Idle Thumbs 87: Spray Spin-Grill

[Sombre]

I liked the cast a lot, and I've been a massive fan for a long time.

But I really wish you guys would stop making poop noises when you feel like you've ran a topic aground. It's a bit silly.

[Inappropriate Touchscreen]

Thanks! Actual laughter was produced. This is also the only footage I've seen yet of this game.

Hahaha. The dark middle chapter of the QWOP Trilogy?

[soggybagel]

That's Kiefer Sutherland in that trailer is it not?

[Professor Video Games]

"We didn't play it long enough to have a conversation about it" *Proceeds to talk about Far Cry 3 and how it doesn't measure up to 2 for the next 20 minutes*

Also, requesting that picture you guys mentioned of Jake staring at Hideo Kojima.

[gregbrown]

Also, requesting that picture you guys mentioned of Jake staring at Hideo Kojima.

https://twitter.com/vanaman/status/277216452161970176/photo/1

[Sno]

That's Kiefer Sutherland in that trailer is it not?

Sure sounds like it, right?

Also, i like how it took the internet not even an hour to realize Phantom Pain was just MGS5.

Of course, they were definitely meant to figure it out.

Kojima knows his audience, he certainly got everybody talking about it.

[Professor Video Games]

https://twitter.com/...1970176/photo/1

Awesome.

[George B]

https://twitter.com/...1970176/photo/1

is he really looking at Hideo? It seems to me like he is eye-pointing to the word 'video games' up on the wall 'dere.

[elmuerte]

No, Jake's not looking, because he's Hideo

[malphigian]

If FC3 were an adventure game, Jayson you would either approach or "use" that pirate and Jayson would say "Hell no; no fucking way. We gotta get the fuck outta here," and you would actually learn something about the character. Because the player has no way of expressing intent in games like this OTHER THAN TO MURDER PEOPLE creating the scenario where I'm a reluctant murderer is folly from the outset.

Furthermore, I meet up with Dennis and then it's "buy a gun and start killing guys," and my "character" has no problems with that. Probably because of my courage tattoo.

They are trying to kick off a story arc for Jayson as he transforms from dude-bro to mystic jungle killer, so it makes sense for what they are trying to do. This really felt like a silly criticism of a game that has plenty to critique. Far Cry 2's tutorial was pretty lousy too and the entire game was wildly narratively disconnected from its intro.

I don't want to get all dramatic about it, but the FC3 discussion was emblematic of a problem I have with the current incarnation of the show. Why spent 20 minutes trying to come up with insightful criticisms of a game none of you have played? It wasn't just first impressions either, it really sounded like you guys were dismissing the whole game. Not the first time something like that has happened with a AAA title since the show relaunched.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even like Far Cry 3 much. I could come up with a ton of problems with it, not the least of which being the exotification going on with the magic villagers, the full on White Man's Burden of the story line, and your character's douche-y tribal tattoo.

But it's frustrating to hear 3 guys talking about the game like some kids in English class who forgot to read the book and because they're smart, they can toss around some clever bullshit about the cover and the first few pages. Why not just skip it? Talk about games at least 1 or 2 of you have played, no?

[TychoCelchuuu]

I don't want to get all dramatic about it, but the FC3 discussion was emblematic of a problem I have with the current incarnation of the show. Why spent 20 minutes trying to come up with insightful criticisms of a game none of you have played? It wasn't just first impressions either, it really sounded like you guys were dismissing the whole game. Not the first time something like that has happened with a AAA title since the show relaunched.

Given that they explicitly had this discussion and that the result (at least as I remember it) was that they wanted to be very clear that they were phrasing their criticisms as criticisms of the first impression rather than as criticisms of the entire game, I think you're going to have to give fairly strong reasons for thinking that they sounded like they were dismissing the entire game, reasons that would be strong enough to overcome their explicit statements to the contrary. They certainly said bad things about their first impressions of the game, but given that those were couched in terms of "here are the things we have to say about our first impression of a game we haven't played more of and that we thus cannot speak about fully" I don't see why you would think those criticisms bleed over into some sort of general rejection of the game.

[malphigian]

Yes, they did keep backtracking and then saying this was just from first impressions, that's true. Fair enough, strike the comment about them dismissing the whole game. That wasn't my main point anyway.

I think all the Thumbs guys have great insights into games, I'd just really rather them talk about games they've played. Because when they talk about a game they haven't played (as they did with FC3), it makes for frustrating listening as it's all weirdly superficial or just plain wrong in some cases.

[TychoCelchuuu]

I don't see how they can get something like "we discuss our opinions of Far Cry 3's first impressions" wrong. A game only gets one first impression, and they talked about the one they got from Far Cry 3. If you prefer that they never discuss first impressions of a game that's a request I can understand in one sense (I know what it means) but not in another sense (why arbitrarily limit discussion like that?). I don't think discussion about first impressions is necessarily weirdly superficial - certainly the insights in this cast are much less superficial than most discussion that we get about video games in, for example, game reviews or game previews, which represent a significant subset of video game discussion. I'm not sure why you find discussions of first impressions to be frustrating to listen to - is it because they aren't followed up with discussions about the rest of the game? Because this exact same discussion could be imported into a separate podcast where they went on to talk about what they thought of Far Cry 3 after having played more of it and I don't think it would have to alter at all. "First impressions" as a category is separate from "what I think of something overall" and I don't see why it's wrong to divide the two and talk about just one at some point in time.

[castorp]

criticism

I kind of agree (regarding the FC3-talks, not the stuff about some trend - I very much enjoy the show, as always, thanks guys). Though the casts discussions were couched in 'yeah really, we shouldn't talk about it too much, we haven't played for that long'-disclaimers, and yeah, talking about first impressions is totally valid, it felt a bit off. Felt a bit like hurt sensibilities about them unwashed masses not recognizing the brilliance of FC2, or, alternatively, defensiveness against the new contender who enables said masses to finally get it - 'I knew them before they sold out'-style - were steering the discussion. As well, I mean. Additionally to the as always present insightfulnes-äh, insight and high intelligence.

[Salacious Snake]

I played only a short first section of Uncharted: Golden Abyss recently, and there's a lot I could say about it. I happen to know from talking to others and reading a postmortem on the game that the (horrendous) early bits are not representative of the whole game; it's front-loaded with very badly done minigames and tutorials, and even contains a half-baked level thrown in at the last minute because it was decided that the opening didn't have enough action.

It's not like the fact that it changes later invalidates the early experience. In the case of Uncharted, maybe the terrible early parts are the only parts worth discussing, because after that it just turns into an average action adventure of little note.

On sort of a tangent, I don't believe a reviewer should be expected to finish a game in order to render judgment.

[Justin Leego]

insightfulnes-äh

Uh, please excuse me, I enjoyed reading that word perhaps more than I should have.