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Jake

Idle Thumbs 101: Introduction to Video Games

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I have to really disagree with you guys on the whole review coverage of games. I do totally agree that if you don't beat a game and review it you need to let your audience know. Maybe I'm being idealistic since I only cover indie games in my current profession. More my issue is that you can have less reviews and only review games you finish. Giantbomb and a whole circuit of youtubers have shown that gamers don't always need the title of review of blank to come to your website. There is a whole profession of here is the first couple hours of a game my thoughts. I hope this continues in the future and could be the issue of a kind changing of the guard where traditional media exists but you also have better catering to the audience. Also, I guess it worries me that if you can't finish a game for even a job, doesn't that mean most games are really poor quality at the very least with knowing when to end.

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What I don't understand how to reconcile, and this is an important but often dismissed area of games criticism, is the difference in difficulty level.

Bioshock: Infinite on hard is a completely different game than on normal. It's night and day. I was playing the game through on hard and not only was it very frustrating, but it really highlighted a lot of design decisions that were sub-optimal. Eventually it became such a chore that I just wanted to finish the game and play on normal, but on normal literally not one iota of the combat design matters: it's so simplistic that the vigors, tears, and skyrails simply serve to complicate an already jumbled mess of combat options.

Contrast this to the original Bioshock, where, with the exception of some of the crazier "there's fifty splicers running at you at once" areas and the last boss fight, the combat is extremely interesting, filled with reasonable options that are clear to the player and fun to put into practice. Trapping a big daddy with an immense web of electrified crossbow traps and herding him into an area with a turret you've hacked is way more fun and clear to the player than jumping on a quickly moving skyrail then getting inexplicably killed in two seconds because a handyman electried it offscreen.

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...the "way to make things better" is to go back in time/reality to stop the player from becoming the bad-guy (in a bit of logic that doesn't actually work). Specifically, that's dealing with a white guy's guilt about racism rather than dealing with racism itself. It speaks volumes that this is the solution rather than using that *exact same power* to go back in time and prevent the massacre at Wounded Knee or otherwise take tangible action against the horrors that are supposedly the root cause of the player's anguish.

 

Actually, that could have been an ending or climax that actually followed some logical sense, dealt with the racism issue (in an admittedly ham-handed fashion, but at least in some way), and worked in conjunction with the game's "shoot-man-in-face" gameplay.

Man I didn't even consider that alternative ending.  That would have been so much better, and less self-centered.

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n response to the idea of curated gaming journalism: I'd love to see a decent, accesible gaming interest site with more of a feminist or (especially) queer bent.

 

I don't consider it a primary news source, or even read it regularly, but I've always enjoyed opinion pieces from http://gaygamer.net that friends have linked me.

 

 

 

Yes! Such a good site.

 

You wrote a piece for them recently, right? I seem to have forgotten what it was about, but I recall that it was good. Might have to give them a second look.

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I haven't listened to the cast yet (I'm waiting for the annotated YouTube version so I can skip spoilers), but I noticed that the new Wuxtry is here to stay. Does that, by chance, mean new music is being recorded for the EP? Or just new songs in general? :)

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This is also sort of how I felt as well. Colombia never felt like an actual place to me, but more this sort of symbolic mytheo-poetic journey that evoked the idea of American Exceptionalism rather than a believable place that might have existed had we lived in a universe where there was enough helium for a cloud city to exist.

 

I enjoyed Kieron Gillen's take on Infinite.

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/06/about-a-girl-assorted-thoughts-on-bioshock-infinite/

 

I don't necessarily agree with every individual point, but looking at Colombia through the lens of not trying to be real, but rather trying to be HYPER-REAL helps me put a lot of things in perspective.

 

Additionally, I don't think you should HAVE to view outside discussion to be able to get things out of a game, but I don't think in depth discussion is a detriment. Isn't that what a book club is for reading? Even if you like the writing, or enjoy the story, that doesn't mean that every book is good at surfacing what its meaning actually is. That doesn't really exist formally for games. Some of that sort of erupts naturally from podcasts, but that's not actually what this cast (or any I know of) is specifically for.

 

I have trouble being critical about saying "I didn't get everything I think might be there from this story". I am coming to this from this perspective: I am a TERRIBLE critical reader. Listening to the book podcasts, I know that I do not have that level of critical commentary of a piece in my brain, but I could still hold the same level of appreciation (or disdain) for the work without it. That's not to say that you shouldn't be critical of how the story is told of course. Having 3 overlapping sources of plot exposition at once (tears, Liz, audiolog) is bad presentation. Obfuscating or layering less critical parts of the story isn't bad by necessity.

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Double postin' to cover other small, less coherent thoughts-

 

Sean, I like DOTA talks. Talk about the dota hole you go down. I am in the equal and opposite LoL Hole. 

 

Re: Infinite, responding to a post in the thread one of the things I genuinely admired was that it gave you all the information you needed to know about what Booker really was, had Booker heavily imply what he was, but never went out of its way to tell you what Wounded Knee, the Pinkertons, and the Boxer rebellion for Comstock were. I LOVED that. There are no heroes at Wounded Knee. Slate and Comstock are both disillusioned.

 

 

With regard to reviews, I had wondered if you were going to bring up Giant Bomb. That's mostly a website not about reviewing games. Somewhat opposite to Patrick stepping outside the normal GB bubble and getting backlash, I think it's refreshing, while sometimes frustrating, for them (mostly Jeff and Ryan) to be completely up front that they HAVE a bubble. There are games that Giant Bomb will never cover or play, and they will flat out tell you that they have biases towards coverage. But because they are direct, they have also established a clear voice about their styles and preferences. When they do review something or weigh in with an opinion, you have the knowledge of them personally to know how their preferences color their statements.

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Double postin' to cover other small, less coherent thoughts-

 

Sean, I like DOTA talks. Talk about the dota hole you go down. I am in the equal and opposite LoL Hole.

I am right there with you on that one.

With regard to reviews, I had wondered if you were going to bring up Giant Bomb. That's mostly a website not about reviewing games. Somewhat opposite to Patrick stepping outside the normal GB bubble and getting backlash, I think it's refreshing, while sometimes frustrating, for them (mostly Jeff and Ryan) to be completely up front that they HAVE a bubble. There are games that Giant Bomb will never cover or play, and they will flat out tell you that they have biases towards coverage. But because they are direct, they have also established a clear voice about their styles and preferences. When they do review something or weigh in with an opinion, you have the knowledge of them personally to know how their preferences color their statements.

I think GB's strongest attribute is their honesty. They let you know where they're coming from and they're transparent, so you have a good context for their opinions. And they're entertaining. Basically all I'm saying is that they do a really good thing.

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Man I didn't even consider that alternative ending. That would have been so much better, and less self-centered.

That would have been absurd and outside the scope of the story.

It wasn't about racism. It was about Booker and Elizabeth (and Comstock). It just wouldn't have fit the last 90% of the game at all. Sure, maybe it would have been a "happier ending", but it would've been completely out of left field. Fair complaint if you think Comstock came out of left field despite the foreshadowing, but at least he was relevant to the story of Booker/Elizabeth. Such a sudden shift in focus at the end like that, well, wellll.

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I haven't listened to the cast yet (I'm waiting for the annotated YouTube version so I can skip spoilers), but I noticed that the new Wuxtry is here to stay. Does that, by chance, mean new music is being recorded for the EP? Or just new songs in general? :)

 

I think Chris is actually doing it now; or he's even very close to done. 

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I totally agreed with you guys on Infinite, which is a rare thing for me, because I think I have pretty different taste from most of the Thumbs.  I did laugh out loud when Chris was talking about removing a lot of the shooting from BI and Sean says quietly "... replace them with puzzles".   Sean is bias!

 

Did you see this amazing little plot summary (from Jon Blow's twitter) (SPOILER WARNING, obvs)?

http://bphennessy.com/bioshock.html

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I haven't listened to the cast yet (I'm waiting for the annotated YouTube version so I can skip spoilers), but I noticed that the new Wuxtry is here to stay. Does that, by chance, mean new music is being recorded for the EP? Or just new songs in general? :)

It's actually all recorded--they aren't new songs, they're better recordings of these songs:

- New theme

- The Fanboy's Lament

- Space Asshole

- The Wizard

We're trying to figure out how we should actually make the vinyl. It's harder than we expected. It's a bit too long for a standard EP but it's a real waste of a full LP. We're right in the frustrating middle ground.

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Are you going to put the new theme on the Extras page with the other music?

 


...I've also been dying to have the live performances from Burnin' Down the Wolfman as standalone recordings, hint hint

 

 

 

Ooh. I like it. Though I guess this kind of highlights the flaw in my desire to get more journalism about LGBTQ gaming, that being that there's not much to write about besides "we like Commander Shepard  and "Xbox Live is still full of homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic jerks."

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Are you going to put the new theme on the Extras page with the other music?

 

...I've also been dying to have the live performances from Burnin' Down the Wolfman as standalone recordings, hint hint

I don't remember those performances being good enough for standalone music releases. But I did use that arrangement of The Wizard as the basis for the new recording.

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It's a bit too long for a standard EP but it's a real waste of a full LP. We're right in the frustrating middle ground.

 

Put them all on Side 1 and have them all playing in reverse on Side 2!

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That would have been absurd and outside the scope of the story.

It wasn't about racism. It was about Booker and Elizabeth (and Comstock). It just wouldn't have fit the last 90% of the game at all. Sure, maybe it would have been a "happier ending", but it would've been completely out of left field. Fair complaint if you think Comstock came out of left field despite the foreshadowing, but at least he was relevant to the story of Booker/Elizabeth. Such a sudden shift in focus at the end like that, well, wellll.

Their presentation of racism reminds me of the time I strangled a kitten to death with my bare hands.

Racism is put forth as the origin of the player's problems, constantly depicted everywhere through the game, and used as a excuse for why the violence in the game is justified (at least at first), but then they don't deal with it at all. After being such a major issue in the game - to the point where they have a museum and murals dedicated to it - they sweep it under the rug when they're done using it. As Chris said, you can't use a big issue like that and then not deal with it.

 

Now, many gamers may not notice or mind - in fact, if they find the subject awkward and uncomfortable, they may be quietly happy not to deal with it. But there are people in the world who find that racism highly relevant to real-world problems they face on a daily basis - and when it's brought up casually and then dismissed, it's shocking and insulting and problematic.

 

It would be like casually beginning a conversation with animal torture and then wondering why people are upset with you. =}

 

 

(Footnote: No, of course I never strangled a kitten, and I apologize for bringing it up. I needed something horrible and provocative to demonstrate using an issue to get the audience's attention and then not saying anything about it afterwards. Something that could perhaps be described as "Bio-shocking.")

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Put them all on Side 1 and have them all playing in reverse on Side 2!

 

This might be the greatest idea. Alternatively, I would be completely unopposed to filling out the rest of the space with new songs (perhaps from the Kickstarter Buddy Package?). This is the unrealistic, EntitledGamer, fanboy side of me talking; feel free to ignore.

 

Anyway, now I just need to buy a turntable so I can actually listen to it. :D Thanks for being mega-ultra talented people, Thumbs.

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Zederick: That's all fine and dandy, but you're arguing with me about something unmentioned in my post. STOP!!! I'm only addressing the idea of changing the ending to something that had no relevance to the core story presented in Bioshock Infinite. And that core story is absolutely not about racism.

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There's a lot of Chekov's racism which is left unadressed though. Not to mention the fact that the root of the entire conflict in Infinite is pretty directly at the foot of racism/nationalism (wounded knee).

 

The way in which the game's story then focuses on Booker/Elizabeth to the exclusion of anything else results in what I find in the end a rather shallow and self-centered ending.

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There's a lot of Chekov's racism which is left unadressed though. Not to mention the fact that the root of the entire conflict in Infinite is pretty directly at the foot of racism/nationalism (wounded knee).

The way in which the game's story then focuses on Booker/Elizabeth to the exclusion of anything else results in what I find in the end a rather shallow and self-centered ending.

I'm absolutely not saying you're wrong for feeling that the story is weak. I'm only saying that an ending like the one proposed would be even worse.

The shift of focus happens less than halfway through the game. The race stuff is used as a means to an end for developing the relationship/revelation of secrets between Booker and Elizabeth and

oh my god I hate spoiler tags

By all means, dislike the way they used the themes presented in the beginning of the game. I'm not bothered by it but I can totally understand the lack of enthusiasm you and others have. Just saying: the ending proposed would've been really out of place with, well, almost all of the game - especially the second half. Also, all of it is self-centered. That's kind of the point. From minute one to minute end. It's all about Booker wiping away the debt, as it were. Bleh.

Anyway I've said enough on this and it's clear literally no one in the universe agrees with me. OUT. :D

 

EDIT: I've analyzed this game's story more than I think any other video game I've ever played. Weird feeling. Makes me wish I had the time to keep up with the bookcast so I could do it with some real fiction that probably deserves it a million times more. I'm like twenty thousand books behind at this point. TOO BAD, SO SAD.

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Zederick: That's all fine and dandy, but you're arguing with me about something unmentioned in my post. STOP!!! I'm only addressing the idea of changing the ending to something that had no relevance to the core story presented in Bioshock Infinite. And that core story is absolutely not about racism.

(emphasis mine)

 

I'm absolutely not saying you're wrong for feeling that the story is weak. I'm only saying that an ending like the one proposed would be even worse.

 

The shift of focus happens less than halfway through the game. The race stuff is used as a means to an end for developing the relationship/revelation of secrets between Booker and Elizabeth

 

I really disagree about the idea that racism is irrelevant to the story of B:I. It's treated irrelevantly, but it's still the origin of the major conflict and a major piece of set dressing in the location. The idea that racism and actual historical massacres were brought into the story just to help develop the connection between the two (white) main characters is actually worse than it just being dropped partway through.

 

But I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the whole issue. Here's to enjoying future podcasts and agreeing on other subjects!

 

 

 

(Edit: highlight added to the original quote about racism's relevance to the story in response to edit complaint below in response to this post and ARGH I THOUGHT WE WERE DONE WITH THIS DANCE LET'S ALL JUST PLAY FTL AND BE HAPPY INSTEAD.)

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i will never agree with you

 

!!!

 

(also i never said it was irrelevant stop putting words in my mouth ): )

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i will never agree with you

 

!!!

 

Then we agreed on that, AND IT BLEW THE MIND OF THE UNIVERSE.

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Side B of the Vinyl could just be snooglebum remixes. Or the battletoads pause theme.

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