History in Video Games

[Nappi]

I can see why they want to put that text there. It just doesn't mean much anything. There can be malicious intent in the story (which I think is not the case, by the way) no matter how diverse the development team seemingly is. However, I mostly react to the fact that I haven't seen such a preemptively apologetic message anywhere else. The thought of Vladimir Bartol beginning Alamut with a disclaimer "My editor was a Muslim" is simply ridiculous.

[TychoCelchuuu]

If Vladimir Bartol had written after a fatwā drove Salman Rushdie into hiding, maybe he would've stuck a disclaimer at the beginning. Anything to keep from getting attacked by a madman with an axe like Kurt Westergaard was, right? I mean they have the lives of the entire Assassin's Creed development team to worry about.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Not to mention "multicultural" doesn't mean "also includes black people."

Erm, what? That isn't what I was saying at all. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[TychoCelchuuu]

I was the one who shot JFK! I was working deep cover for the CIA.

I would never put words in your mouth. But that's a shocking thing to admit to!

[Nappi]

If Vladimir Bartol had written after a fatwā drove Salman Rushdie into hiding, maybe he would've stuck a disclaimer at the beginning. Anything to keep from getting attacked by a madman with an axe like Kurt Westergaard was, right? I mean they have the lives of the entire Assassin's Creed development team to worry about.

Do you think that a disclaimer would have saved Salman Rushdie from fatwā?

[hookem1883]

http://kotaku.com/5957411/im-surprised-by-how-black-assassins-creed-liberation-feels

Haven't played this game. Not sure what the pregame disclaimer looks like. Does Ubisoft succeed here? Can they ever make a game that makes everyone happy?

In a similar vein, does anyone think a game based on Harriet Tubman could be a success? Or do all history games need to involve blood and guts? http://www.joystiq.c...in-video-games/

[BigJKO]

"Magna Mundi" in particular was a great idea, making the player-as-ruler balance atop the tottering edifice of state, that was just miserable and boring to play in practice.

More like "Magna Mundane" amirite?!

[Orv]

More like Developed By A Nutter.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I would never put words in your mouth. But that's a shocking thing to admit to!

Just don't tell anyone.

[Irishjohn]

Honestly, the latest Assassin's Creed is the most intrigued I've been in the whole series, because I'm genuinely interested in what they plan to do with the history, exactly. I think they've gotten away with having fun with it (da Vinci and I are tight!) but not putting themselves in weird positions where anyone other than a lifetime expert in Renaissance Europe would say "well, THAT's bullshit." I mean, except for the sci-fi stuff.

[Irishjohn]

That's just UbiSoft Montreal, right? The other teams that worked on Revelations were Ubisoft Annecy, Ubisoft Massive, Ubisoft Quebec, Ubisoft Singapore, and Ubisoft Bucharest. Not to mention "multicultural" doesn't mean "also includes black people."

Yeah, to be fair, it might just be an affirmation of their office vibe. I've worked in Southeast Asia and East Asia, and particularly in places like Malaysia where you have mixes of racial, ethnic and religious backgrounds, it can be so normal it's not worth commenting on, but it's not necessarily a bad idea to overtly point out that "we all respect each other."

What I'm trying and possibly failing to say is that that little message might be more for the team than for us. Or than for lawyers. But hey.

[Irishjohn]

Hey thumbs, check out the OP's review of "Battle of the Bulge" on the iPad:

http://www.notevenpast.org/discover/pinching-and-swiping-or-how-i-won-digital-war

What do you guys think? As a fellow history nerd, I'm all about reviews of games like this that actually take the historical context into account.

[Squid Division]

Despite being over-simplified and kind of caricaturish the historical setting and context totally make The Last Express. I wish people would grab a random, unexplored historical era instead of just milling generic sci fi and fantasy over and over.

[Irishjohn]

I agree. I know it's impractical but I would love it if Rockstar just took the Red Dead Redemption engine and made a bunch of games in different historical settings. A sequel to Red Dead that looks at the Great Depression. Another game entirely that focuses on Famine-era Ireland.

The big one is Chinese history. History-themed games are a big deal in China but I'd love to see a Western take on it. Not even a Jade Empire type thing, but almost an Assassin's Creed 2 approach. Go and hang out with the Taizong Emperor, then go and save some Buddhist monks. Not a wuxia or martial arts game necessarily either.

Filipino Independence, Juntas in Latin America... how are there not more games about Stalinist Russia and the Eastern Bloc?

[Dirk Anger]

A sequel to Red Dead that looks at the Great Depression.

Have you ever played Mafia or its' sequel, the creatively named Mafia 2? While there are quite a few things wrong with those games and their narratives - although the narratives are at least substantially better than your usual Video game yarn - the cities in these two games are simply amazing. While they're pretty much just all backdrop, and not virtual playgrounds in the vein of GTA, the sense of being in this place and time is really fantastic. The first part (from 2002, so it's antiquated on a technical level, but still impressive) takes place in the early to late 30s, the second part covers a perioud form 1945 to 1951-ish.

[Irishjohn]

Have you ever played Mafia or its' sequel, the creatively named Mafia 2? While there are quite a few things wrong with those games and their narratives - although the narratives are at least substantially better than your usual Video game yarn - the cities in these two games are simply amazing. While they're pretty much just all backdrop, and not virtual playgrounds in the vein of GTA, the sense of being in this place and time is really fantastic. The first part (from 2002, so it's antiquated on a technical level, but still impressive) takes place in the early to late 30s, the second part covers a perioud form 1945 to 1951-ish.

I have the second one on my lengthy backlog list. I tried to play it once but it wasn't working for me. In more ways than one; my HD Radeon "Mobility" card is a nightmare. Or at least its drivers are. When I finally build a desktop, I feel like I'll need to just disappear for a week playing games that have never quite run right before.

[miffy495]

Mafia and Mafia 2 both had their issues, but I love both to death. Give 'em a shot, John. Though if a certain airfield mission in Mafia 1 gets to you, maybe look for cheats. I didn't use them, but I think that was the closest I've been since the GTA3 days.

[hookem1883]

Hey everyone,

 

I was getting a little frustrated trying to write historical reviews of games because I couldn't show people what I was talking about, so I decided to start a video series. It's called History Respawned, and the first attempt - looking at ACIV -  is online now:

 

It's been featured now on RPS and Gamasutra, but I was hoping to get the opinion of the Thumbs community on the video. Do you think there's enough historical content? Is the video too long? What do you make of the format and pacing? Any suggestions on possible games for the series? I'd apprecite any advice or criticism you might have.

 

Thanks in advance,

Bob

[osmosisch]

I quite like it! I'd prefer more emphasis on the historical part because frankly I'm not that interested in this particular game or how a given person plays it - that might be different for other games however. Stretches of silence while someone slices up brits/guards/whatever are not really what I'd expect or prefer.

Suggested games: Mount and Blade, any of the Paradox games, especially Crusader Kings 2

[tberton]

One problem I've always had with games set in history (both board and video) is that they have a tough time specifying who you are and what you're doing. I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but it applies most to strategy games. Something like Total War, which puts you at the head of a tribe, nation-state or empire, feels weird. I'm playing a "England," but in real, historical terms, "England" doesn't exist. No nation does. They're groups of people and institutions that interact in a variety of complex ways. Boiling that down to a simplistic, disembodied nation feels like it removes half of the interesting stuff from history.

 

That's what makes Crusader Kings II so great. It puts people and institutions front and centre, grounding you in the setting. Like Gormongous said, it really makes you feel like a person in that time may have felt.

 

Interestingly, one of the most historical games I've ever played was Gone Home. Not in that it takes place in a historical setting (although I think the research that the Fullbright team did to recreate 1995 was admirable) but in that it recreates the feeling I get when I'm actually doing historical research. I think that most people don't realize this, but historical research is an extremely weird process of finding disconnected pieces of information, some of which are hard facts and some which require a lot of assumptions and guesswork, then putting them together into something coherent. So much of history takes place inside the historians head. While the facts are more clearly laid out for Katie, I still got that same sense when I was exploring the house on Arbor Hill: I was taking all these bits of information and trying to make something out of them. I would love to play a game that really made that its focus.

[hookem1883]

I quite like it! I'd prefer more emphasis on the historical part because frankly I'm not that interested in this particular game or how a given person plays it - that might be different for other games however. Stretches of silence while someone slices up brits/guards/whatever are not really what I'd expect or prefer.

Suggested games: Mount and Blade, any of the Paradox games, especially Crusader Kings 2

 

Thanks for the comments. "More emphasis on the historical" seems to be the consensus comment on this video. An episode on CK 2 is definitely on the way.

 

One problem I've always had with games set in history (both board and video) is that they have a tough time specifying who you are and what you're doing. I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but it applies most to strategy games. Something like Total War, which puts you at the head of a tribe, nation-state or empire, feels weird. I'm playing a "England," but in real, historical terms, "England" doesn't exist. No nation does. They're groups of people and institutions that interact in a variety of complex ways. Boiling that down to a simplistic, disembodied nation feels like it removes half of the interesting stuff from history.

 

That's what makes Crusader Kings II so great. It puts people and institutions front and centre, grounding you in the setting. Like Gormongous said, it really makes you feel like a person in that time may have felt.

 

Interestingly, one of the most historical games I've ever played was Gone Home. Not in that it takes place in a historical setting (although I think the research that the Fullbright team did to recreate 1995 was admirable) but in that it recreates the feeling I get when I'm actually doing historical research. I think that most people don't realize this, but historical research is an extremely weird process of finding disconnected pieces of information, some of which are hard facts and some which require a lot of assumptions and guesswork, then putting them together into something coherent. So much of history takes place inside the historians head. While the facts are more clearly laid out for Katie, I still got that same sense when I was exploring the house on Arbor Hill: I was taking all these bits of information and trying to make something out of them. I would love to play a game that really made that its focus.

 

Couldn't agree more about Gone Home and historical research. Games like that work like a historical scavenger hunt in a way. Have you seen this post? I think it says a lot about this issue.

 

What would you say to a video on Gone Home? Might be hard to find an historical expert on 1995, but I suppose it could also be a good way to talk about personal memories and oral history.

[tberton]

Thanks for that article! That's exactly how I felt about the game.

[Gormongous]

Hey everyone,

 

I was getting a little frustrated trying to write historical reviews of games because I couldn't show people what I was talking about, so I decided to start a video series. It's called History Respawned, and the first attempt - looking at ACIV -  is online now:

 

It's been featured now on RPS and Gamasutra, but I was hoping to get the opinion of the Thumbs community on the video. Do you think there's enough historical content? Is the video too long? What do you make of the format and pacing? Any suggestions on possible games for the series? I'd apprecite any advice or criticism you might have.

 

Thanks in advance,

Bob

 

Okay, I finally had the time today to watch your video. I like the historical content a lot, especially given the tone of the show. I do agree with osmosisch that the focus should be more on the conversation itself, with the gameplay as a backdrop, so if you're committed to having the conversation while playing through parts of the game, it might be better to have a more standardized format and maybe prep the historian you're interviewing beforehand. Both those would also help with length, because there'd just be less dead air.

 

As for games, I'm going to be a broken record and say that talking with someone who specializes in historical anthropology or early Celtic/Germanic history about King of Dragon Pass would be a dream come true for me. If Herwig Wolfram spoke English or Peter Wells weren't a billion years old, I'd specifically pick out someone like them.

[sclpls]

To tberton's point, in trying to imagine what Fulbright Co. might do for their next game, assuming they are sticking to a first person no-combat game, I imagined a game where you are an archaeologist excavating some ancient ruins.