Jake

Idle Thumbs 94: Readers Like You

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Great episode. A couple of topics you guys were discussing actually reminded me of things I've been writing about over the last few months on my blog.

First, your discussion on how game designers get bogged down in explaining worlds and how sometimes this is notably worse than the alternatives reminded me of this thing I wrote a couple of weeks ago about how not justifying everything in a game can actually make the experience richer and more mysterious.

Second, the letter about exploring a design space as distinct from exploring a world space reminded me very much of something I wrote quite a bit back, actually, about how a game can be conceived as the sum of three spaces: Design, Narrative, and World, and how most games emphasize exploring one or two of these, and how these can interact with each other. (Rereading this after writing it 6 months ago, I find I no longer agree with some of my assertions, but I think the premise is worthwhile)

I also liked the Danny Glover anecdote, though I have to disagree with Chris about his primary response being one of recognition being a creepy commentary on our world. I think it's actually charming that we categorize celebrities in our brains as tribe members, acquaintances to be worried about or proud of. I think it's definitely preferable to thinking of them as inhuman movie-constructs or like royalty. In fact, I think that this is part of why we like celebrities, the social aspect of seeing a familiar face, almost like a friend. I guess one could think of it as sad that we'd need such a thing, but I prefer to think of it as sweet that we'd want such a thing.

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Weird, I was just listening to a back episode this morning when I walked the dog, and Chris was comparing King's Bounty to Heroes of Might and Magic. Then in this episode while you were doing the whole turn back time joke, Chris, totally unaware of himself, made the exact same comparison. Good accidental job, guys.

I can't agree with the idea that Monkey Wrench Puzzles are bad game design. You guys love crossword puzzles, and that's totally what those are about! The question mark clues are all about making weird jumps with plays on words. I think, unlike adventure games, the NYT Crossword does have the advantage of a long history of conventions (unlike, as Sean noted, the weird Homestar Runner universe), but they're not at all afraid to throw in incredibly unintuitive clues that make sense when you think about them. I can't call that bad game design. I think it does help, also, that the weird punny clues can actually be solved completely by solving the intersecting words, so they're never a bottleneck by themselves.

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I interpreted the montage drunkard as jumping up on stage to sarcastically applaud the people who produced the video montage.

Me too at first, I'm glad there was a lot of confusion there.

I was still listening to the episode when I made my last post, and now I'm super stoked cause you read my email on the cast! Sorry I'm not a badass level designer from Ubisoft Montreal who's never seen a house before, but I was encouraged to hear about your level designer with a background in set construction. Until recently, I've basically spent my life avoiding falling into a particular niche out of some vague lofty philosophical ideal of roundedness (that, in fact, is the basis for my username: Luftmensch is a Yiddish term for a person who, foolishly, is more concerned with airy intellectualism than solid practicality). Because of this, I've spent my time as a carpenter, building a boat, working as a screenprinter, writing, doing desk work, making so-called art, and, coincidentally, building sets for plays. I'm not expecting anything to come of it, but all your kind words for carpenters has encouraged me and you'll be seeing my resume coming in soon over at Telltale.

Cheers.

P.S. I know Jake it's hopeless but it makes me feel better.

P.P.S. My email wasn't intended to test the waters and see if someone of my experience could make it. Really, I was curious if you had ever worked with an incredible architect who blew your mind with his insight or whatever. Unfortunately, you spoke so glowingly that now you're going to have the burden of rejecting a guy whom you personally addressed on your podcast. Sorry about that.

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Weird, I was just listening to a back episode this morning when I walked the dog, and Chris was comparing King's Bounty to Heroes of Might and Magic. Then in this episode while you were doing the whole turn back time joke, Chris, totally unaware of himself, made the exact same comparison. Good accidental job, guys.

I can't agree with the idea that Monkey Wrench Puzzles are bad game design. You guys love crossword puzzles, and that's totally what those are about! The question mark clues are all about making weird jumps with plays on words. I think, unlike adventure games, the NYT Crossword does have the advantage of a long history of conventions (unlike, as Sean noted, the weird Homestar Runner universe), but they're not at all afraid to throw in incredibly unintuitive clues that make sense when you think about them. I can't call that bad game design. I think it does help, also, that the weird punny clues can actually be solved completely by solving the intersecting words, so they're never a bottleneck by themselves.

I don't think there's a direct comparison there, although there may be a bit of overlap. But (at least in the New York Times Crossword, which is the only one I do) unless there's a question mark after a clue, the answer still corresponds literally, not fantastically, to the clue. But even in the question mark clues, everything you need is still there contained in the implications of the word sitting there on the page. Wacky adventure game puzzles often have wacky solutions that are entirely fantastical.

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I also had tested the URL an got an error. I was disappoint.

Are you sure?

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I cannot find The Room on Steam.

This is a bummer because the QuickLook made me want it and I thought I had my chance to enjoy it without an iPad (or new iPhone).

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I cannot find The Room on Steam.

This is a bummer because the QuickLook made me want it and I thought I had my chance to enjoy it without an iPad (or new iPhone).

Yeah, I might be the worst. I think I was thinking of an entirely different game.

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I enjoyed and played through Clash of Heroes but I have to say that all the interesting mechanics in that game were introduced and exhausted in the first campaign. It also didn't help that some of the later factions in the game are just weaker and more painful to play as. I feel like the intent of the game's design was to have a lot of combos and chains that you see in other match three games, but because it had to be balanced around being a versus turn-based game you didn't have many opportunities to set those up. So in the end the game kind of devolved into a standard strategy, and usually you win because of limitations of the enemy AI and your hero's special ability.

Also I'd disagree in saying that Clash of Heroes' aesthetic is entirely awful. Sure it's targeted for a younger age group, but it's a surprisingly dark story for that age group with a lot of character deaths. Also I found many of the characters had weird antiquated ethics that also seemed out of place for this kind of game. Perhaps these kinds of points don't amount to much in the overall childish good vs evil storytelling, but at least they indicate that even in this game the people at Capy are trying to do good things.

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I enjoyed and played through Clash of Heroes but I have to say that all the interesting mechanics in that game were introduced and exhausted in the first campaign. It also didn't help that some of the later factions in the game are just weaker and more painful to play as. I feel like the intent of the game's design was to have a lot of combos and chains that you see in other match three games, but because it had to be balanced around being a versus turn-based game you didn't have many opportunities to set those up. So in the end the game kind of devolved into a standard strategy, and usually you win because of limitations of the enemy AI and your hero's special ability.

I've only just completed the first campaign and it hasn't yet worn out its welcome for me, so that's a shame to hear.

Also I'd disagree in saying that Clash of Heroes' aesthetic is entirely awful. Sure it's targeted for a younger age group, but it's a surprisingly dark story for that age group with a lot of character deaths. Also I found many of the characters had weird antiquated ethics that also seemed out of place for this kind of game. Perhaps these kinds of points don't amount to much in the overall childish good vs evil storytelling, but at least they indicate that even in this game the people at Capy are trying to do good things.

I haven't been reading it. There wasn't anything about any of the story stuff that made me want to pay any attention to it. I'm actively put off by the style of the huge characters that fly into the screen and shout stuff at each other, and the sheer volume of dialogue (even when just mashing through it) seems completely bizarre to me. I'm sure there are some interesting things in there but it simply being dark with a lot of characters dying does't really mean much to me. There's a lot of bad film and television that's super dark with a lot of people dying and it doesn't mean I'd find it interesting. That sounds really harsh, it's just that I'm already spending hours with the actual game part of this game and given all the other things I could be reading with the additional hours it would take me to read every word in this game, I just can't bring myself to do it.

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Thank you guys for having a more understanding take of living in places with shitty internet. I wasn't the guy that wrote in about that but I do live in a place like that, and these places are more prevalent than people consider. I've been using a mobile broadband connection, which gives me about 90k down until I use up 5GB of bandwidth - then it kicks down to 15k during the busy times of the day (it piggybacks on cellphone architecture) and is 30k at best otherwise. Oh, and I'm grandfathered in on an unlimited plan that was discontinued too - if I go off it, that's it. Can't go back onto the plan. All the other data plans have you pay per MB you go over. It is nightmarish and freaky.

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In terms of characters knowing more than the player, I was thrown off by Robert Cath in The Last Express. About an hour into the game someone gets injured and he shouts out "I'm a doctor!" I honestly thought my character was lying because that revelation came out of nowhere.

Cath was also skilled at hand-to-hand combat and was fluent in several languages. I don't recall ever getting a good explanation of why my character was so talented; I don't remember ever being satisfied with his character.

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Speaking of bad internet, any of you hear about the fiasco when North Carolina decided to outright ban community internet because it "stifled competition"? And by stifling competition they meant it was a not-for-profit high-speed internet service that delivered on its promised data rates and didn't charge egregious prices. It got some national attention including from Lawrence Lessig, with a lot of data backing up that it was a terrible idea. I haven't found any articles on the aftermath, but it looks like the bill was passed. Ugh.

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For more on the fucked up US Internet situation, I recommend this Bill Moyers interview with Susan Crawford, who is really smart and just awesome: link

It'll make you mad about stuff. It touches on issues like what Luftmensch posted above.

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