be fine.  

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It'll be useful to know which version of each game you end up obtaining, Zeusthecat.  With these older games especially, the difference between versions can be profound graphically and in the case of Loom in content as well.

 

In the case of Maniac Mansion, your choices are essentially the "original" PC version (I'm lumping C64/Apple II into "PC" here), the "enhanced" PC version, and the NES version.  I would avoid the original version, since the enhanced version is plenty crude enough from an art standpoint and 100% accurate to the original warts-and-all gameplay.  The NES version is a rather unique and well-made port, but since it came out in 1990 and adopted a few of the lessons of the MI interface I'd say play it only after the fact if you have the urge simply in the interest of getting to see the engine's evolution play out as it actually happened.

 

Visual supplements:

 

Original Graphics

8521-maniac-mansion-dos-screenshot-the-c

 

Enhanced Graphics

30500-maniac-mansion-dos-screenshot-the-

 

Nintendo Entertainment System

621392-maniac-mansion-nes-screenshot-cut

 

Famicom (Japanese NES) (Doesn't even use SCUMM!)

mmnesjp4.png

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For me, the most hilarious standout moment in the game was Guybrush's interaction with the shopkeeper. Maybe it's because it was my first extended experience with an NPC in this genre but I was just amazed at all of his different quips based on what I was doing. I probably sat there for a solid 15 minutes making him go to the sword master's house and then ringing the bell and laughing when he immediately opened the door and came right back to the counter. I just couldn't believe they had given him so many lines of dialog for one repeated action. The best part though was when I tried to steal something and he pops right back in out of nowhere and calls me out, then calls me a shoplifter for the rest of the game.

 

 

That's one of the reasons I really love the LucasArts games.  There are so many situations that they must have known most players would never see, yet they wrote amusing dialog anyway just in case one person decided to sit there for 15 minutes and ring the bell.  It's what compels me to click everything a million times in all the LucasArts games.

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That's one of the reasons I really love the LucasArts games.  There are so many situations that they must have known most players would never see, yet they wrote amusing dialog anyway just in case one person decided to sit there for 15 minutes and ring the bell.  It's what compels me to click everything a million times in all the LucasArts games.

 

That is so true. It's weird having played so many video games in my life and just now experiencing this kind of thing. I have always had a tendency to talk to NPCs over and over in games and do many things repeatedly for whatever reason. To have a game actually recognize that and encourage you to do it is just fucking awesome. How am I 28 and just now seeing this for the first time? Indeed these games must have been very ahead of their time.

 

 

It'll be useful to know which version of each game you end up obtaining, Zeusthecat. 

 

I had planned to play all of the original versions using Scummvm. I was able to find free downloads for MI:1 and 2 since they made them open source and I assumed I would be able to do the same for some of the other earlier games. However, if you recommend a different version I'm all ears.

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I was able to find free downloads for MI:1 and 2 since they made them open source...

 

Whaa?

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Whaa?

 

Is that not the case? I swear I read somewhere that they had made a bunch of their older games open source not too long ago. It was pretty easy to find the downloads and there was no indication that it wasn't legit.

 

Edit: Now I'm not so sure. I can't find where I originally read that but sure enough it is easy as hell to download the game for free from many different sites.

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Can you still find the source? If true, I have missed the news completely. In any case, it would be a weird move this soon after Monkey Island 1 and 2 Special Edition releases.

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Can you still find the source? If true, I have missed the news completely. In any case, it would be a weird move this soon after Monkey Island 1 and 2 Special Edition releases.

 

I did some digging and I think I am mistaken. I don't think they made them open source, maybe it was just Scummvm being open source that had me confused. So does that mean I did a no-no when I downloaded the original versions? I don't see any way to purchase them unless you buy the special editions.

 

Am I a pirate?

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Okay, so I guess it is a grey area and falls under the rules of abandonware. I'm such a fucking idiot.

 

I feel like Macaulay Culkin when he accidentally stole the toothbrush in Home Alone.

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Monkey Island 1 and 2 (because of the Special Editions), Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Loom, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, and The Dig were made available on Steam before LucasArts fucked off.  All the rest of the adventure games must either be purchased second-hand or pirated to be played until Disney finally answers some prayers.

 

Am I overlooking some still in-print international releases, anyone?

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Okay, so I guess it is a grey area and falls under the rules of abandonware.

 

Pretty sure Disney would disagree with you on that one.

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On Steam, there's a LucasArts Adventure Pack for $9.99 that includes the four non-Monkey Island games I mentioned above, and the two Monkey Island special editions are $9.99 a piece.  Buy them.  And when/if Disney re-releases the rest, be sure to buy those.

 

Take the above steps and you can probably pirate the out-of-print LucasArts adventures and still be kind of an honest man.

 

(Frankly, I would advise anyone who wants to play Loom to buy the Steam version and then immediately pirate the original EGA version for appropriate purism.  I also don't care for the fact that the Last Crusade on Steam is the VGA version yet somehow only includes PC speaker sound.  Then there's the FM-Town versions of Zak and Loom which are arguably the definitive versons of each game yet I would still insist on the older versions.  I am very weird when it comes to that.)

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Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely purchase whatever I can purchase.

 

 

Pretty sure Disney would disagree with you on that one.

 

I was reading more on this and am just getting more confused on how abandonware is supposed to work. It seems that the ESA at least does not have a problem with a site putting up free downloads of games that are not supported any more (> 15 years old I think) but I guess it could still technically be considered copyright infringement if the owner chose to take action. Fucking weird.

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There is no such thing as abandonware, really. Software is copyrighted for decades (in the US I believe 60 years after the death of the creator). What people call abandonware is just copyrighted software that is not actively being protected by its copyright holder. Whenever you use abandonware software you are breaching copyright, you're just hoping that no one cares enough to come after you.

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Abandonware is basically a meaningless term used to justify piracy.  Technically speaking the unauthorized distribution of software that is merely unavailable qualifies as piracy, but I'm not personally going to begrudge anybody obtaining Grim Fandango the only way they can while its copyright owner spends fifteen years determining whether or not it would be profitable enough an endeavor to simply make it available by legal means.

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Well I feel terrible now for downloading MI:1 and 2 the way I did. At least I'll make up for it by purchasing the Adventure pack on Steam. That's a damn good deal for so many classic games.

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It's not piracy is the owner of the game/license/whatever refuses to let me buy it. I mean technically it is. But it isn't! Fuck that.

 

Also Zeus your'e totally a pirate 'cause you could've bought MI1 and 2 on steam, and even turned off all the new art/voice stuff. TSK. TSK. I'm so ashamed of you!

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I think of it like trespassing. If you trespass through private property that is currently being used or occupied, you're kind of a jerk. If you trespass through an empty lot that no one seems to care about, then you're much less of a jerk. You're a trespasser either way but you're not equally jerky, in my opinion.

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