Jake

Idle Thumbs 103: A Person-Shaped Thing is a Person

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There was, of course, the spectacularly failed Wii Music. But yes, I feel much the same: the excitement of yet another Mario or Zelda has long since diminished.

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The Wii U to me seems more like another obvious continuation of Nintendo's "withered technology" philosophy, something that has been with them pretty much from the beginning of their Video games business.

Whether it's the right thing to do is a good question, i feel they've definitely put themselves in a difficult position, but the approach has always treated them well in the past. (Excepting the rather qualified success of the Gamecube or the N64, which were contrarily very much attempting to be technological powerhouses.)

I'm absolutely not ready to count the Wii U out, Nintendo's been down this road before. We've seen a lot of Nintendo consoles seem utterly dire for the first year or so and then just flip a switch. (It is happening with the 3DS, there is currently nothing i am more excited about than that thing.)

As for new franchises out of the Wii console cycle, i think Xenoblade is a pretty fucking incredible thing, but i can certainly admit that i'm kind of reaching by pointing to a game that just barely got released.

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I can tell you that I know a ton of people who are going to buy a Wii U in a year or two. Once the real system seller games are here and the price has gone down a notch, the sales will come. I do not expect the Wii U to tank at all. Neither will it become a huge success. It'll do just fine in the long run. It'll be a Gamecube, and maybe even become an audience favorite too, when all is said and done.

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I don't think the N64 was really trying to be a powerhouse. It doesn't even have its own sound chip.

 

In addition to the withered technology philosophy, I feel like the Wii U is really playing to Nintendo's creative side. They deliberately designed it to take advantage of all the crazy crap they've been trying to do for the last decade or so: multiple screens, touch interface, motion controls, asymmetrical gameplay, stuff like that. They won't always succeed with the strategy, but I think it's smart of them to design their consoles to be interesting rather than trying to take part in a power contest that they know they can't win.

If anything I think the Wii U's biggest failing is the complete lack of software. It's been five months and I can only think of one memorable game released outside of the launch lineup. They keep showing us all of these great games coming to the system eventually, then pushing them back further and further. Remember how Pikmin 3 was supposed to come out in November and now it's coming in August?

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The Super Nintendo and the GBA were by two favorite Nintendo systems and they were also technologically adept for their time of release and had robust third party support. They were also incredibly straightforward.

I think Link To The Past is one of the best, most tight and harmonious games ever made, and it's depressing and incredibly telling to see that modern Nintendo's creative way to sequelize it is to put a chalk drawing of your character on a wall. It makes it seem very much like they didn't realize what they had in the first place, or if they do they just don't care. Maybe they take it for granted that their underlying game blueprints are great, and that everyone else takes that for granted -- they're the expensive and understated men's suit of the game world -- so they're now convinced only way to make people pay attention is to affix a loud spinning polka dot bow tie on top and hope that brings people in long enough to notice what's underneath?

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I don't think the Wii U is going to recapture the family market like they did last-generation. iOS devices are already there and won handily. They might pull in self-identified gamers as they build a stronger collection of games, but we're talking at least an order of magnitude difference between families and people-buying-multiple-consoles.

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I loved my N64 and Gamecube and I think a big part of that was due to the fact that they were at least at the same relative level as their competition at the time. I never really felt that what I played on the Gamecube was that noticeably inferior to PS2 or Xbox games, at least nowhere near as noticeable as the gap between Wii and PS3/Xbox360.

 

I think their "withered technology" philosophy is good in concept but my opinion is that they are losing track of just how fast technology is moving. The reason I originally mentioned Moore's Law was to illustrate how much further ahead today's technology is from the technology they are using and that that gap will continue to grow. I agree with Tegan that Nintendo has a smart strategy with what they are doing but I feel that isn't the case as much outside their ecosystem. When I consider the power that even lower end pc's have now compared to the WiiU and the fact that everyone has a smart phone that supports at least 720p with multi-touch (WiiU screen lacks both) capabilities, I find it very hard to get excited about this system. Especially when coupled with my diminished excitement over more iterations of the same Nintendo franchises.

 

It will be interesting to see if this console pulls people in like the Wii did. Since the Wii originally came out the general population has become much more tech savvy in big part due to the advent of smart phones and tablets so I wonder if people view the WiiU as innovative as they did with the Wii. Don't get me wrong, I actually think Nintendo will end up doing fine in the long run but I think it will solely be Nintendo's franchises that will carry it through, and that just isn't enough for me right now.

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Gamecube was actually in some ways -more- powerful than the competition, from my understanding. I dunno. Nintendo gives me such mixed feelings these days. I don't think focusing away from the tech race is a bad idea, and sometimes Nintendo's wacky ideas really pay off in novel and intriguing ways, as they did with the DS. But for my money the Wii was a huge misstep, with its main innovation being a control method that's a long, long way from ideal for traditional games as envisioned to date (though it's okay-ish as a poor man's mouse or lightgun), forced onto a library that consisted almost entirely of traditional games interspersed with novelty minigame collections. I don't want to say that there will never be game designs for which the Wiimote and nunchuk are a natural and necessary control scheme that could not be delivered in any other way, but I can tell you I've not found a single one that was made for the Wii.

 

So it's more than a little disappointing to me that Nintendo's next foray into the console space is a shinier Wii with another gadget attached. Again, I'm willing to give them time (though I won't be buying a Wii U in the near future) to prove that either of those things make for a compelling, unique gaming experience, but my hopes aren't exactly high.

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I think from a pure rendering standpoint, GameCube was measurably more powerful than the PS2, but maybe not quite as nice as the original Xbox. Except it had those tiny discs so nobody could actually fit ports from the other platforms onto the GameCube without spanning multiple discs and stuff. That blew my mind. The same way the N64 was cartridge based when PS1 was CD-ROM based... So weird.

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I think from a pure rendering standpoint, GameCube was measurably more powerful than the PS2, but maybe not quite as nice as the original Xbox. Except it had those tiny discs so nobody could actually fit ports from the other platforms onto the GameCube without spanning multiple discs and stuff. That blew my mind. The same way the N64 was cartridge based when PS1 was CD-ROM based... So weird.

I believe this is accurate, yeah. Significantly more powerful than the PS2, but just shy of the original X-box.

The Gamecube ended up being in this really weird place where it was a terrifically powerful little piece of hardware, and nobody really knew or cared.

It was really only Nintendo's own games that were pushing the hardware, things like Metroid Prime and Wind Waker and F-Zero GX. (Personally, i feel the GC saw some of Nintendo's very best games.) There were things happening on the GC that were arguably more advanced and more impressive than things happening on the X-box, but with no real support from any of the 3rd parties, they were really off in their own little pocket. It didn't make sense to continue trying to compete in that space. (Why exactly Nintendo gradually lost in the cross-platform arena and lost the support of so many 3rd parties is an entire topic of its own with many elements to consider, but it was a gradual decline that started as far back as the SNES.)

It's then easy to see why Nintendo embraced that aforementioned "lateral thinking with withered technology" philosophy, something that served them very well for many years in the handheld space, for their declining home console business.

For that first little while, at least, it sure seemed to be working out for the Wii. Nintendo didn't really seem to know what to do with its surprise success though, they became seemingly very indecisive. A lot of weird decisions and general inaction were shown during that thing's life. (There's also just the matter of the the Wii's motion control being kind of fundamentally broken. It was an experiment that didn't work out, but one whose results they had to live with. It's hard to ignore that many of the Wii's best games do not use the features the console was sold on.)

Nintendo seems to be taking on a much more proactive stance lately, however. It's certainly working out on the 3DS front, but it's too early to pass any judgement on what the Wii U will become. (Really, every new console sucks for about a year. If that time passes and things haven't improved, then it's a lemon.)

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Yeah, I don't know if we can really judge any new console until at least a year in. Hell, if you'd told me two years ago that there would soon come a time when I play my PS3 nearly every day and only sometimes contemplate plugging my 360 back in, I'd have laughed in your face. That's where we are today though. I trust enough in Nintendo that I bought their system last month, and I'm waiting to see where they take me. Even with the generally slow time that the Wii had, every time I had a new game to play on it, I had a fantastic time. It was, for me, a seldom played but never disappointing experience. I hope that the Wii U will, in time, correct the first half of that statement, but I trust that even if Nintendo can't fix that part, the second will hold true.

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I agree, the WiiU will likely hit its stride if Nintendo's past is at all indicative of their future. I remember the N64 launched with 2 games: Pilotwings and Super Mario 64 but by the time Goldeneye came out in summer of '97 that system was kicking ass between Mario Kart 64, Wayne Gretzky's 3d Hockey, Star Fox 64, Shadows of the Empire, and others. My friends and I had countless sleepovers playing the shit out of those games despite the N64's incredibly slow launch. 

 

I am overall optimistic that this will in some way carry through for the WiiU but as I mentioned earlier, I worry that the weak hardware and constant milking of the same old franchises may make it a little tougher for Nintendo to get people excited about buying this system.

 

And for the record, the Gamecube was my favorite system of that generation. I agree with above posters that Nintendo did some amazing stuff with that system. I will never forget how awesome it was when they introduced the GBA link cable with Four Swords Adventures and Wind Waker, plus all the amazing unique games. Also, I never knew that it was technically superior to the PS2 in some regards. Thanks for learning me something new guys!

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I agree, the WiiU will likely hit its stride if Nintendo's past is at all indicative of their future. I remember the N64 launched with 2 games: Pilotwings and Super Mario 64 but by the time Goldeneye came out in summer of '97 that system was kicking ass between Mario Kart 64, Wayne Gretzky's 3d Hockey, Star Fox 64, Shadows of the Empire, and others. My friends and I had countless sleepovers playing the shit out of those games despite the N64's incredibly slow launch. 

 

I am overall optimistic that this will in some way carry through for the WiiU but as I mentioned earlier, I worry that the weak hardware and constant milking of the same old franchises may make it a little tougher for Nintendo to get people excited about buying this system.

I think there's actually some pretty exciting things on the horizon for the Wii U. I mean, what are some of the upcoming games Nintendo has for the system? Wonderful 101? Bayonetta 2? "

"? Surely we're not going to go and claim that Pikmin has been done to death already.

Don't get me wrong, you want Mario? Nintendo's got you fucking covered. You are going to see all of those old Nintendo franchises again.

Just, on the broader view, i'm actually fairly optimistic about what the Wii U's output will eventually become, i just hope its potential market space doesn't vanish during the upcoming holidays. That whole blue ocean thing has collapsed, they got complacent and smartphones swooped in and ate that lunch. Nintendo is back to fighting for gamer dollars, whether they like it or not, and they're going to be in the unenviable position of being the Dreamcast of the upcoming console cycle.

 

And for the record, the Gamecube was my favorite system of that generation. I agree with above posters that Nintendo did some amazing stuff with that system. I will never forget how awesome it was when they introduced the GBA link cable with Four Swords Adventures and Wind Waker, plus all the amazing unique games. Also, I never knew that it was technically superior to the PS2 in some regards. Thanks for learning me something new guys!

By many accounts, the GC was a beastly little thing, it was just scarcely ever really put to work, but things like RE4 were significantly downgraded in their PS2 ports. (I've seen some people argue that none of the subsequent versions look as good as the GC version, since they had to pull out and replace the original lighting model which had been coded specifically for the GC's hardware.)

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Whenever Factor 5's Kid Icarus game happens.

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Isn't it nice to just swing around with a big, nice, hammer? Haven't you ever wanted to do that? Well, now the Wii can bring you exactly that in Project H.A.M.M.E.R., coming to the Americas in Spring 2007.

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I think there's actually some pretty exciting things on the horizon for the Wii U. I mean, what are some of the upcoming games Nintendo has for the system? Wonderful 101? Bayonetta 2? "

"? Surely we're not going to go and claim that Pikmin has been done to death already.

Don't get me wrong, you want Mario? Nintendo's got you fucking covered. You are going to see all of those old Nintendo franchises again.

Just, on the broader view, i'm actually fairly optimistic about what the Wii U's output will eventually become, i just hope its potential market space doesn't vanish during the upcoming holidays. That whole blue ocean thing has collapsed, they got complacent and smartphones swooped in and ate that lunch. Nintendo is back to fighting for gamer dollars, whether they like it or not, and they're going to be in the unenviable position of being the Dreamcast of the upcoming console cycle.

 

By many accounts, the GC was a beastly little thing, it was just scarcely ever really put to work, but things like RE4 were significantly downgraded in their PS2 ports. (I've seen some people argue that none of the subsequent versions look as good as the GC version, since they had to pull out and replace the original lighting model which had been coded specifically for the GC's hardware.)

 

For what it's worth, I remember people being tangibly excited as all hell about the N64 in a way that I don't think is even remotely comparable to the general apathy towards the Wii U. The N64 may not have had the strongest launch lineup, but it was still The New Nintendo Video Game System, and the Wii U doesn't have that palpable energy at all.

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UNDOUBTEDLY.

 

If you want to talk about broader public perception, Nintendo has a goddamned mountain to climb.

For the N64 comparison, that thing was Nintendo entering into the modern Video game era with their first polygonal game console, riding a high from the SNES and what are still some of the best games ever seen on a Nintendo platform.

The Wii U gets to follow in the wake of broken promises and the apathy that it fostered, never mind the fumbled marketing that had people thinking, for months, that there was no new console and that its tablet was just another Wii peripheral.

The Wii U is in a pretty scary place, and i think we'll probably find out by the end of the year how much of a future it has. Given Nintendo's history, I'm pretty sure the Wii U is going to hang around for the duration, it's just a question of how much it will matter. With Nintendo's reoriented core-gamer focus, it's going to be in a tough spot against the new systems.

I also don't think the 3DS would have turned around as dramatically as it has if the Vita had been a viable competitor, but Sony has fumbled that ball in a lot of pretty profound ways.

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I guess I am one of the few people who actually thinks the gimmick of the WiiU is compelling. The tablet controller allows for local asymmetric multiplayer with hidden information, which is typically only seen in board games. If nintendo is serious about supporting indie devs (at gdc they announced compatibility with unity), I wouldn't be at all surprised if we start seeing a number of worthwhile multiplayer games.

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As for how the tablet pertains to local same-system multiplayer, it's not really that interesting to me personally, i simply don't play games in that way anymore. (I strongly suspect I'm in the majority on this.)

Beyond that, it's kind of a DS-like setup, it's not wildly unfamiliar ground. I don't doubt that there will be some really creative, interesting uses of it, but you're probably also going to see a whole lot of inventory and map screens.

The gestures Nintendo has been making towards supporting indies that want to develop for the Wii U are potentially a much more interesting story to tell, but i don't think we've seen that bear any fruit yet, if it ever will.

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As for how the tablet pertains to local same-system multiplayer, it's not really that interesting to me personally, i simply don't play games in that way anymore. (I strongly suspect I'm in the majority on this.)

 

 

I'm sure you are in the majority. I wasn't saying it was a smart business decision, just that I, personally, am interested in this specific area of game design.

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For what it's worth, I remember people being tangibly excited as all hell about the N64 in a way that I don't think is even remotely comparable to the general apathy towards the Wii U. The N64 may not have had the strongest launch lineup, but it was still The New Nintendo Video Game System, and the Wii U doesn't have that palpable energy at all.

 

Recently uncovered documentary footage of the zeitgeist:

 

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I gotta say Sno, you make some damn good and informed arguments. I've definitely had a more pessimistic view of the WiiU but you've made some really good points. I'm used to hearing people (on other forums) make these baseless claims about how they are absolutely convinced that the WiiU is on the verge of exploding and will be the greatest system ever and that any naysayers are just Nintendo haters.

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