Frenetic Pony

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From a programming point of view, I've heard the PS3 was a royal pain.

Not trueish. It was a royal pain into the future. The PS3 is ahead of its time for "regular" programming. The whole cell architecture is aimed at streamable porgramming. Procedural programming, which is dominant, isn't well suited for that. Functional programming however is, but this is really really different from procedural programming. In shader porgramming we more or less are constraint to semi functional programing.

So yes, PS3 is painful, because to get the best out of it you really need a paradigm shift. I don't think anyone has done that yet, so there is still a shit load of power in the PS3 that is not being used.

Feel free to call this bullshit, but I don't think either console connects with customers on an emotional level like Apple does.

I think the sarcasm tags are broken. The major difference between Apple and Sony/Microsoft is that Apple has not yet screwed over theirs customers in a major way.

That, and fashion, because Apple products are fashion.

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But people buy $599 phones.. so why not a $599 console?

My explanation would be that, unlike the PS3, the iPhone is useful, stylish, and inevitable on-hand at all times. Once your console begins to collect dust, it's pretty much done. You're not buying licensed games that make it profitable, you're not subscribing to online services, and you're not being exposed to its presence. There's something nice about the ceremony of playing a console in your living room, sure, but it's clearly partitioned into its own space separate from your life. The iPhone is everywhere you go.

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So yes, PS3 is painful, because to get the best out of it you really need a paradigm shift. I don't think anyone has done that yet, so there is still a shit load of power in the PS3 that is not being used.

Wasn't the bigger problem the latency between the SPU memory and RAM? So to execute any code on the SPU, you had to copy it from RAM into the (256k of) SPU memory over a slow bus, then it would run the code super-fast, but then the result had to be copied from the SPU back to RAM again?

I think the sarcasm tags are broken. The major difference between Apple and Sony/Microsoft is that Apple has not yet screwed over theirs customers in a major way.

My sarcasm detector wasn't sure. :)

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Wasn't the bigger problem the latency between the SPU memory and RAM? So to execute any code on the SPU, you had to copy it from RAM into the (256k of) SPU memory over a slow bus, then it would run the code super-fast, but then the result had to be copied from the SPU back to RAM again?

I have 0 experience with PS3 tech. But as far as I know the PS3 had, just like PCs, RAM and Graphical RAM. The Xbox360 had RAM accesible by both GPU and CPU. So in the PS3 you can to move data from CPU ram to GPU ram. That's only an excuse on the GPU site, on the CPU (PPU) side there is still a lot of potentional (if they could have convinced the devs to invest in a different paradigm to maximize PPU usage). Conceptiual, the Cell architecure is awesome, but it requires a lot of ground breaking investment, so... maybe not a good thing?

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Cell's potential may be wasted, but when their primary strength is in scientific computation (very large number of floating point operations on very small set of data) which games have very limited applications for (physics, signal processing, and...?) it's kind of difficult to ask developers to change their games.

It's like, if you take your vegan friend to a Chinese buffet - sure there's lots of food, but your friend can't eat most of them. Asking for a paradigm shift at this point is like asking your friend to stop being vegan.

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Dayum, if this is all true i'll probably skip the Xbox9000

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform. A new iteration of Xbox Live will be an integral part of Microsoft’s next console, while improved Kinect hardware will also ship alongside the unit.

Sources with first-hand experience of Microsoft’s next generation console have told us that although the next Xbox will be absolutely committed to online functionality, games will still be made available to purchase in physical form. Next Xbox games will be manufactured on 50GB-capacity Blu-ray discs, Microsoft having conceded defeat to Sony following its ill-fated backing of the HD-DVD format. It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user.

Our source has also confirmed that the next Xbox’s recently rumoured specs are entirely accurate. That means an AMD eight-core x64 1.6GHz CPU, a D3D11.x 800MHz graphics solution and 8GB of DDR3 RAM. As of now, the console’s hard drive capacity is said to be undecided, but Microsoft’s extended commitment to online delivery suggests that it will be the largest unit it has put inside a console to date.

Though the architectures of the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation both resemble that of PCs, several development sources have told us that Sony’s solution is preferable when it comes to leveraging power. Studios working with the next-gen Xbox are currently being forced to work with only approved development libraries, while Sony is encouraging coders to get closer to the metal of its box. Furthermore, the operating system overhead of Microsoft’s next console is more oppressive than Sony’s equivalent, giving the PlayStation-badged unit another advantage.

Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft is continuing to invest heavily in motion-control interfaces, and a new, more reliably responsive Kinect will also ship alongside the next Xbox. Sony’s next-generation console camera system is said to have a similar set of features, and is expected to be discussed at the company’s PlayStation event on February 20.

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Seems like madness to me. What about kids taking games to friends' houses? Multi-console households? They can't be that daft.

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Well if you can use different logins on one machine (and I see nothing to indicate otherwise unless that's what the first sentence means) then you can just go over to a friend, login on your account there and play whatever. Like Steam.

e: I wonder how they're going to fix this in Germany where there's a law that states people should be able to resell what they purchase.

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This may change as soon as the hype machine pulls in, but the more I read about this, the likelier it is I'll just go PC only and invest in upgrading my desktop. Steam seems so much more forward-thinking than anything Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo are throwing at us. (Possible caveat: Steambox.) I just got a new Xbox 360 that should see plenty of use for the years to come, and there are TONS of games I haven't played yet. And most of the important stuff ends up on Steam anyway. Really now.

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That's still not great. It'd mean that if, say, you had a living room console and a bedroom console for the kids — not an unusual situation in households of today — everyone would need to use the same login to play the games, which obliterates the point of per-user saves, achievements, friends, etc.

More sensible would be to make it so that a game has to be 'installed' before being played (even if you're not literally copying it onto your HD like you can with the 360), and once that's been done it's only possible to install it on other consoles using that same Xbox LIVE account. But then once it's installed it remains on that console for use by anyone. That's not what the rumour implies though, so hopefully it's just badly worded.

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I can't find the original article, but I remember reading the fear from an indie dev that the new Xbox will do away with XBLIG, which would be pretty sad. What would interest me is if Valve used the steam box as an opportunity to make their own version of XBLIG. A lot of the barrier to entry already exists, but one crucial thing I think is that any indie game you can sell on Steam you could just sell online. Since the steambox is going to be a closed system (I assume), it would kind of make sense to open up some kind of controlled channel for indie devs to show off their stuff, on the TV, with the great new controller.

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Given that XNA development has officially halted, XBLIG is on death watch anyway unless something is rolled out to replace it.

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Random thought - I wonder if Steambox will lead to controller-only (kb/m not permitted) games that specifically target that device/category rather than conventional PCs. Weird.

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But people buy $599 phones.. so why not a $599 console? Maybe they should sell them for $x/month together with some other service. In the end you probably pay $599+y but over a timespan of 1 or 2 years

If I were going to make a bet, it's that the 599 phone is not a permanent thing for most people. Prices are going to come down because smartphones already do most everything that people want them to. There's just been a huge premium on getting 'the best' in the last few years because you needed something high end to get basic web functionality. As more and more devices catch up to that, there's not much reason to keep chasing new tech.

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Seems like madness to me. What about kids taking games to friends' houses? Multi-console households? They can't be that daft.

It's basically Sony "We're winning and can do anything we want, $599, Giant Enemy Crab" Madness. I'd say it's a little dubious, but I'd have called it more dubious if both Microsoft and other companies such as Nintendo just last year haven't proven willing and capable of doing the exact same thing over and over again.

Bring on the PS4 and Steambox! PS4 mostly because, well, I want Uncharted 4, and the Steambox just to make MS look like idiots.

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I can't find the original article, but I remember reading the fear from an indie dev that the new Xbox will do away with XBLIG, which would be pretty sad.

That was Dan:

http://www.hookshotinc.com/with-the-swindle-360-development-on-hold-size-five-speak-out-on-microsoft-and-indies/

That interview got taken out of context and exaggerated a fair bit by the press iirc.

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You guys have heard the stories about the PS4 likely doing exactly the same thing, right? Always online + CD keys?

Isn't the "Well i guess I'll just use Steam" thing kind of a double standard? I mean, what doesn't Steam do? It doesn't let you resell games, and there is an offline mode, but it kind of doesn't work all the time and a lot of games require active internet connections anyways. (Either as a matter of functionality or of DRM.)

Sure, sure, devil you know and all that. Steam has proven itself. How about we give these next gen platforms a chance to make their case too?

I just got a new Xbox 360 that should see plenty of use for the years to come, and there are TONS of games I haven't played yet.

Ask me things! I'll point you towards some of the lesser known 360 exclusives. I mean, if you're interested in really dumb games.

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Games that require active internet connections get publicly panned for that choice and often knock down the DRM to one-time authentication. Also, Steam is already known as a storefront first and a platform second. Console makers have just barely dipped their toes in digitally distributed games, in comparison to Steam. Therefore, there's a pretty big disparity in expectations for what Valve is going to do to get you games and what Microsoft or Sony is going to do to get you games.

Finally, price is a big differentiator between PC/console. There is practically no expectation that I can perceive that Microsoft or Sony will want to cut you a deal as badly as Valve wants to through Steam. Is Nintendo pricing games at 10% off with a preorder, or 33% off MSRP 3 months after release to juice sales? Do Microsoft or Sony for XBLA/PSN games? Not really.

So... there are differences between Steam and this picture that's been painted about how these next-gen consoles will work, mostly having to do with expectations but also in how they function. Add to that the fact that it's easier to just, y'know, keep being a PC gamer rather than jumping on board a new console train and you have a situation where it's quite easy to say, "f that noise, I'll just keep buying Steam games for $2 and sit pretty."

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Sure, sure, devil you know and all that. Steam has proven itself. How about we give these next gen platforms a chance to make their case too?

I find myself in agreement with this. I'm incredibly curious after the specifics, but what JonCole said is also true. Plus, how easy will it be for really small developers to gain entry to these systems? What will the cost of entry be? I will bet that both Sony and MS are looking at Apple's walled garden with a lot of envy and are likely to go with something more similar to that. At the same time, I would also find it hard to believe they'd even be able to go with such a hands-off approach as Apple is doing, but we'll see. They need to change, but will their control freak nature and gargantuan size allow for that change to happen, basically.

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The comparison between Steam and consoles doesn't hold water on an equal basis, but it is one people including me are making. I think it's not just the devil you know: Steam has always been Steam, whereas the next Xbox (and Playstation) will come with significantly downgraded features. This is about expectations. Hey, on my previous Xbox I could buy second hand games or resell my games, and I was never online. Now I can't and have to be? It doesn't matter that Steam always did sort of the same thing; Steam was never any different and isn't asking me to spend hundreds of European money for the privilege.

Having said all of this, I am still very interested in seeing the new consoles roll out, I'll follow the events and E3 closely and allow myself every leeway to get swept away regardless of previous impressions. Chances enough will be given! But they'll have to earn it this time around, or I'm leaving the console arena for a cool generation.

Sno, I'm pretty up to date on most crappy Xbox games, but you are always welcome to PM me some must haves. My library's quite extensive already though! Check my http://backloggery.com/heerrood for the list.

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Y'know I just added up that the Wii U's made a tenth the splash of the Wii, the PS4 is a lot like a PS3 with More Graphics Technical, Zynga's dropping out of social to work on fucking casinos, and Unreal's publicly asking people to double their budgets and team sizes...

The next few years of video games is starting to look fucking NOT GOOD.

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