Jake

Dota Today 1: QOP Top and POTM Bottom

Recommended Posts

All us LoL players are gonna bitch and moan every week, guaranteed.

 

But we'll listen anyway, because we'll love to hear about your horrible-turn-speed related pain.

Oh man I am so in on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's for people who are already there. This episode doesn't go too deep/insane after listening to most of it, but here is a telling sign: The episode title, while looking like insane nonsense, actually makes sense to many who have been playing Dota for a while.

Edit: I just got to the part that I can't understand at all. Still enjoying it for the enthusiasm alone. This is what Idle Thumbs must sound like to my mom.

 

Is there any chance that they could maybe do an episode for people that are new to the game? It would be cool to hear their input on what new people should do to learn the game. Then again there's probably a billion guides for people new to the game so I would understand them not wanting to cover it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding random gold: I used to just play like I'd normally play, but have a couple hundred extra gold when I go into lain. Exceptions are support, 'cause I'll buy an extra pair of wards/upgrade courier. Either or. Then I just pretend I got some sick sick last HITS and buy boots a bit earlier.

 

Now I just straight up buy boots on non-supports. That movement speed.

 

Lately I play a lot of all random, though, so everyone gets the gold. Or random draft, where no one gets the gold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there any chance that they could maybe do an episode for people that are new to the game? It would be cool to hear their input on what new people should do to learn the game. Then again there's probably a billion guides for people new to the game so I would understand them not wanting to cover it.

I think there is talk of a "welcome new guys!" episode, but I think they mostly want to focus on current stuff happening within the game and their playing of it, which probably means that it'll be more inside most of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just reading the thread for episode 99 where someone linked a video of pro CoD players yelling at each other.  There were a couple comments about how it doesn't happen in Starcraft and Dota and I want people to rest assured that there is a seedy underbelly to the pro DotA scene. 

 

 

This is rOtk who is on DK.  I hope he does this at TI3 (he wont).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am extremely excited by the thought of a LoMa comparison episode. As someone who has played at least 1000 LoMa matches spread across Dota 1/2/HoN/LoL (league being the least played), I've bottled up a huge list of observations and musings about the nature of the genre. It's so strange how differently I tend to play each game. Imagine having 4 different Counterstrikes or 4 different Starcrafts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is rOtk who is on DK.  I hope he does this at TI3 (he wont).

I think he would if he could. But they have soundproofed booths for people playing on the stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This podcast is awesome not only because it's about Dota, which is amazing, but also because it's got twice as much Nick Breckon as a proportion as the full cast. I feel like this requires charts and graphs.

 

Oh, in terms of actual Dota content, specifically regarding Nick's comments on Blink Tinker, if anyone is playing they should definitely change from the default hotkeys for items. You don't really need the full 6 under your hand, but get at least 3 or 4 you can reach easily. Use a couple side mouse buttons,  space bar or number keys you aren't likely to use for groups. Being able to use an item well can really help your team. Good use of phase boots for positioning, or support force staff can really help and give you a lot more utility. I'm honestly a bit shocked the default item hotkeys are so bad, they discourage using items early because of how awkward they are. Maybe it's not a good idea for new people to jump into having 6 different slots to micro on top of your skills, but even drilling in the idea of using one item while doing everything else is an important hurdle, in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just started the episode, but since Jake is not on this podcast I doubt anyone is going to pronounce the title as "Dota T'Dota," which is how my brain immediately said it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finished it earlier. You dudes mentioned going to The International! I had planned to go there, but ended up deciding to go to PAX instead, 'cause Ic an't really afford both trips. Made me sad. Ah well.

 

The question: are you planning to do any in-depth discussion of the competitive scene? I love that shit. U:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finished it earlier. You dudes mentioned going to The International! I had planned to go there, but ended up deciding to go to PAX instead, 'cause Ic an't really afford both trips. Made me sad. Ah well.

 

The question: are you planning to do any in-depth discussion of the competitive scene? I love that shit. U:

 

Gonna try! We're learnin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What in game channel are we all gunna idle in (see what I did there?)? Are we keepin it in the thumbs channel or breakin out!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't invest the time that actually playing Dota would require, but as an artist that likes to hear Sean excitedly explain inexplicable LoMa shit while I paint, this is scratching the meanest itch.

 

Really do need to get back to that gaynor/klepek scoops diptych though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am extremely excited by the thought of a LoMa comparison episode. As someone who has played at least 1000 LoMa matches spread across Dota 1/2/HoN/LoL (league being the least played), I've bottled up a huge list of observations and musings about the nature of the genre. It's so strange how differently I tend to play each game. Imagine having 4 different Counterstrikes or 4 different Starcrafts. 

 

You should write in!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gonna try! We're learnin.

Rad! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The episode was nice, but it was all a bit formless. I shall continue listening in the surety that ye will find your feet quickly.

Do ye plan to structure the episodes around a particular topic (ala gamers with jobs) or so ye have other plans in mind?

Good job though, looking forward to hearing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Deleric, on 29 May 2013 - 18:58, said:

I am extremely excited by the thought of a LoMa comparison episode. As someone who has played at least 1000 LoMa matches spread across Dota 1/2/HoN/LoL (league being the least played), I've bottled up a huge list of observations and musings about the nature of the genre. It's so strange how differently I tend to play each game. Imagine having 4 different Counterstrikes or 4 different Starcrafts.

Yeah, this is a super interesting topic.

Most people don't have your kind of experience. Being good at any of these games requires a sizable time investment, and if you don't invest that time into each of the LOMAs then you probably don't have a good enough understanding of what actually makes them different.

I started playing DOTA when it was a War3 mod. I moved onto HoN, LoL, and Dota2, and even though they share similar core objectives and mechanics, they're all very different games. Even DOTA2, which is purportedly a remake of DOTA, feels very different from DOTA.

Any analogy is going to break down if you take it too far, but I think the two best games at this point are LoL and DOTA2, and if you're going to compare the two, you could reasonably say that if LoL is basketball, then DOTA2 is soccer. The basic goals are the same - put a ball in a net. But the playing fields, the positions - these are all different. There are so many minute differences - attack animations, summoners spells, runes, and masteries in LoL, and a super varied item pool in DOTA2 just to name a few, and you quickly realize why people are such ardent fans of one or the other. They really are very different games built on very similar premises.

I think the biggest differences are map size and visual fidelity.

I don't need to go into visual fidelity. One look at the game makes it clear that DOTA2 is a much more attractive game visually.

Mapwise, LoL feels a bit claustrophobic compared to the size of DOTA2's map, but I do think this significantly heightens the mental aspect of the game - map awareness is incredibly important because ganks can come a lot faster. It also emphasizes warding, and as there's no limit on wards like in DOTA2, ward control becomes a big part of most matches. Obviously ward control is important in DOTA2 as well, but maybe not as much so. The thing about DOTA2 is that it's mechanically more difficult than LoL, which means it's simply harder for players to glance at the mini-map because CSing, denying, and using items (as well as courier management and the higher number of minion-based champions) consume the players' attention.

I love the champion/hero diversity in DOTA2 but overall I think the champions in LoL are better designed. Sure, you have incredibly interesting heroes in DOTA2 like Rubick/Invoker, but there are also just a lot of heroes that are in bad places or are plain uninteresting both in terms of design and player experience. The reason for this, I think, is that LoL's meta is much more static. Now this is an interesting thing, because the meta in competitive LoL is just as static as the meta in competitive DOTA2 (which is to say that they are both fairly varied but have a solid foundation that doesn't change all that much), but if you jump into a random game of DOTA2, you will see a much greater diversity of team compositions. That's because Riot designs LoL with a specific meta in mind (top lane, duo-lane, jungle, mid lane). DOTA2 has a much less design-directed meta. So maybe DOTA2 is a bit crazier, but LoL has more champs with easily defined roles. Another example of this is jungling. There are really only about 7 or 8 heroes in DOTA2 for whom jungling from level one is even possible, but you can take a sizable minority of the League champions into the jungle and clear, although they may not be especially successful supports/gankers. This is something I like about League (and to be fair, this is a fairly new development as jungling in seasons 1 and 2 of League was about as brutal as it is in DOTA2) but you also lose something with that, which is that mechanically-intense or variant heroes like Keeper and Enchantress aren't present in League.

Also, and this doesn't matter too much, but a lot of the DOTA2 heroes are embarrassingly vapid. This is just my opinion, but some of them are just... lazy, I guess? Especially thematically. Things like Tiny or Queen of Pain. Shots fired, I guess. When you compare it to stuff in League like Zac or Annie - well, they're just a lot more interesting.

The competitive scenes are similar but LoL's is a bit better, I think. The League scene has a higher general skill level because of two factors: 1) more money from Riot, and 2) The Korean scene. The Korean pro-gaming scene is the most developed of anywhere, basically, and they have an infrastructure of sponsors, coaches, and veteran players that far outstrip any other region. And then of course the production values of the LCS, LPL, and OGN are far better than the myriad of tiny DOTA2 tournaments that are going on at any time (obviously the International is an outlier here).

Whew, that's a wall of text and I feel like I barely addressed the differences between the two games. If it's not clear from all that, I'm a big fan of both games and try to follow their competitive scenes and general meta as much as I can. It's hard to play both and have a life, so I play more LoL than DOTA2, but I try to play both as much as I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have literally no idea how you can say some of those things with a straight face. Most of it is objective comparisons which are fair, but then you throw in some weird stuff. Like Tiny being "vapid". You're the worst!

 

But then I look at League's list of champions and am repulsed by the art style, god it's so off-putting, so what the fuck do I know. (A million leagues better than HoN, though.)

 

believe it or not that pun was unintentional oh noooooo

 

EDIT: I had no idea who Zac was 'cause he came out after I quit. I looked him up. He's an anthropomorphic slime. I uh well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HoNs cool heroes, art wise: Thunderbringer/Zeus, Bubbles/Puck. 

 

Also your post is full of dumb anecdotes Corelli. I don't even know where to start. If you aren't following DOTA2, don't make a long post about it. You seem like a complete asshole. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Completely agree that League's splash art is totally awful. DOTA2 is so much more visually pleasing it's not even funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HoNs cool heroes, art wise: Thunderbringer/Zeus, Bubbles/Puck. 

 

Also your post is full of dumb anecdotes Corelli. I don't even know where to start. If you aren't following DOTA2, don't make a long post about it. You seem like a complete asshole.

I play lots of DOTA2 and watch competitive stuff all the time. I'm watching Tobi's stream right now! How much league do you play?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play lots of DOTA2 and watch competitive stuff all the time. I'm watching Tobi's stream right now! How much league do you play?

 

I don't play LoL which is why I didn't mention it at all in my post. 

 

Why would give Tobi views when Fnatic is playing Navi. 

 

e: I said mouz but I meant fnatic eu. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't play LoL which is why I didn't mention it at all in my post. 

 

Why would give Tobi views when Mouz is playing Navi.

Because that stream is totally borked. Edit: Well, seems to be working now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now