Sign in to follow this  
Jake

Idle Thumbs 92: The Mind-Tech Contingency

Recommended Posts

Plot thickens, Steve does a bad Ganon impersonation in this episode just to hide the fact that he is Ganon.

(solid proof from an earlier episode, repost for this special occasion)

Utterly amazing.

Surely someone has the time to make a Double Dribble montage of the thumbs crew in various poses..?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I've got to be That Guy and point out that the theory of "This is a post-Zynga SimCity" is way off-base. The only reason I bring it up is because I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but it's actually a slam on Maxis to suggest that the exchange of ideas between SimCity and Cityville or Farmville or whatever was anything other than one-way.

Just about everything in the new SimCity (except for the cool data layers as in-world infographics) is a direct descendent of SimCity 4 and the "Rush Hour" expansion. It feels to me like they took the concept art and prototypes from SC4, combined them with the amazing scripted effects system that Andrew Willmott & Ocean Quigley did towards the end of the project, and then waited ten years until they could actually make an entire real-time city simulation out of it. (And made Spore in the meantime).

That's actually a big part of what's got me excited about the game -- the effects system started out as a side project to add some visual flourishes, and over time it became more and more powerful, until they could go from idea to having it in game in a very short amount of time. It ended up being as powerful as the system I'd spent almost a year making, and it was a lot more extensible. To see that basic idea driving the entire simulation is awesome.

It means that exchange of stuff between regions can be simulated and doesn't have to be as faked. The bit in

where he starts a fire in his city and the fire trucks come in from the neighboring city is the best thing.

Plus it means the behavior of the simulation is modular, not just the buildings. That's what makes the Sims series so expandable. People all over the place are complaining (predictably) about greedy old EA forcing expansion packs on innocent victims, but I think that the prospect of being able to add entire new industries or new types of services to SimCity -- instead of just cosmetic changes like new building sets -- is amazing.

I am a bit worried that they block user mods to sell that DLC.

Super excited at the changes to the simulation. The more they can implement as individual people/agents the better. How deep can it go? Will we be able to see a cascading failure? Traffic accident causes worker to miss work, so a shipment of coal doesn't have a driver, so it doesn't make it to the coal plant on time, we get a small brownout in another business that has to shut down, etc. All traced back to a car accident from a badly designed intersection or whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely someone has the time to make a Double Dribble montage of the thumbs crew in various poses..?

I cannot image edit worth a damn, but I just made a gif of the original animation, and pulled out the six frames so someone more talented than me can edit accordingly.

Six Frames in PNG

double-dribble.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i haven't played the new sim city, but i have seen that the "cities" are very small and this worries me, i have heard a lot of good things about the mechanics and simulation, like how everything is an agent not just a number ( that made me think of how i like Knights and merchants because you can watch everything happen) but the size of the cities worries me because i felt like the massive plots in the previous versions of sim city gave you so much freedom as to how you would design your city and also the long term goal of making a mega city, the small cities look like they are tutorial cities but they are actually the full sized ones, i think they are good for getting used to the game, but there just doesn't look like there is enough room to make unique personal cities, only enough room to make efficient cities or specialised cities

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
it's actually a slam on Maxis to suggest that the exchange of ideas between SimCity and Cityville or Farmville or whatever was anything other than one-way.

It's kind of weird and gross to me to think of ideas as spontaneously originating from a single font of brilliance. It's fair to say, yes, Will Wright was there thinking about these crazy designs ideas years before Zynga existed, but obviously Will Wright didn't just magically concoct game systems out of the ether, he was influenced by his peers and studies. You don't get the ideas from having never been exposed to anything. Maybe Will Wright personally stopped accepting influences by hiding in a cave or something, but it's impossible for me to fathom a Maxis that refused to accept the natural feedback evolution that comes from their old designs being appropriated and refined. Independent of whether some vague abstraction of what exists in the new SimCity can also be abstracted from some earlier version, it's still true that the base design has inherently changed, by merit of just making a new engine, reprogramming the systems, &c., and the designs that exist now were created after Zynga in a post-Zynga world by Zynga-influenced designers.

Besides, the idea that someone can come up with an idea from pure nothing a.) wrong, straight-up, but also b.) suggests that creating creative work is free while still somehow c.) validating the idea of intellectual property more than I think that idea deserves. You didn't straight-up say that Maxis created everything from nothing, but you are saying that ideas can be one-way, which I don't believe is true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wanted to register and say thanks for another great show, but specifically for bringing up The Apartment again. I think I picked it up the last time it was mentioned, but never got around to watching it for some reason—I often find it hard to be in the right mood for watching older films, particularly black and white ones, but that was the motivation I needed and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I also seem to remember you asking what it is that stops a lot of people watching black and white films, and I think for me, it’s the soundtrack that puts me off older films more than anything else—not just B&W, but also things like Hitchcock.

The first couple of minutes are usually full of a blaring soundtrack with lots of brass etc. that, to my ears, often sounds very grating, and is usually mixed far too loud compared to people talking. I really have to force myself through the first 5–10 minutes of a film like that, and if I can make it past that, I will usually end up enjoying it.

But I should have known I would enjoy The Apartment, because the last film B&W film I watched before that was Sunset Boulevard, also based on one of your podcast recommendations from a while back, and I really enjoyed that too.

I have to say as well, that the level of enthusiasm you had for SimCity, got me quite interested in that too, despite never having much love for the series in the past. As much as I’ve tried to get into SimCity games before, they just never really clicked with me, even though I enjoy games like Civilization.

That being said, finding out that the beta was now closed, and that the game is equivalent to $100 here when I am used to paying $15-25 for games is very off-putting. From the way Chris talked about it, it sounded like I should pick up the deluxe edition, but even the regular version is very expensive at $70.

What ever happened to the Saturday streams you used to do on a fairly regular basis? SimCity seems like something that would have been well suited to that format.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now if only someone would make a game that is to blacksmithing as Receiver is to shoot-smithing (and then put that game into an MMO to replace the "double-click on a stack of iron bars; watch an episode of Little House on the Prairie; check to see if you made a sword" system).

mp3.com has songs by Chris Remo that aren't about video games

this frightens and confuses me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That being said, finding out that the beta was now closed, and that the game is equivalent to $100 here when I am used to paying $15-25 for games is very off-putting. From the way Chris talked about it, it sounded like I should pick up the deluxe edition, but even the regular version is very expensive at $70.

What ever happened to the Saturday streams you used to do on a fairly regular basis? SimCity seems like something that would have been well suited to that format.

The consensus I've been seeing is that most people who are excited about the game or Sim City fans is that you should NOT get the deluxe edition. I don't like how harsh some people are being, but $20 is a HUGE ask for what feels like a couple of extra buildings and some palette swaps. I know I wont be getting that version, but that's just my own personal opinion because I'm not as excited about Big Ben.

The beta was a closed beta last weekend, so even though tons of people were participating in it you weren't supposed to stream. The game comes out first week in March, and at that time I agree it would be a fun Saturday stream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's kind of weird and gross to me to think of ideas as spontaneously originating from a single font of brilliance. It's fair to say, yes, Will Wright was there thinking about these crazy designs ideas years before Zynga existed, but obviously Will Wright didn't just magically concoct game systems out of the ether, he was influenced by his peers and studies. You don't get the ideas from having never been exposed to anything. Maybe Will Wright personally stopped accepting influences by hiding in a cave or something, but it's impossible for me to fathom a Maxis that refused to accept the natural feedback evolution that comes from their old designs being appropriated and refined. Independent of whether some vague abstraction of what exists in the new SimCity can also be abstracted from some earlier version, it's still true that the base design has inherently changed, by merit of just making a new engine, reprogramming the systems, &c., and the designs that exist now were created after Zynga in a post-Zynga world by Zynga-influenced designers.

Besides, the idea that someone can come up with an idea from pure nothing a.) wrong, straight-up, but also b.) suggests that creating creative work is free while still somehow c.) validating the idea of intellectual property more than I think that idea deserves. You didn't straight-up say that Maxis created everything from nothing, but you are saying that ideas can be one-way, which I don't believe is true.

SpectreCollie said "Maxis" and you replaced it with "Will Wright," which is a pretty egregious mouth-putting-words-into. I don't think anything is built entirely in a bubble free of cultural or peer influence either, but I hardly think he was saying every innovation and iteration in the SimCity series sprang forth from the mind of one man. He even named specific team members on the SimCity 4/Spore team within Maxis who were responsible for certain systems. (Chuck was also on the development team at Maxis for SimCity 4, and on Idle Thumbs episode 9, not talking about SimCity!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SpectreCollie said "Maxis" and you replaced it with "Will Wright," which is a pretty egregious mouth-putting-words-into. I don't think anything is built entirely in a bubble free of cultural or peer influence either, but I hardly think he was saying every innovation and iteration in the SimCity series sprang forth from the mind of one man. He even named specific team members on the SimCity 4/Spore team within Maxis who were responsible for certain systems. (Chuck was also on the development team at Maxis for SimCity 4, and on Idle Thumbs episode 9, not talking about SimCity!)

I didn't mean to use them interchangably, sorry, I was trying to start with Will Wright just because he's a convenient example, and then sort of extrapolate out with the point out that even if Will Wright somehow shut himself out from any new external innovations since he made SimCity, Maxis as a company is made up of a lot of people and, just as a matter of social surface area, is just that many times more likely to be exposed to what's going on outside*. I guess I didn't word my thoughts very well, sorry.

*As an institutional maybe there's internal pressures not to change (structure seems to be self-serving), but on the individual creative level, how the designer who decided to toss in the flag pole decided to approach that feature is probably different than it would have been in a world without CityVille.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For anyone with an irrational dislike for black and white movies who was encouraged by this podcast to finally watch The Apartment I would suggest also being encouraged by this podcast to watch another black and white movie that was mentioned, The Sweet Smell of Success, because that movie is equally tremendous. And while you're at it you might as well watch the third black and white movie mentioned, Gun Crazy because why not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For anyone with an irrational dislike for black and white movies who was encouraged by this podcast to finally watch The Apartment I would suggest also being encouraged by this podcast to watch another black and white movie that was mentioned, The Sweet Smell of Success, because that movie is equally tremendous. And while you're at it you might as well watch the third black and white movie mentioned, Gun Crazy because why not.

Those movies are both amazing. I just saw Gun Crazy at the Castro Theatre last week, and I've seen Sweet Smell of Success in theaters a few times. Sweet Smell of Success really is one of the all time great films. And The Apartment is possibly personally my favorite film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely someone has the time to make a Double Dribble montage of the thumbs crew in various poses..?

post-26597-0-82899800-1359769807_thumb.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For anyone with an irrational dislike for black and white movies who was encouraged by this podcast to finally watch The Apartment I would suggest also being encouraged by this podcast to watch another black and white movie that was mentioned, The Sweet Smell of Success, because that movie is equally tremendous. And while you're at it you might as well watch the third black and white movie mentioned, Gun Crazy because why not.

Is it really irrational if there are specific things I can pinpoint that I find offputting about a large number of films made before a certain time? They aren’t specific to B&W but more common. (I’m not sure if that comment was directed at me or not) It doesn’t impact my enjoyment of the films, it just raises the barrier to entry for me. If someone recommended a B&W film to me, I would not object to it, I just never actively seeked them out.

I didn’t bring it up in my post, as I wasn’t sure whether it was this episode where it was mentioned, but I did also pick up Sweet Smell of Success at the same time, and am going to watch it later tonight. I’ve ordered a copy of Gun Crazy, and ended up watching a number of other B&W films the last time the topic came up on Idle Thumbs.

I’ve actually got an increasing stack of B&W titles to get through now, maybe in the range of 15–20 at this point, as I tend to stockpile films so that I always have something to watch depending on the mood I’m in—and Chris is directly responsible for my interest in them. I just find it difficult to get started watching B&W films—once I do, I haven’t been disappointed by anything thus far, and am usually in the mood to watch at least a couple more once I start.

It’s too bad we don’t have an Idle Film Club in addition to the Idle Book Club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, it wasn't directed at you, more at the general mass of people that doesn't want to watch anything older than Star Wars or anything with fewer colors than Alice in Wonderland. I'd be interested in hearing about what turns you off about films made before 19XX although maybe that's getting a little far afield. An Idle Film Club would be pretty sweet because it's easier to watch a movie than read a whole book on my Busy Modern Schedule™.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this episode, if only for continuing the evolution of Phaedrus from socially awkward criminal through put-upon sibling to failed mastermind. Chris, does the Phaedrus Group have any plans to release the soundtrack of the vlog hack?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this