Ultima Online, Offline (if you want) The Return of the Real Lord British

[Bjorn]

That sounds awesome!  I loved finding out of the way places like that.  I spent lord knows how much time just exploring.  Particularly in the early days before vehicles and I was one of the few Master Rangers on our shard, which meant that I could actually get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time (hunting groups got tired of me literally running circles around asking them if they could go any faster up that hill). 

 

Being a Master Ranger was the best and worst gaming decision I ever made.  Arguably one of the least useful classes ever in an MMO or RPG, and yet so gloriously rare that it was neat to be one.  Plus I got to make baller tents that were great for impromptu dance parties. 

 

And then SOE decided that instead of fixing any of our broken skills, or actually making our useful skills on par with other classes, that they would just eliminate us from the world completely.  I really can't think of another decision where a dev gave a bigger finger to a portion of their user base than by just hitting the DEL key on an entire class (plus a few other classes with it). 

[Merus]

I know very little about Star Wars Galaxies but I got the feeling that NGE was essentially SOE panicking and making SWG more like a DIKU game. This was back before we realised that WoW had the DIKU design all locked up, and the only real way to build an MMO that could survive was to not make a DIKU game.

 

edit: blah that paragraph was just the worst, I'm sorry

[Bjorn]

A decade ago I probably could have spoken extensively about all the things going on around SWG and the NGE and how Sony handled it, but it seems like I've actually forgotten a lot that stuff.  I just remember the good times, and the crushing disappointment when the game I had spent so much time in had ceased to be.  It was like a thousand voi....sorry, I'll stop.

 

You'd think with so many case studies on how not to manage/develop an MMO that more people would get it right eventually.

[Merus]

They're incredibly expensive and incredibly hard; most people who know how to do them don't have the appetite for more than one, and few people who do have the appetite have any business making more than one, McQuaid.

 

I think that's what's so incredible about what's currently called EverQuest Next (but deserves a better name): most of the people who know how to manage/develop an MMO decided that instead they'd just focus on one little system, and SOE basically bought the rights to all these little projects. I'm expecting it to be a glorious mess on release, because they are trying so much that's new that they basically have to fuck up some of them, but a glorious mess is way better than whatever Elder Scrolls Online is. The MMO field is incestuous enough that anything they get right will end up being something that everyone else at least pays lip service to.

[Murdoc]

What's an NGE? 

 

Was UO modeled after any previous system other than Ultima? (which probably was based on something at some point)

[Dewar]

I'm looking forward to Everquest Next, even if it's a total disaster.

[Bjorn]

What's an NGE? 

 

Was UO modeled after any previous system other than Ultima? (which probably was based on something at some point)

 

They called a major overhaul to the game the New Game Enhancements (NGE).  It completely re-did all character classes, skills, and how you level up.  They deleted multiple classes completely and went with a more traditional "level" system for characters.  Pre-NGE you leveled each skill independently and it was possible to mix and match a variety of classes/skills.  There wasn't a traditional level cap, you had a fixed number of skills you could master, which allowed for a pretty neat level of character customization.  It also unlocked the Jedi class for everyone.  Pre-NGE it had taken a major investment in time to unlock the Jedi class and Jedis were very rare because of that.  It was released along with a major expansion, but was unannounced and dropped on players without warning or discussion.  Something like NGE might have been necessary to attract new players, I can't speak to that.  But how they did it and how they handled the community were a complete disaster.

 

UO must have drawn a ton of inspiration from the various MUDs that predated it, but I couldn't point to any specific influences.

[feelthedarkness]

On top of what Bjorn said I think NGE represented a cataclysmic shift in MMO mindset. The mix-match class building was really amazing, though in practice people figured out alpha builds pretty quick. 

 

In Star Wars terms, SWG was originally set up to let you be Uncle Owen. If you wanted to be a chef, you could place your restaurant anywhere in the world, decorate the interior space any way you wanted, and have vendors (machines or NPC machines), and have at it. You could sell food that provided buffs (which became a big deal for endgame players), or just like roleplaying flavor food.

 

The NGE seemed like some kind of corporate edict that was "What is this?! Players want to be the hero of the story! You can be Han or Luke!" (I think the new character select was "which hero do you want to be") and within 6 months (not kidding) of when they told the players this was happening it just dropped it in. 

[Murdoc]

Ah yeah I remember they basically stripped out anything interesting from SWG and replaced it with the standard crap I saw in Wow or whatever, I just didn't know it had a name.

 

Come to think of it they did a similar thing for EverQuest 2 which started out with some new and interesting ideas, but was revamped to be like everything else.

 

At least have to hand it to SOE, they start out wanting to do something interesting, even if they aren't successful at it. EQN is just another example of that, so hopefully, whatever it is, it takes off.

[Merus]

I think the market's changed; there definitely seems to be more of an acknowledgement that you can't make a game that's just like WoW and be successful.