Idle Thumbs 106: Imagine the Man

[Sean]

Could your make a spreadshirt store like GAF? I've actually made a t shirt on spreadshirt before its really easy (

)

 

Although now thinking about it i dont know how bigger cut of the monies you would get, probably a pretty small percentage if anything....but, you wouldn't have to deal with the busy side whatsoever

 

Yeah, we really really really don't want to do this. By having our own store and sourcing things ourselves we have total control of the  quality of the product and see way more of the back-end. Not sure if you ended up with a Kickstarter shirt or not but anyone who did can definitely attest to the quality/attention to detail we won't get by doing something like spreadshirt or dazzle. 

[Jake]

You wish it was called dazzle. Unfortunately, it's "zazzle."

[tberton]

Just finished the podcast. You guys really hit the nail on the head about what I like about Tammany Hall, especially how every actions fits in cleanly and sensibly with the theme of the game.

 

I'm a bit confused about Chris' talk about luck-driven vs. mechanics-driven games. Luck is a mechanic! The dice-rolling in Risk is a very clearly defined and consistently applied mechanic. I think that the better distinction is luck-based design vs. skill-based design, which most games have in different proportions and which Chris seems to prefer. Mechanics-driven games are more opposed to content-driven games (although maybe the better terms would be consistent vs. specific mechanics), which is a distinction that Chris has brought up in the past.

 

As for the point-of-no-return, yeah, Tammany Hall does have one, but so do most skill-driven games. And while Tammany doesn't have an obvious catch-up mechanic, the way the Mayor and the city offices work (especially the Deputy Mayor) acts as a soft catch-up mechanic, which as you play more you'll realize is what the entire game revolves around.

 

Also, I may be reading too much into this, but you guys seemed to think that Tammany Hall is a fictionalized setting. It's not and that's part of what makes the game's theme so great.

[feelthedarkness]

It can be frustrating when all strategy is at the mercy of dice, where a bad roll negates anything you planned. I think it can also be a bit rough when there is no chaotic/random element, because it leads towards "solutions" for games, like the default Dominion box. 

 

The Tammany Hall jobs can get hilarious. In the last game we played, the chief of police traded between the same two players, who basically spent their terms arresting each other's immigrants. 

[Jake]

Also, I may be reading too much into this, but you guys seemed to think that Tammany Hall is a fictionalized setting. It's not and that's part of what makes the game's theme so great.

No, I think we all knew that it is a piece of history. It's fascinating/exciting how well it captures the way you imagine the political machinations of that time and place working through such simple interlocking systems.

[tegan]

Super Metroid is almost entirely gated with mechanics, isn't it? You need crazy missile type X to bash through this wall, or you need the grappling beam to swing across this otherwise insane gap! I'm sure there are parts of the game which you can complete if you have near-exploit-worthy levels of wall hopping traversal skill, but that's not explicit in the design of the game, right? I'm not anywhere near a skilled Metroid player, so while I know about speed run type scenarios, my understanding of Metroid design is "the player sees an interesting place that they can't go but find intriguing, and then when they gain a new unlock or ability they realize they can backtrack to that interesting place and discover they now have the mechanical means to access it." That's pretty different than core-skill-based gating.

 

 

Super Metroid is very deliberately filled with things you can bypass with either inherent skill or the first tools you get. Specifically; walljumping, shinesparking, and bomb-jumping. There are some rooms with outcrops or bumps that seem to have been chosen at random for aesthetic purposes, but actually are specifically placed so as to give you a spot you can shinespark to, to keep a corridor from being long enough to let you build up a speed boost, etc. There's an absurd attention to detail in the level design of that game. I'm no speedrunner and I've grabbed items ahead of time through pure skill in that game.

[Sean]

You wish it was called dazzle. Unfortunately, it's "zazzle."

 

Dazzle is a DOTA lord. http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Dazzle

[melmer]

Why are we not surprised

Yeah, we really really really don't want to do this. By having our own store and sourcing things ourselves we have total control of the quality of the product and see way more of the back-end. Not sure if you ended up with a Kickstarter shirt or not but anyone who did can definitely attest to the quality/attention to detail we won't get by doing something like spreadshirt or dazzle.

Yeah you're absolutely right, those T-shirts would probably be faded to all hell after a few washes. Those sites are probably only good for one off stag do t shirts and the like. I was just thinking of the quick and easy answer (which just so happen to be my two middle names)

You guys should totally open a sweatshop in the idle thumbs office, you could employ all the local immigrant children. Their only time off would be when you are recording the weekly podcast. I bet Breckon could run a good sweatshop, I can picture him now sat in the corner one leg up on a table, shirt unbuttoned down to his navel, glistening with sweat, playing cool jazz on a saxophone, only stopping occasionally to moisten his lips or to scream at the children to get back to work.

[youmeyou]

Dishonored has skill-based gating to a very limited extent. Except it's kind of inverted. It's usually quite possible to blink through a level's upper areas and beat it in a shorter-than-designed period of time. Harvey Smith has talked about journalists at expos complaining that the demo Kaldwin's Bridge level was broken since they could finish it in 5 minutes by blinking along the rooftops. Much of the fun of Dishonored came from exploring the world's nooks and crannies, however, so even when playing with a great familiarity with the game and each level I still refrained from taking the shortest path. I guess in this case I was self-gating, which I think is necessary to get everything out of Dishonored. Which is interesting.

[tegan]

LOOK AT WHAT YOU MADE ME DO, RODKIN

 

 

[elmuerte]

Yeah, we really really really don't want to do this. By having our own store and sourcing things ourselves we have total control of the  quality of the product and see way more of the back-end. Not sure if you ended up with a Kickstarter shirt or not but anyone who did can definitely attest to the quality/attention to detail we won't get by doing something like spreadshirt or dazzle. 

 

The two T-Shirts I bought from the old (european) spreadshirt idlethumbs store were actually quite good quality, both shirt and print. Not sure if what the quality of the US spreadshirt is. Anyways ...

[melmer]

(We should open our own idle thumbs bootleg store, you can handle the business and I'll model the tshirts)

We'll be like those guys who hang around outside gigs selling knock off band tshirts and 'we have come for your dealer' posters (an alien smoking a spliff)

Lol, seriously this poster was EVERYWHERE like 15 yeas ago. I actually had it on my bedroom wall, god knows what my parents thought

[Henroid]

The Death of Nick Breckon 2: What Is This

[pabosher]

I very rarely have much to say in these threads, but I just wanted to say Great Job this week guys. I genuinely thought it was a brilliant episode, and up there amongst the best of the show. I received a ridiculous number of looks for the number of times I burst out laughing while trying to get some minor shopping done in town during lunch. Really great. Too many to remember correctly, but I thought Chris's Obama minute was freaking brilliant.

[Badfinger]

Chris you do a really good Obama impression. The cadence and inflection are perfect.

[Cbirdsong]

Sounds like I definitely need to check out Tammany Hall. If you guys are looking for a good co-op game where the theme and mechanics are almost perfectly intertwined, I suggest Space Alert. The players are the crew of a spaceship, and have to jump into deep space for 10 real-time minutes to do a scan. The game enforces the time limit with an audio track of the ship's computer, which also announces enemy appearances and other special events, so you're forced to work together and rely on the other players. This Rock, Paper, Shotgun article sells it better than I can. I heartily recommend it.

[Henroid]

Chris you do a really good Obama impression. The cadence and inflection are perfect.

It kinda reminds me of That Guy from the EA shareholder meeting.

[voxn]

Dark Souls would make for a really good stream, especially if none of you have played it before!

[tegan]

STILL GOIN' AT IT

 

 

 

I've never deliberately done any sequence breaking in this game before. I'm not even sure what I want to do next since I'm now capable of traversing nearly the entire map. I'll probably grab the Speed Booster next since I should be able to cover just about every area after that.

[Chris]

Just a quick factual correction: LA Noire takes place post-WWII so its in the late 40s, not 30s. Just bringing that up since you guys got into a brief disagreement about the elderly fellow that checked the game out.

 

I KNEW IT

 

Also, I may be reading too much into this, but you guys seemed to think that Tammany Hall is a fictionalized setting. It's not and that's part of what makes the game's theme so great.

 

Man it bums me out if we gave that impression. We were definitely all aware of the actual history, which is mainly why it was resonant. Many Boss Tweed jokes were made.

[Chris]

Sounds like I definitely need to check out Tammany Hall. If you guys are looking for a good co-op game where the theme and mechanics are almost perfectly intertwined, I suggest Space Alert. The players are the crew of a spaceship, and have to jump into deep space for 10 real-time minutes to do a scan. The game enforces the time limit with an audio track of the ship's computer, which also announces enemy appearances and other special events, so you're forced to work together and rely on the other players. This Rock, Paper, Shotgun article sells it better than I can. I heartily recommend it.

 

Yeah, Space Alert is hilarious. I've played it before but not with other Thumbs. We should definitely give it a go.

[Problem Machine]

Man it bums me out if we gave that impression. We were definitely all aware of the actual history, which is mainly why it was resonant. Many Boss Tweed jokes were made.

 

I didn't get that impression, but you did make a lot of references to it being 'just like a scene from the movies.' It was clear to me that you were talking about historical and historical fiction films, but I can see how it could be misconstrued.

[Cleinhun]

Clothing that's classy and subtle, perhaps with only an Idle Thumb on it, or a logo, or a small wizard hat.

 

When I first read that I thought "a small wizard hat" was a separate item. I would totally buy an idle thumbs branded wizard hat (disclaimer: no I wouldn't).

[Nijhazer]

I'm just at the bit where you guys are asking for feedback on what type of merchandise I'd like. Well, I would love some quality apparel, but not t-shirts and the like, because I find I'm wearing those less and less. I'd like something I can wear to work. I'm reminded of the Penny Arcade line of polo shirts. Clothing that's classy and subtle, perhaps with only an Idle Thumb on it, or a logo, or a small wizard hat. Alternatively, a good quality hoodie to wear at home.

 

I came here to post this, exactly this, right down to the First Party reference. For quality, classy Idle Thumbs polos, I'd pay what First Party is asking, though I don't know if the economies of scale work to the Thumbs' favor.

 

I'd also be interested in an Idle Thumbs bicycle jersey, but I suspect I'm alone there.

[Nijhazer]

It's been a few weeks since there was a moment in an Idle Thumbs episode that nearly caused me to drive off the road and into a tree because I was laughing so hard. This week's hesitant rendition of "Wuxtry" almost got me in big trouble.