Snooglebum

Why can't I enjoy System Shock 2?

Recommended Posts

Let me explain: I've heard the virtues of SS2 extolled everywhere. Idle Thumbs, my friends, and basically the entire internet has told me I need to play this game. So I've tried.

And it is impossible.

Now, I know I don't suck at games. I'm not a Video Games Wizard or anything, but I can hold my own pretty well. But for some reason, I just can't get through System Shock 2. Nothing works; I get killed when I try to use melee combat, I get killed when I try to shoot things, and I get killed when I try to use stealth, cause the enemies psychically know where I am!

Please, someone tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can enjoy this game.

shodan6.jpg

TELL ME WHYYYYYYYy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first thing that popped into my mind reading the title was "because it isn't remixed, obviously." So, well done.

But for a serious answer, I don't really know. I never finished the game because after a while I got stuck on a point where enemy respawn freaked me out too much, but I don't recall the combat to be impossible. A pain in the ass, yes, impossible, no. I am going to assume you're upgrading properly, getting your augmentations and whatnots. Is there maybe a difficulty level you can lower? If all else fails, just open the console and find some good ole cheats. Switching off enemy respawn is a good start (I should do that btw and return to the game).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A shooty character shouldn't have too much trouble earlygame. Use lean a lot and sneak around. Basically play the game like Thief with guns.

Also unlock a medbay ASAP and head back there for free heals regularly.

How far have you gotten?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm with Rodi. I loved the atmosphere, RPG elements and the entire mechanics of the game. But I got too scared at some point to continue..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're going to play System Shock 2 without nerfing the weapon degredation or the enemy respawn and generally making the game less frightening and easier to play, you need a plan. You need to minmax some stuff, you need to sit down and think about what you are going to do with your character and how those things will compliment eachother, jack of all trades builds do not fly.

When i used to do hard runs through the game, i usually focused on maintenance, hacking, standard weapons, energy weapons, and melee. (I don't usually do psi builds, but the anti-entropy skill is a very useful compliment for the guns.)

The pistol, shotgun, laser pistol, and laser rapier are very good weapons that you can find relatively early on and can keep using almost through to the end of the game, though the crystal shard makes a brief foray into exotic weapons important later in the game.

Don't ignore burst fire and overcharge, and make sure you use the right ammo against the right enemies.

The assault rifle i think is the best weapon in the game, since it uses extremely common ammo and is very powerful, but you need to max out... Standard? Ballistic? weapons to use it.

I haven't played SS2 in a few years, so forgive me if i'm getting details wrong.

Hacking and maintenance are almost the two most important things in the game, whichever way you go. Hacking gets you through doors so you can have supplies, maintenance keeps those supplies working. (Make sure you map the controls so you can easily perform a manual keystroke turn while you have the inventory open and mouselook locked, you can essentially be watching your back while you hack a door. Given that the enemies respawn and roam, it's quite valuable.)

If you go with a psi build, you don't necessarily need maintenance. (Since you can either get anti-entropy or forgo guns altogether.)

You always need hacking. (Cameras are bad news, make sure you hack those security stations.)

Research is also very, very important.

First goal when you head into a new area is to find a med bay so you can set the respawn point.

Also, stealth isn't really a thing in SS2. You can poke your head around a corner to see an enemy before it sees you, but you're not going to sneak by it.

SS2 is not a forgiving game though, i tried to play it a few times before it clicked with me. If you feel like you've ruined your build and have some better ideas about how to go at it, i don't think you can go wrong by starting over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this advice, which basically says that the accepted standard of playing this game is first nerfing the shit out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this advice, which basically says that the accepted standard of playing this game is first nerfing the shit out of it.

It doesn't mean i support it. I really disagree with that mentality, i don't think the game is by any means unplayable the way it is out of the box and with just the one patch Irrational put out. I think it can be an immensely really rewarding and challenging game. When the Many starts taunting you about how your weapons are failing and how fragile and alone you are, it hurts, and it hurts because you were kind of already feeling that way.

You know, but somewhere along the way, the accepted perception became that the game was badly balanced. I believe Levine even eventually conceded that the game was probably too difficult, and that sealed it for most people, the game was broken and needs hacks to be playable.

I've long believed that people's response was more a reaction to how uncomfortable the the game made them feel.

Edit: I also don't like the community model pack either, for that matter. They gave the cyborg midwives huge breasts!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like the Thumbs had a podcast at some point (I relatively recently listed to all of them in a row) where they talked about replaying SS2 and maybe they had some patch they recommended for it? Not sure what it did or if I'm making shit up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sno's advice is very good. One of my biggest pet peeves about this game is that combat is just a series of relentless trade-offs. You can shoot at a robot with regular ammo and take about the same amount of damage each time. Or you could use the all-too rare armor piercing ammo and destroy the robot quicker, taking less damage.

In many cases, that difference in damage can be expressed as the cost of so many health packs, which can compare to the price difference between regular bullets and armor piercing bullets. The game feels relentlessly balanced; every action costs something and that can quickly get exhausting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, repair vs maintenance.

So the degredation system works on a 10 through 1 scale, and after it degrades to 1 point, a given item can actually break.

To increase the number, you use expendable maintenance tools, and the maintenance skill makes those tools repair more and more of an item's status. Those tools are relatively rare and very important, so making them work better is highly valuable.

Maintenance is also a very costly skill in SS2, however.

The alternative is to use an item until it breaks, at which point you can use either an extremely rare repair tool to fix it, or try to use the repair skill to do the same with only a small nanite cost.

Repair is much cheaper in its cyber module cost, and will fix items to a status of about 2, i think. (For you to occasionally bump up a bit more with potentially ineffectual maintenance tools.) You'll basically be dancing around your weapons probably breaking in the middle of a fight, though. (Additionally, leveling up repair, instead of making it better, lets you repair more complex items.)

Generally, i'd recommend investing into the extra cost of maintenance, and just saving some repair tools for the rare incidents where you fail to keep things in top shape. (Though there will be rare incidents where there might be a broken door or something that you can't otherwise get through. Seriously though, i'm talking like two or three doors in the game, i think.)

But yeah, SS2 is all about the numbers, it's not really very much of a shooter. It's more about the complex interactions between systems like these, and there is very little room for mistakes because every resource is so precious.

Also, If you go psi, be very careful about the powers you pick, because realistically, you want to keep it manageable. There's no limit to how many you choose, but i can't imagine a particularly effective build with more than a half dozen to a dozen or so powers. Those costs can mount at the expense of other growth. (The biggest cost is just from actually unlocking a tier, so try to localize those selections a bit, don't try to pick one from each tier.)

The same is true of weapons, you should try and specialize. You really need to have some points in on ballistic, and can stand to have points spread around in only one or two other weapon skills. A few points in energy is a good move. The normal pistol is more effective and versatile as a main, but the laser pistol effectively has infinite ammo once you find some recharge stations.

I'll again emphasize that research is important. (When you get to the point that you are being asked to hunt down specific chemicals for research, you can refer to your notes to see what is available in each chemical store room on each deck, assuming you've already been to those store rooms and have grabbed the datapads contained within.)

When you find the nanite recycler thing, make use of it. Eat up stuff you don't need, pretty much just ammo for weapons you don't use, and then go hack vending machines and buy more of what you need.

Hacking is so important.

Mmmm... Anything else...

I once went through the files in that game and managed to find the object names for like another dozen functional gamepig games that do not exist anywhere in the game environment.

I think there was even a Tempest clone.

That's... not useful information, i've just never had an excuse to share that.

How about that little question mark on your hud? Click that and click other parts of your hud or items in your inventory. There is tons and tons of fun world-building flavor text all over the game.

Also, something about a hidden basketball in the prologue and the basketball court on the recreation deck. ;)

I would consider System Shock 2 to be my favorite game, but i didn't really even like it all that much when i first played it, it is a very oppressive and impenetrable sort of game. I kind of put it away for a year or two before going back to it, and ended up playing through it like a dozen times over the course of the next four years or so.

I think it's pretty good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the whole game system is horribly unbalanced -- I switched off re-spawning when I played it, which just made it a whole lot more fun to play.

You should install the texture pack, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A shooty character shouldn't have too much trouble earlygame. Use lean a lot and sneak around. Basically play the game like Thief with guns.

Also unlock a medbay ASAP and head back there for free heals regularly.

How far have you gotten?

This is good advice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found System Shock to be a far superior game to System Shock 2, and you can ever mod it to add in a more proper mouselook if you want. I would suggest playing System Shock first, and then if you must have more, you'll probably appreciate System Shock 2 for the complexity it adds, or realize that weapon degradation is just a pain in the ass which you end up modding out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The System Shock license is quite infamously trapped in limbo between multiple parties, so there is currently no legal avenue for obtaining the games short of tracking down original copies. (Which have become quite expensive because of this situation.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can download a portable version of System Shock if you Google it. The project has been going for many years and apparently has not been met with any legal objections.

I disagree with Tycho's recommendation, though. SS1 is very difficult to get into, even with mouse-look. Just mod the game's .ini file and reduce spawning. That way you can explore the environments without having to worry too much about degradation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may have to dig up my wholly illegal copy of SS2 and try it again. My first experience with it, right up until I quit, was hypnotically good - and frightening. You know, I don't think I even got that far, but it still felt hefty.

Btw, Sno, I do agree with you on the modding stuff. When I mod the game to better suit my needs, I see that wholly as my own quirk/failing/weakness, not as 'the game is imbalanced'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't we already had this exactly same conversation some years ago?

Edit: Yup.

As I recall, it was actually an official patch that allowed people to later the spawn rates.

Edit: And wow, I made almost the exact same post about 18 months ago as I did in this thread: I'm so predictable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish I had played those games (both SS's) when they came out. So lets say I wanted to have a more or less authentic experience and not turn off things like weapon degradation or respawning (although the latter bothered me a lot when I tried to play it). If I play on a lower difficulty settings, would I still have to minmax much? In other words, if I turn it on Easy, does it become more tolerant of mistakes? Because how the hell can I avoid mistakes on the first playthrough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now