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Erkki

Damn it, but computers have become really complicated

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Don't forget that with a 4k monitor you'd be hard pressed to run anything at native resolution unless your PC is a monster.

 

I've got this one and I like it pretty well. Don't know about the VESA mountable part though.

 

4K is good for normal desktop tasks too, that's mostly why I want one. Plus the futureproofing aspect of when a video card can eventually support it for games.

 

The one video games linked is pretty good, though. Pretty much all of Dell's Ultrasharp series are IPS and VESA-compatible, you could get this 1080p model for £200 - http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&sku=884968

 

If you bump your budget to sub-£300, you could get this 1440p BenQ monitor - http://www.amazon.co.uk/BenQ-GW2765HT-LED--inch-Monitor/dp/B00M913DVG/

 

Both of those seem pretty well reviewed and within the parameters that you're looking for, minus price for the second.

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Don't forget that with a 4k monitor you'd be hard pressed to run anything at native resolution unless your PC is a monster.

 

I've got this one and I like it pretty well. Don't know about the VESA mountable part though.

 

VESA is basically just a standard for wall/armature mounting monitors.

 

the new revision of your monitor seems to have it

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-UltraSharp-U2412M-inch-Monitor/dp/B005JN9310/ref=dp_ob_title_ce#productDetails

 

4K is good for normal desktop tasks too, that's mostly why I want one. Plus the futureproofing aspect of when a video card can eventually support it for games.

 

The one video games linked is pretty good, though. Pretty much all of Dell's Ultrasharp series are IPS and VESA-compatible, you could get this 1080p model for £200 - http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&sku=884968

 

If you bump your budget to sub-£300, you could get this 1440p BenQ monitor - http://www.amazon.co.uk/BenQ-GW2765HT-LED--inch-Monitor/dp/B00M913DVG/

 

Both of those seem pretty well reviewed and within the parameters that you're looking for, minus price for the second.

 

I'm going to stick as close to £200 as i can because as soon as i start moving to 300 the 4k's start coming into range & my eyes start to become saucer like.

 

How do you guys feel about the 24" vs 27" thing? My Instinctual stance is that I feel that that extra real estate is worth it, even is a very well reviewed 24" vs just pretty well reviewed 27".

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Ok so I've managed to get it down to a final 3/5(3 models + 2 revisions of models) (one 27" & two 24")

 

here they are with some of their key stats for me

 

1. Iiyama Prolite XB2783HSU £220 1920x1080, Delta-E 1.6, Temp 6513, Contrast 2679:, 98%sRGB, 

2a. Dell 2412M £200 (as recomended by VG) 1920x1200 Delta-E 1.7, Temp 6497, Contrast 1121:1, 100% sRGB

2b. Dell 2414H £190  1920x1080 Delta-E 1.5, Temp 6502, Contrast 1193:1, 100% sRGB

3a. BenQ BL2410PT £155  1920x1080 Delta-E 1.4, Temp 6550, Contrast 3200:1, 99.5%sRGB

3b. BenQ BL2411PT £230  1920x1200 Delta-E 1.4, Temp 6513, Contrast 1203:1, 100% sRGB

 

They all have nice VESA compatible stands, they are all "flicker free" (no PWM) and have a anit glare coating.The main differentiators not on that list is the i/o ports 1 & 2b both have HDMI ports something lacking from the others. They are all IPS apart from the Iiyama which is a VA (which means slightly worse viewing angles). The Ghosting response times are roughly the same for 1, 2b, & 3b however both 2a & 3a are considerably slower so probably not as good for gaming.

 

What has made this search tough is that i'm looking for a all rounder, yes i want it primarily for work but i will be gaming on it too (although less often).

 

I'm really quite unsure which to make the jump for, they are all strong contenders, i mean

how much difference does a extra 120 pixels height make?

or a couple of MS response time?

how much more "blurry" will a 27" be than a 24" with the same resolution?

Does a lack of HDMI even matter?

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Assuming the quality of Dell's Ultrasharp series has stayed consistent over the years, I really cannot say enough good things about the one I have.  I splurged on it like 7 or 8 years ago, and it still looks better than a whole bunch of other monitors I've bought in the ensuing years for other tasks. 

 

 

how much more "blurry" will a 27" be than a 24" with the same resolution?

 

I don't think this should be visible to the human eye, if it is, something is wrong with the monitor. 

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-Regarding the extra 120 pixels for x1200 displays, it's nice to have but I wouldn't consider losing it a dealbreaker. You say this is mainly for work, so ask yourself how important having the extra height is since there's a bit of a premium for that aspect ratio.

-If your video card has DP out, and most do these days, then HDMI doesn't really matter.

-The 27" monitors I've come across have always been 2560x1600. Because these are at a desk and we sit pretty close to them, the extra few inches feels pretty significant and the extra resolution is great. But I'll bet these will also be outside your budget.

-Regarding response time, I've never noticed ghosting on my 2412 but this is maybe a bit subjective?

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U2412M are very good gaming monitors as their response rate is quite good, etc.

See this very detailed review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2412m.htm

That was my basis to buy my first U2412M. I was quite happy with it and also advised these monitor for work, and a couple of months ago I bought a second U2412M for home because my previous secondary broke.

So I've got a 2014 and 2012 (I think). The panels are a bit different, you cannot apply the same colors settings and get the same output. I don't have a color measurement thingy, so I don't know the difference between both monitors.

 

My first U2412M is the same as from the review: 03ppy m3b101

Second U2412M is: 06vfr m3b102

The predefined color settings, and some other settings which you can see in the factory menu are quite different.

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Tnx for those responses gentlemen. It really sounds like the Dell is the gold standard for this particular niche.

I don't think this should be visible to the human eye, if it is, something is wrong with the monitor. 

-The 27" monitors I've come across have always been 2560x1600. Because these are at a desk and we sit pretty close to them, the extra few inches feels pretty significant and the extra resolution is great. But I'll bet these will also be outside your budget.

One of the concerns I have with the Iiyama Prolite it that it's 1920x1080 on a 27" screen.

Which is why I wondered if that loss of pixel density compared to a similar resolution on a 24" would affect it's sharpness perceptively, none of the reviews seem to feel it's a problem, but annoyingly I can't put the issue to bed one way or another because I can find anywhere local which stocks the screens to get a look at it in action.

I've also managed to find somewhere which stocks it for the same price as the Dell (£200) which is very tempting.

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If it's not higher resolution, why even bother getting the 27" display? At 1080p/24" it's not like things are too small to read assuming you are using the thing at a desk. Only if you need to see things from far away does that monitor make sense to me...at normal distances it's just going to be more likely you can make out the individual pixels which is not what you want.

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If it's not higher resolution, why even bother getting the 27" display? At 1080p/24" it's not like things are too small to read assuming you are using the thing at a desk. Only if you need to see things from far away does that monitor make sense to me...at normal distances it's just going to be more likely you can make out the individual pixels which is not what you want.

 

My thought was that it has the most adaptability, I have a sofa in my office room for when i want to take a break from my desk work, and my thought was I could watch the odd streamed video during lunch etc, maybe even fire up a gamepad and play some Spelunky from my comfy seat.

But my worry was as you say that as you point out that I might be able to pick out the pixels, i think the Iiyama works out as something like 81PPI compared to 94 PPI for something like the Dell. Which isn't monolithic but isn't what you'd want ideally either.

 

 

Edit: ahh balls, apparently there's a 2014/15 revision of the Dell U2412m i utterly missed to add to my considerations

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2415.htm

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Nice, looks like the U2415 is a proper update of the U2412M for pretty much the same price (just 10% more expensive).

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I've gone ahead and ordered a Dell U2414h

 

In the end the slightly cheaper price and less aggressive anti glare coating plus smaller bevel made the call for me over its 2412m cousin, the U2425 doesn't seem to be widely available at this point (from what i could tell the devices available in the EU were asia region devices imported and resold) .

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our company uses an online spreadsheet portal called Smartsheets.com, its a super glorified excel/google sheets that can be shared, integrated into our other web tools, and generally works really well

 

except that it has been down today, last tuesday, and some additional downtime the week of Dec 22

 

 

This is more of a whine/complaint since we keep our survey & request information on there for my art books that are due.  And clients will not care that our 3rd party organization software is down/doing maintenance

 

Additionally at times like this certainly pokes holes in the "cloud" mantra that has been toted by companies the last few years.

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We have a Microsoft cloud service that we've been having connection speed problems with in some offices. Turns out that the data center this cloud service is hosted on is located on the east coast, which has been a problem since we route some of our internet traffic through the west coast. A cloud service, that's supposed to be "near you" anywhere on the globe and be fault tolerant and disaster recovery enabled, is located in one data center on the east coast :(

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Ok, weird issue I wonder if any of you have encountered:
 

While playing games (either on Steam or on flash portals online) my mouse (which, right now is my trackpad) is sticky and doesn't always register when I click it (or stop clicking). Other inputs work fine.

 

When not playing games, mouse works 100% of the time, I have no problem surfing the web, using iTunes, etc.

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U2412M are very good gaming monitors as their response rate is quite good, etc.

See this very detailed review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2412m.htm

That was my basis to buy my first U2412M. I was quite happy with it and also advised these monitor for work, and a couple of months ago I bought a second U2412M for home because my previous secondary broke.

So I've got a 2014 and 2012 (I think). The panels are a bit different, you cannot apply the same colors settings and get the same output. I don't have a color measurement thingy, so I don't know the difference between both monitors.

 

My first U2412M is the same as from the review: 03ppy m3b101

Second U2412M is: 06vfr m3b102

The predefined color settings, and some other settings which you can see in the factory menu are quite different.

 

I recently bought a DataColor Spyder4pro and calibrated both monitors. End result:

M3B101 for 6500k color, with brightness 41, contrast 75, gamma PC, and attached ICM profile: 98% of sRGB

M3B102 for 6500k color, with brightness 38, contrast 72, gamma PC, and attached ICM profile, 100% of sRGB

 

If you want to know which one you have, keep the top 2 buttons pressed when you power on the monitor. In the menu it will show you the number.

Dell U2412M profiles.zip

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Ok, weird issue I wonder if any of you have encountered:

 

While playing games (either on Steam or on flash portals online) my mouse (which, right now is my trackpad) is sticky and doesn't always register when I click it (or stop clicking). Other inputs work fine.

 

When not playing games, mouse works 100% of the time, I have no problem surfing the web, using iTunes, etc.

 

I can think of two possibilities: 

 

1) you are pressing differently when you play a game. Maybe that difference in pressure or speed between movement and clicks is what's causing the problem.

2) games--even flash games-- tend to be more CPU intensive than other programs. The game and mouse-tracking process might be competing for resources, which is causing the mouse process to drop a few cycles. If you are using tap-to-click, losing a cycle or two could cause a ton of errors.

 

It could also just be general lag caused by an overworked CPU. If you keep an eye on your task manager, you'll notice some general lag when your average CPU usage gets to around 90%. Can you give any more specifics about your issue? Like if you are using a button to click, the types of games that are causing this issue, even a detailed anecdote could make diagnosing the problem easier.

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Well CPU lag might explain why it happens on Steam, as I'm playing Skyrim which I think is a little too much for my laptop to handle. There has been stuttering and such before, but never on mouse clicks and never to such a crazy degree (I clocked about 8 hours into the game before the problem occurred). Maybe the Window's update that recently rearranged a bunch of stuff on my computer is taxing my CPU more? Or something? 

 

Apologies, I know nothing about computers.

 

The game online is Gemcraft Labyrinth (http://www.kongregate.com/games/gameinabottle/gemcraft-labyrinth). The game is hardly taxing, though slowdown can happen in the late game with so many sprites.

 

The weird thing is that that game registers clicks differently depending what I'm doing. Menu elements, UI, I can click with no problems. But when I try to place a tower down or grab a gem or whatever, I often have to click 3 or 4 times before it registers. Clicking is a binary thing right, it's not pressure sensitive is it? Is it possible the game is requiring me to use more pressure doing certain things than others?

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One of my old computer science professors loved to comment that only virtual things are purely binary, everything else is messy and complicated. The actual signal from a click is created form two conductive membranes coming into contact and creating a small electrical pulse, which is then picked up by some subroutine of the operating system. The process gets even more complicated with touch-pads, which have to make hundreds of checks every second to see which electrodes are being stimulated by the membranes being rubbed together*, and then the OS has to calculate the cursor's movement based on those data points. When you add tap-to-click on top of that, the OS also has to track and interpret small, brief signals as a different sort of input. It doesn't take very long for the virtual end of that sort of input interpretation process to get way too complicated for me to understand. After your computer recognizes that you intended to click instead of moving your cursor a few pixels, it then has to send the signal to your browser, which then sends it off to flash which is running a ton of different functions simultaneously, and then one specific part of flash will receive the information it needs to then interprets if that click means you want to pick up a gem or not. If any of those digital processes being computed by your CPU lags behind the others for less than a millisecond, that signal gets lost. Or, if you tap too soon after moving the cursor, the OS might not recognize that short break in electrical conductance as a separate, unique signal. Like the thread title says, computers are complicated.

 

But that's just assuming you are taping to click, and not just using a separate mouse button. If you are using a button, then I dunno, try rebooting? Is this a new laptop? You mentioned that you recently updated Windows, did you have this problem before that update? Does the problem occur many times over the course of five minutes, and then goes away for an hour, or is it a constant issue where 20% of all clicks during that activity are being dropped?

 

*this is actually only one type of touch-pad, most run a small electrical current through the pad and then when your finger touches it, it tracks the changes in electrical charge, just like the capacitive screen on your phone. I decided to use conductive touch-pads as the example because it flowed better from my explanation of how mouse buttons work.

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How do you guys feel about the 24" vs 27" thing? My Instinctual stance is that I feel that that extra real estate is worth it, even is a very well reviewed 24" vs just pretty well reviewed 27".

 

I think it boils down to my desk setup between the two.  When I had bigger desk, I preferred that extra size.  Now I'm using something smaller and am closer to it, 24" is much more convenient to use.

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Now, this is a story all about how my computer has been acting weird the last few months, and I think it's the graphics card so I've ordered a replacement. The first weird thing was that the driver would sometimes reset out of nowhere, with the screen going dark for a few seconds, then everything popping back up with the little Windows notification balloon telling me the driver had reset. The second weird thing was that videos would sometime exhibit tearing, just like non-vsynced video games, only in the other direction! That's right, tearing down the middle of the screen! Weird! But that's not all. When starting a Netflix video (and only Netflix, not any other video thing) everything would freeze, and for a brief, shining moment, everything would be covered in a quickly scrolling cloud of colorful patterns and colors! Then poof, things were back to normal, as if none of this was actually happening, and maybe I'm just seeing things! But there's more! Yesterday, black rectangles started appearing on my screen. Sometimes one would just pop up for half a second and vanish, other times a bunch of them would show up and jump and dance around, and colors would be inverted, and pieces of one window would show up in another!

 

Today I decided my graphics card was dying, so I thought oh I'll just order one of those GTX 970s, and oh boy there's a thing with them and everyone's up in arms and getting refunds. JUST MY LUCK!

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It seems my HDMI switch died. I didn't know that happens to such simple piece of hardware. Maybe I should have been turning it off occasionally? I always had it on and it just lied there on the floor in a holy mess of cables. Now it only forwards audio from inputs to the coaxial digital out, but not the video to the projector. I got a simple male-male connector thingie to replace it temporarily while I get a new and slightly better switch on Monday (as Amazon promised), so until then I have no proper audio. For some reason there seems to exist only two HDMI switch models in the world that fit my need (4+ inputs, digital coax audio out, HDMI 1.4a support for all the 3D modes) and aren't terribly expensive.

 

Also, I think my computer is dying... or at least the USB ports are. I think it was the MotionInJoy DualShock controller driver that killed my ports, but I'm not sure. I use a logitech wireless keyboard/trackpad (K400) and occasionally it skips input, or buffers it for a long time, especially noticeable in full screen games for some reason. I think this started happening after I had some troubles with the PS3 controller, or maybe when I plugged in a USB stick to where I usually plugged DualShock while MotionInJoy was installed. I've now replaced the driver with the other one (forgot it's name), but USB ports keep acting up. If I boot into Linux I can clearly see occasional error messages related to that in the terminal. Since this motherboard also has faulty HDD ports (I knowingly bought it, thinking I'll get it replaced when they fix the design, but never did get around to that) so maybe that's all related and now I'm kind of too scared to plug things into it.

 

I don't really have money for a new computer right now, though, because I finally got a good offer for some furniture I've been wanting for two years and the bill is about as much as I have saved.

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I just ended up buying a receiver in lieu of a switch because 1) most switches weigh nothing and thus they support a really messy entertainment system 2) audio stuff is dubious, as you mentioned 3) I could benefit from better sound and there are basically no good, cheap soundbars. I don't regret it, although it is just a big huge piece of tech.

 

Maybe get a PCIe USB hub? That could at least get you 4 ports or something like that if you have a free PCIe x1 port. They tend not to cost more than $20 or so. I tried installing some DualShock drivers to use it wirelessly over BT and it borked my Xbox 360 Wireless Receiver somehow (I'm guessing since it tries to use the same USB protocol). Drivers are scary.

 

My Logitech K400 never gave me a consistent signal even with line of sight at about 15 feet away. 

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Any one familiar with the current crop of Logitech gaming mice?  My G9x is dying, it's developing a problem where it's automatically double clicking everytime I click.  Which is apparently a common flaw on these, the spring wears out.  It's one of the favorite mice I've ever had.  It might be repairable, but I'm not sure it's something I want to mess with.
 
It's barely still under warranty, and Logitech offered me a G600 MMO mouse as a replacement, which just looks awful.  That panel of buttons right where your thumb is will never get used by me.  I really just want something that's comfortable and has an extra 2-4 buttons on it. 

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I use the Logitech G602, which is a wireless mouse with 6 programmable thumb buttons that aren't particularly obtrusive (it also happens to be on sale on Amazon for $50 at the moment!) - http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Gaming-Mouse-Battery/dp/B00E4MQODC

 

Only thing is that it's wireless, which is a dealbreaker for some who really can somehow detect the latency of it. I used to have a 1st-gen Razer Mamba wireless that had noticeable latency and poor battery life, so I can understand the idea that wireless is a dealbreaker for some but I think the tech has advanced enough that it's barely detectable unless you're playing Call of Duty or CS. Also, this particular mouse uses AA batteries, which is a pro for me because if the battery ever goes bad with a proprietary battery you have to go back to the manufacturer. Plus it has a battery conservation mode, which means I got about 9 months of battery life out of two standard Duracells.

 

Note: Before the Mamba, I used to have a Logitech G9. So in terms of comfort, this is relatively equivalent to that series.

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Thanks!  That looks like the one that is most similar to the G9x for their current lineup.  The latency isn't something that concerns me, the G9x is actually on my office computer and rarely gets used for gaming.  I just prefer gaming mice even for my office work because of the extra buttons and button placement, as I use it for macros to automate some of my tasks.  That's the same price as the G600, I'll see if Logitech will exchange that instead of the G600.  If not, I'll take the G600, sell it and pick up a G602. 

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