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Jake

Idle Thumbs 93: Babywall the Horse Armor

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yeah, the GTA DLC's were more like sequels but with the same engine , totally acceptable, the DLC character in Mass effect 2 was basically the opposite of the prothean, he seemed very out of place on the ship and had zero effect on the story, was just it's own enclosed side mission and he was free, so not really an issue

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These DLC arguments are never going to end because people act as if the price of a particular good or service is something that is set in stone, which is a ludicrous economic belief. The value of a particular thing will be different depending on a person's circumstances. $100 goes a lot farther for someone with an annual salary of $20,000 vs. someone with an annual salary of $200,000.

In the retail world the price of a new video game is typically fixed around $60. That's really inefficient, and it would make more sense to have a floating target, which is basically what Steam does. I think DLC was sort of the natural response to this inefficiency, so maybe they still don't have a ton of room to charge variable prices for a new game, but they can experiment with different price ranges based on having various DLC available which will appeal to some people, but not others. Ultimately that sort of flexibility will allow more people developing games to flourish I think... getting away from that fixed $60 point. I think its great that an indie developer can sell a game for $20 to hit a broad base of players, and a company like Matrix Games can sell their War in the East game for $80 knowing that that makes more sense for their niche audience.

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All that being said, I certainly agree it is in poor taste when game developers get very in-your-face about DLC content available.

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The second session of Gabe Newell at LBJ School of Public Affairs is online, but the audio quality is a bit spotty and captured some of the audience talking among themselves.

There's a loud sound at 5:30, so be mindful of that.

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Dead Space 3 is really pushing it on the DLC.

Survival horror, the player gathers up supplies and has to slowly upgrade their weapons and armor over the course of the game. Or you can just buy all the raw materials you want and upgrade everything right at the beginning with some real money DL.

Yet they still offer many different difficulty levels... why not just select a lower one? Such a weird fit in that game.

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Going back to Gabe Newell being really goddamned smart, I think one insight of his that made me really appreciate his perspective and ability to deconstruct ideas was something he said on The Nerdist (and probably elsewhere before): he mentioned the type of hate mail he gets, just enormously heated angry all-caps ragefests, and he said something along the lines that "sometimes the amplitude of the signal is a function of feeling like you're not getting through." I may be giving him more credit than he deserves for that quote, but the whole idea of emotion as an amplitude is kind of mind-blowing and makes a lot of sense in a lot of contexts. It's not a rigorous science, but as a casual analogy it's incredible to me. Also the fact that Gabe will reply to hate mail with open civil discussion is a huge testament to his character.

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Going back to Gabe Newell being really goddamned smart, I think one insight of his that made me really appreciate his perspective and ability to deconstruct ideas was something he said on The Nerdist (and probably elsewhere before): he mentioned the type of hate mail he gets, just enormously heated angry all-caps ragefests, and he said something along the lines that "sometimes the amplitude of the signal is a function of feeling like you're not getting through." I may be giving him more credit than he deserves for that quote, but the whole idea of emotion as an amplitude is kind of mind-blowing and makes a lot of sense in a lot of contexts. It's not a rigorous science, but as a casual analogy it's incredible to me. Also the fact that Gabe will reply to hate mail with open civil discussion is a huge testament to his character.

hahahaha that is kind of the best!

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I think this list is worth looking through:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_petshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_pets

Yeah Herbert Hoover had two crocodiles, but Calvin Coolidge had a god damned menagerie including, but not limited to, a wallaby, an antelope, a pygmy hippo (Billy), a black bear, and TWO lion cubs (Tax Reduction and Budget Bureau).

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Dead Space 3 is really pushing it on the DLC.

Survival horror, the player gathers up supplies and has to slowly upgrade their weapons and armor over the course of the game. Or you can just buy all the raw materials you want and upgrade everything right at the beginning with some real money DL.

Yet they still offer many different difficulty levels... why not just select a lower one? Such a weird fit in that game.

that is actually the kind of DLC I don't mind, i don't care if other people want to ruin a large part of the gaming experience by unlocking everything with real money that is their choice, but if i buy a game i want the potential to have everything because that is what i paid for, if the guns were only unlockable by paying more after you had bought the game that would be annoying

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that is actually the kind of DLC I don't mind, i don't care if other people want to ruin a large part of the gaming experience by unlocking everything with real money that is their choice, but if i buy a game i want the potential to have everything because that is what i paid for, if the guns were only unlockable by paying more after you had bought the game that would be annoying

I actually had that exact kind of response to playing Borderlands 2. While I had fun playing the game, I did get really annoyed a few times with it pushing the Mechromancer DLC in my face. There's a golden chest in the main hub area of that game that can only be opened by golden keys. The codes for keys are given out by Gearbox on their Facebook page, twitter, promotions, etc, which means the keys are limited. The loot in the gold chest is always of rare quality. I once opened it up and got 2 items only the Mechromancer class can use, which of course I don't have. It wouldn't have bothered me so much, except for the fact that I wasted a limited and valuable resource on something I can only use if I pay for it.

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I think this list is worth looking through:

http://en.wikipedia....esidential_pets

Yeah Herbert Hoover had two crocodiles, but Calvin Coolidge had a god damned menagerie including, but not limited to, a wallaby, an antelope, a pygmy hippo (Billy), a black bear, and TWO lion cubs (Tax Reduction and Budget Bureau).

Other enjoyable satirical names are Garfield's Veto the Dog, and McKinley's parrot; Washington Post.

[Edit]: Woodrow Wilson owned a cat named "Puffins".

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Oh shit, I didn't even notice that. Oops! I plea the "It's not my first language" defense. :grin:

That saying also exists in Dutch ;)

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I actually had that exact kind of response to playing Borderlands 2. While I had fun playing the game, I did get really annoyed a few times with it pushing the Mechromancer DLC in my face. There's a golden chest in the main hub area of that game that can only be opened by golden keys. The codes for keys are given out by Gearbox on their Facebook page, twitter, promotions, etc, which means the keys are limited. The loot in the gold chest is always of rare quality. I once opened it up and got 2 items only the Mechromancer class can use, which of course I don't have. It wouldn't have bothered me so much, except for the fact that I wasted a limited and valuable resource on something I can only use if I pay for it.

yeah that the necromancer was only a preorder bonus/seperate DLC is the kind of rip off bullshit i hate

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Maybe I've watched too many political intrigue shows, but I'd really love to see/make a mod for the new Sim City that implemented a bunch of the awkward, local-political issues that make real city development messy. For example, if each district had an alderman who represented that area's interests, and you had to get a majority of the city council to approve a set of new changes, sometimes requiring entirely separate projects to build up good will or to alleviate concerns. With good systemitization, there could be very interesting systemic challenges and unpleasantly realistic frustrations that lead to the sort of odd city development that's made our own beloved cities.

For example, imaging your city is having a power crisis, so you need to build a new power plant. The council agrees that something has to be done, but none of the aldermen want it done in their district - one doesn't want the pollution in the area, another doesn't want the eyesore lowering their property taxes, and so on. The alderman in the oldest part of town is most desperate for it - her constituents are suffering the most from the power shortage - but the one location that would be perfect, an old warehouse, is technically a historic location so you can't build there.

As the mayor, you might include a set of other local improvements to convince an alderman that the plant will be a boon to their neighborhood specifically (in addition to the city as a whole), or you might appeal to the council as a whole to build it in the district of an unpopular alderman. Or maybe you'll just cut the budget to the fire department near the historical warehouse and wait for an "accident" to happen, then swoop in and build on the still-smoking rubble.

Sim horse-trading and sim corruption at its finest!

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I'd be into that. My family's church was desperate to expand, so they wanted to take the existing church, remove the back portion, and enlarge it massively. Although the facade and steeple would be left untouched, the church itself was protected as a historical building so there was a huge legal battle between the priest and the historical board or whatever. Some people even joked about the possibility of "accidentally" setting the church on fire so that it'd have to be rebuilt anyway.

That priest left and when a new one came in, he said "hey, we own this huge plot of land across the road, why on earth would we deconstruct a historic landmark when we can build an even huger church from scratch for a fraction of the cost?" and last I heard that's the plan.

If that game existed, I'd want it to be full of different personalities that can change over the long run. I'd also love it your office could get stupid bullshit angry letters from "concerned voters" ranting about stupid crap they hate. God I want to play this game now.

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Normally I'm opposed to adding frustrations to gameplay in the name of realistic simulation, and I'm sure it'd be "less fun*" than the in-the-box Sim City, but sometimes it makes for a whole new type of gameplay and challenge. And sometimes, as with Andrus' coughing fits in Cart Life, the frustration is part of a desired experience other than "fun*."

* a uselessly vague phrase.

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Maybe I've watched too many political intrigue shows, but I'd really love to see/make a mod for the new Sim City that implemented a bunch of the awkward, local-political issues that make real city development messy. For example, if each district had an alderman who represented that area's interests, and you had to get a majority of the city council to approve a set of new changes, sometimes requiring entirely separate projects to build up good will or to alleviate concerns. With good systemitization, there could be very interesting systemic challenges and unpleasantly realistic frustrations that lead to the sort of odd city development that's made our own beloved cities.

For example, imaging your city is having a power crisis, so you need to build a new power plant. The council agrees that something has to be done, but none of the aldermen want it done in their district - one doesn't want the pollution in the area, another doesn't want the eyesore lowering their property taxes, and so on. The alderman in the oldest part of town is most desperate for it - her constituents are suffering the most from the power shortage - but the one location that would be perfect, an old warehouse, is technically a historic location so you can't build there.

As the mayor, you might include a set of other local improvements to convince an alderman that the plant will be a boon to their neighborhood specifically (in addition to the city as a whole), or you might appeal to the council as a whole to build it in the district of an unpopular alderman. Or maybe you'll just cut the budget to the fire department near the historical warehouse and wait for an "accident" to happen, then swoop in and build on the still-smoking rubble.

Sim horse-trading and sim corruption at its finest!

Awesome. I find that after I've been playing a Sim City game for awhile, my cities end up looking way too neat and min/maxed to feel like real places. Forcing a lot more constraints would probably make it feel a lot more organic.

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So basically, SimCity plus a layer of Crusader Kings II? A council full of personalities, with political motivations based on their background, and you doing a crazy balancing act to try to appease everyone, and also the population? I might be way into that.

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Segments of the population could have degrees of "passion" or demands about random things, like sports teams, or hot dog worshipers. That way you could get kind of silly without having to represent religions or ethnicities directly.

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Tropico is quite fun. I'm still busy with the campaign, but I'm sort of scared to start missions, before you know it, it's 3 hours later.

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Segments of the population could have degrees of "passion" or demands about random things, like sports teams, or hot dog worshipers. That way you could get kind of silly without having to represent religions or ethnicities directly.

I would actually love a game that, maybe doesn't systemically specifically model behaviors intrinsic to religions or ethnicities or whatever, but totally has bigoted city councilmen or letters from voters blaming "those lazy blacks" or "the snooty Catholics" for their problems. I'd like it the most if the systems didn't literally model any of those perceived behaviors but was capable of generating racist observations. Just like real stupid small communities.

The writing would have to be pretty good though to warrant that. There's a pretty fine line to walk to have a game that simulates and represents bigots without coming across bigoted itself.

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Hey wow, I never post in these individual threads for podcasts.

I just wanted to chime in about Rayman's character design as a pretty big Rayman fan. I've often actually felt a little bit of disappointment in the series that the least interesting looking character is the main character. He's a design directly out of the early 90s European Amiga scene, and the rainbow sweet art direction in the first game reflects this completely. He's kind of a remnant of a very different aesthetic that was a big deal and well liked in video games at one point in time, much like Felix the Cat. He was designed much like an every man for a platformer without any kind of real hook or personality, as most 90s platformers tended to be (not counting the 'tude dudes Bubsy and Sonic). I guess a lot of you disagree, but I found the most appealing hook of any of the characters in Rayman 1 to be the lack of limbs (as just about every character was Rayman in a different outfit). The team did it so they wouldn't have to spend so much time animating and could tween (early tweening) their way through it quickly.

So that said, I find Rayman 1 to be a solid game in terms of platforming goodness, but I really despise the look. I don't feel like the appeal started the Rayman series until the second one. You'll notice in that game, Rayman is the only character left with the chunky face cutesy design, while everyone else has been redesigned with limbs and given a very general and specific variety. The colors stopped being completely rainbow and evoked many different modes.

I don't think pertaining it has much to do with Rayman vs. Mario game designs that affect the appeal, especially because I think the main series of games have all been completely solid experiences that rival any Mario game. Also Rayman 3 GBA is platforming fucking gold. I think it's more a franchise that is stuck with a bland character that can't be drastically changed. Rayman has become much nicer to look at as the series has evolved, but he has also had a less evolution time and Ubisoft also doesn't seem generally interested in churning out quality games anymore with consistent direction.

I'm also confused why Mario is considered a perfect character design. He's somewhat bland himself but I think has been refined over the years to a science of appeal. I mean check out these early designs, they are pretty poorly conceived and are exactly what Rayman is, full of completely round shapes of poorly conceived character design:

Mariobrothers.png

smb2box_1.jpg

Maybe some of you will be annoyed I put the iconic Mario 2 cover up, but that is a bunch of ugly floating shapes without any kind of tight construction.

I put the Mario design above Rayman, but not by an incredibly amount. I definitely feel like the side characters in Rayman are way more identifiable and appealing than most Mario characters. I would also put them both above Mickey Mouse, who has one of the most vapid and uninspired character designs I've ever seen, only propped up by the ubiquity and money of Disney. I think Mickey's interest at the core has always been hinged on the supporting characters as the mouse is nothing but a bowl of zero personality. He's a rip of Felix but a step down, like bad fan. If you compare Mickey, Rayman, or Mario to many of top the Looney Tunes characters, I think you'd also find that the longevity and definition of those characters has come from the way they have been created, with personality and roles in mind as well as a nice contrast of rounded and sharp edged forms.

It's really a testament to Looney Tunes character designs that they still have a lot of recognition despite having been through decades of bad animation, bad attitude adjustments, bad redesigns, and a general lack of support of even keeping the characters in the limelight by Warner Bros. in anything resembling their original forms in the 40s and 50s. If you just look at Bugs Bunny in his early yellow gloves form, the way he head and body shapes along with his overbite along and manner of speaking just almost instantly had a classic character going without any refinement needed. A lot of these shapes were later stripped even before he got uglied up by Chuck Jones (I know, not a popular opinion, but I feel like in the long run, Jones really fucked up Bugs and Daffy), because a lot of the animators at the studio had a very difficult time drawing these more subtle and complicated shapes in 3D space coming out of the rubber hose rounded overly generic characters of the 30s.

Anyway yeah, I love blabbing about character design and inherent appeal since it's been mostly what I've done professionally outside of animation and I just love having a bunch of trivia and theories in my head of this shit anyway. I could go on for hours.

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I'm also confused why Mario is considered a perfect character design.

I'm pretty confident nobody made any claim to that effect; only that Mario is an actual human being, and human beings tend to more generally relate to other human beings rather than crazy made-up things. I don't think anyone said Mario is any kind of theoretical ideal.

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