tegan

Super Metroid Appreciation Station

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So, I asked for your opinions and then promptly ignored most of them and went for Zero Mission first. I've just finished the 'Metroid' bit and have started the suitless stealthy bit. I have to say that I understand for the first time why everyone bangs on about Metroid! It's spectacularly well designed and satisfying to explore and upgrade. I'd be interested to play through he original now and see exactly what changed for Zero Mission.

Okay second recommendation request (that I'll probably ignore again!) - is Metroid II worth playing before Super? I know it ties in narratively a bit but how long is it? Anything more than 4-5 hours would be an ask, especially if it's a bit meh.

Third recommendation request! Definitely looking forward to something Zero Missiony on a larger screen and I'm just wondering if I should try tracking down one of those sexy Wii SNES pads to play Super with - does the Gamepad work well enough?

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Metroid II is super short, easy (though you'll want a map), and insubstantial. It's the only Game Boy game I've ever beaten. It ties into Super, but in a very easily-explained way. It would probably be a better use of your time to just read a synopsis or watch a video of the ending, because a lot of its additions to the mythos are either never really addressed again (namely the Metroid Life Cycle. A Metroid Queen appears in Other M and there's an Omega Metroid in Fusion, but that's it) or arguably trivial (it's the first game where Samus has the big round shoulders, for instance).

 

I like to play Super with the Wii U Pro Controller, but I did beat it with the Wii Classic Controller and I've played a lot of it with the gamepad. I wouldn't bother getting a special controller unless you were already interested in getting one.

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Thanks teg. The main reason I'm tempted by 2 is that I've got 1400 stars that I need to use before the end of Club Nintendo and the GB game is available. I do like super short too.

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Metroid 2 also introduces crouching!

I love Metroid 2 a whole lot, and some of it might have to do with the fact that it was my first Metroid, the one i played as a young kid, but it's a game i've gone back to and replayed a number of times and i always enjoy it a lot.

 

It's often kind of treated as the black sheep of the original trilogy, and it's understandable, the game gates progression in a very different way and plays out quite differently because of it. Instead of using abilities to gate progress, instead of puzzling through all the areas you've been to see how to apply your new abilities, you simply have to find and kill all of the Metroids in a given area in order to progress to the next. That will almost immediately make it sounds like an inferior game, but I think this does some neat things. It means each self-contained area is almost totally open-ended in a way that feels huge, gated from within by usually only one or two items to find. These open-ended spaces also mean the game takes on kind of a really tense, moody atmosphere where a huge boss fight could be around any corner. The game knows what it's doing too, and instead of the largely upbeat tunes of the previous Metroid, Metroid 2 has this utterly odd and ambient score that is supremely creepy and tense. It's easy to get lost though, the series didn't have an automap until Super, so if you're not good at building a mental map while playing games like this, you might find some frustration.

 

It's not Metroid at its best, it's definitely not comparable to Super or Zero Mission, but it's nowhere near the worst Metroid's been. I would even argue that it holds up better than the original Metroid, it seems like a more self-aware and purposeful design where the original Metroid feels primordial and almost accidental.

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It's not Metroid at its best, it's definitely not comparable to Super or Zero Mission, but it's nowhere near the worst Metroid's been. I would even argue that it holds up better than the original Metroid, it seems like a more self-aware and purposeful design where the original Metroid feels primordial and almost accidental.

 

I would like to echo this. OG Metroid doesn't hold up even a tenth as well as Metroid 2.

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 I would even argue that it holds up better than the original Metroid, it seems like a more self-aware and purposeful design where the original Metroid feels primordial and almost accidental.

 

I am definitely of the mind that the original Metroid doesn't hold up at all once you've played other installments.  It's confusing, punishing, and really requires dedication to creating a map, or else you'll be lost forever.

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I've never played a 3d metroid game despite being a huge fan of the prime games (or at least the first two). Would I be correct in assuming super metroid is what I should play first?

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Yes that's what I meant. and thanks, I shall get right on that.

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I think I prefer Zero Mission, but I think that might be because I had already played super and learned the mechanics. I should go back and play Super again.

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Zero Mission is like a more refined version of Super.  It took the things that were great about Super and smoothed out some of the rough edges like the movement.  I still personally prefer Super because of the little details and nostalgia, but I can't argue against Zero Mission being a superior game.

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Agreed. I was going to add the caveat that some people find Zero Mission to be a possibly superior version of that formula, but Super Metroid is absolutely a seminal game. I still think it's the one you should play, then play Zero Mission.

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Zero Mission strips out a lot of Super's more interesting quirks and mechanics, something true of both of the GBA games, and something that always disappointed me. I mean, and while Zero Mission's stealth sequence is very cool and ambitious, i prefer the purer focus of Super Metroid. I also feel Super's world design is way more interesting and elaborate than Zero Mission, which is somewhat restrained by trying to present itself as a simulacrum of the original Metroid's world layout. Super's definitely also the more atmospheric of the two games, it's dripping with moody ambience. (Though i do dig Zero Mission's energetic cartoon aesthetic.)

 

They're both unquestionably great games though.

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Zero Mission strips out a lot of Super's more interesting quirks and mechanics, something true of both of the GBA games, and something that always disappointed me. I mean, and while Zero Mission's stealth sequence is very cool and ambitious, i prefer the purer focus of Super Metroid. I also feel Super's world design is way more interesting and elaborate than Zero Mission, which is somewhat restrained by trying to present itself as a simulacrum of the original Metroid's world layout. Super's definitely also the more atmospheric of the two games, it's dripping with moody ambience. (Though i do dig Zero Mission's energetic cartoon aesthetic.)

 

They're both unquestionably great games though.

 

I agree with that.  The atmosphere is what I really love about Super.  It's full of great little details like the two heads that turn to face you in the elevator or the spotlight that turns on after you get the morph ball.  But Zero Mission controls better without a doubt.  I would love a remake version of Super that kept that environment and just put in Zero Mission's enhanced movement.

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I was thinking more, and I believe it's because I never once got frustrated in Zero. I don't know whether that's because it controls better, or as I said before, I knew the mechanics, I knew to just bomb every nook and cranny when I was lost. The stealth section added a lot in my opinion - I really enjoyed that part. It was totally unexpected, and incredibly satisfying.

 

In Super I got lost a lot. I didn't know what I was doing, and there were sections that I had to google to figure out (that fucking wall you can walk through after Riddley still makes me angry). Not saying it's a bad game, because it's clearly not, it's phenomenal. I'm happy that it was my entry into the series, as it was so good it made me want to play all of the Metroidvanias ever. 

 

Side note: how close are the Souls games to Metroidvanias? I noticed someone mentioning that they're the modern interpretation of the genre, and I think I agree. They're missing is the equipment needed to proceed though, which is really an essential part of the genre 

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Super is undoubtedly a product of its time (and in several ways ahead of its time).  If it's your first time playing, you WILL get lost on occasion.  That can be both good and bad.  In a few ways I feel like Zero Mission held your hand a little too much, to the point that it literally places a marker on your map telling you where to go and puts icons on the map telling you what rooms had items in them.  While its still open in the way that Metroid is, having the game direct you like that does take away some of the fun of discovery.  One of the things I really loved about Super was getting a new item, then going back and finding all the new places I could explore without any sort of guidance. 

 

I can understand that being frustrating as well, and at times it probably was for me.  I'm going to be an old man for a second and say that playing Super without the ability to quickly look something up led to some really satisfying moments for me.  If I were to play it now for the first time, I'd probably end up googling too because who has that kind of time these days.  But there's definitely something to be said for the pure experience.

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Super Metroid does put a dot on the map if there's a item in the room, but it doesn't call out what's in there.

 

This is the thing I saw that made me understand I could like speed runs. Krauser is my spirit animal.

 

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 In a few ways I feel like Zero Mission held your hand a little too much, to the point that it literally places a marker on your map telling you where to go and puts icons on the map telling you what rooms had items in them. 

 

 If I were to play it now for the first time, I'd probably end up googling too because who has that kind of time these days. 

 

I don't remember the markers in Zero. I felt like I steam rolled through that game because it always made sense where to go. When it comes to googling things, I try to avoid it but that section (you can spot it around 52:15 in the bottom right hand section of the video Badfinger posted) drove me nuts. I spent an hour looking for where to go, only to find it's a bullshit wall you can walk through that has no indication that you can do so. Nothing else in the game is like that! 

I'm still pissed that it's there, it's impossible to know unless you ask someone or randomly bump into it. That design decision implies to me either a) there was info out there that people would eventually find, or B) that the creators expected people to bump into walls randomly to figure out where to go, which is plain unreasonable.

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Super Metroid does put a dot on the map if there's a item in the room, but it doesn't call out what's in there.

 

If I recall correctly, the dot is only for items that are sitting out in the open.  There are plenty of other hidden items not displayed on the map, and if I recall correctly, the map also doesn't show every single room - some stuff is still hidden from the basic map to encourage exploration.  For example, in this map (http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/SuperMetroid/SuperMetroidMapCrateria.png - warning, this is a MASSIVE map and likely won't work on mobile), the passageway above and to the left of Samus' ship doesn't appear on the map that you can download from the map station - it will only appear on your map once you've uncovered it.

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I was thinking more, and I believe it's because I never once got frustrated in Zero. I don't know whether that's because it controls better, or as I said before, I knew the mechanics, I knew to just bomb every nook and cranny when I was lost. The stealth section added a lot in my opinion - I really enjoyed that part. It was totally unexpected, and incredibly satisfying.

 

In Super I got lost a lot. I didn't know what I was doing, and there were sections that I had to google to figure out (that fucking wall you can walk through after Riddley still makes me angry). Not saying it's a bad game, because it's clearly not, it's phenomenal. I'm happy that it was my entry into the series, as it was so good it made me want to play all of the Metroidvanias ever. 

 

Keep in mind that Zero Mission gives you waypoints to follow on the map and that the world is generally more linearly laid out, it's a huge step back from how guided Fusion was, but it's still more guided than Super. (Though, on the other hand, it's missing the x-ray scanner from Super.)

 

Side note: how close are the Souls games to Metroidvanias? I noticed someone mentioning that they're the modern interpretation of the genre, and I think I agree. They're missing is the equipment needed to proceed though, which is really an essential part of the genre 

 

If you accept that you lose the traversal mechanics metaphor for unlocking progress gates and just have literal keys to unlock most gates, while also still retaining difficulty gates in the form of the game's bosses, there's a strong argument to make for Dark Souls essentially being the 3D Castlevania we always deserved.

 

It's not as if the world design in Dark Souls is a uniquely Metroid/Castlevania thing though, it's definitely a pretty common element of japanese game design to have intricately gated worlds that twist back around on themselves as part of the intended flow. (I've seen people argue that its equivalent in western design are games born out of the Ultima Underworld tradition, and if you think about how you loop through a playthrough of System Shock 2, it's easy to see the parallel.)

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SS2 has level design like that? I needed a good excuse to finally play all the way through it.

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Yeah, it kind of totally does, especially if you want to think about abilities in the character progression, such as hacking and telekinesis, as akin to how the traversal mechanics of a metroidvania open up access more equipment for you. Fundamentally though, the normal arc through the game, created by the pass codes and key cards you set out to track down, has you winding back and forth through SS2's believably constructed environment in a fashion not dissimilar at all from a metroidvania-style world design. You constantly revisit old areas to engage with new avenues, System Shock 2 is one big interconnected environment. (Plus a few slightly smaller and more linear ones.)

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Well, I really fancied playing Super Metroid with a Snes pad so I just ebayed one. Need an adapter to connect it to a Wiimote and then I'm ready. Really looking forward to it - Metroid and the Snes in general have always been a large gap in my experience. Roughly how many hours is it for a runthrough?

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If you know what you're doing, less than two hours, but for a first playthrough, probably anywhere from 6-10. Maybe more if you try to do 100% on a blind run.

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