toblix

Kentucky Route Zero

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Reactions to the episode without spoilers: I think it was a really strong episode, and it really showed the growing ambitions of the project. It was a long time coming, but I think it is paying off with really interesting environment designs, new perspectives visually (like the medium close-ups early on), and a thematic layer that is really starting to solidify.

 

I was so excited when Junebug showed up, and then geeked out further when she dropped the line from Godot (and then felt bad about it).Hard Times Whiskey seems to be the driving force behind the events o f the game so far, and they're locking the region in a cycle of debt that leaves everyone stuck in place, unable to escape, like they're on the loop of the Zero.

Some of the thematic stuff does seem to be bordering on heavy handed. The Godot line, the reference to the familiar/unfamiliar (which basically sums up the game's uncanny tone), and the line about the "awful sense of emptiness" strike me as really fitting to my experience of the game, but where the last games evoked that stuff implicitly, here's its being stated explicitly, so I'm not sure how I feel about that. In any case, I look forward to Episode 4, whenever it comes.

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Holy crap, this was amazing. There's one particular moment that just had me floored with how visually ambitious it was, and how it took the game's simple mechanics and elevated it by imbuing it with beauty and heartfelt meaning. 

 

Also, Kentucky Route Zero has officially become the only video game ever made that has created a character who I relate to 100% in all ways. Never in my life would I expect this kind of thing from a video game, knowing how trite or cliched they are when it comes to narrative and characters, but this game has created a character who might as well be me or someone in my family. That in and of itself is praiseworthy, not because it struck a personal chord with me, but because its characters are so human and broad that one character HAPPENED to strike a personal chord within some random Latin American kid.

 

All in all, an absolutely amazing episode, perhaps the best and most daring one so far. PLAY IT NOW ASAP. 

 

(Hint: That character is Marquez, if you didn't figure it out.)

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Cine, I'm curious, what was the one visually ambitious moment you were particularly struck by? I was impressed by a few scenes, but there isn't one in particular that blew me away (IGN.com). 
 

I went back and played through Limits and Demonstrations. I barely remembered what it was about, beyond Lula's art. But the installation with the tape just plays out the scene in the text adventure word for word (also, it seems notable that this pivotal scene is something we get through a recording on a tape in an art installation and a re-created text adventure...everything is always mediated). It seems crazy to me that both of the interludes have been so central to where the story is going but they aren't included in the main game. They can stand on their own, but I don't know if I'd be as taken with the game if I missed them.



EDIT: Just so I don't post too many times in a row, I wanted to add that these articles are both pretty great. I shamelessly stole them from a reader on this RPS story. Anyway, they help break down some of the references the game makes and many thematic elements. They also help to review what happened in the first two acts.

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Cine, I'm curious, what was the one visually ambitious moment you were particularly struck by? 

 

Oh hey. I made dis.

 

 

Don't click if you don't want to be spoiled on the third episode's best moment (imo).

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I recall on a recent episode of the cast, Sean mentioned that he didn't like how KRZ hides the personal story it is telling, but that is perhaps what endears the game to me the most. I love the surreal nature of it, the intentionally obtuse nature. I haven't played episode 3 yet, going to this weekend when I have an hour or 2. Really looking forward to it.

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I just finished the episode, so my brain hasn't really had enough time to fully form opinions yet, but these are my thoughts as of now

 

-This episode seemed weirder that the first two, to me. Obviously the game has always been strange, but it always felt like there was some internal logic to it, however inscrutable. Somewhere between the Hall of the Mountain King,  XANDU, and the glow-y skeleton people I felt like this ep went a step too far.

-Now that I'm thinking about it more, I think it was the skeletons. I still don't entirely understand why they were skeletons. It was pretty cool to degauss them I guess.

-Am I reading it correctly that Weaver created "The Formula"?

-Ezra is a fun character, especially his helpful input for the text adventure.

-speaking of the text adventure, framing the inputs as suggestions from various people was pretty clever. I think that's what prevented that part from feeling jarring.

-I don't have much to say about Junebug and Cricket (I forget his real name), other than they were great.

-Was there any indication before this episode that Conway was an alcoholic? That didn't quite sit right with me.

-Does anyone remember what the bartender said about The Zero? It seemed like he maybe knew something about Dogwood Drive but I can't remember what he said exactly

 

I'll probably come back to this once I've put my thought together better and/or remember more things. 

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-This episode seemed weirder that the first two, to me. Obviously the game has always been strange, but it always felt like there was some internal logic to it, however inscrutable. Somewhere between the Hall of the Mountain King,  XANDU, and the glow-y skeleton people I felt like this ep went a step too far.

-Now that I'm thinking about it more, I think it was the skeletons. I still don't entirely understand why they were skeletons. It was pretty cool to degauss them I guess.

-Was there any indication before this episode that Conway was an alcoholic? That didn't quite sit right with me.

 

I can see where you're coming from with finding the weirdness of the episode off-putting, but I think, for me at least, the weirdness is starting to take a more coherent form. I'll try to explain with what will probably just be a giant rambling paragraph, but here goes nothing:

 

The way I see it, the game has been about creating the unsettling feeling of parts of America that are decaying in the post-industrial era. I've seen these places in abandoned farms in Wisconsin, empty city blocks in Missouri, and the back roads of rural Ohio at night. Walking through these places, I always get a feeling of creeping dread. For the most part, this seems to come out of wondering how these places ended up like this (the answer often has to do with the transition to late capitalism, the movement of manufacturing jobs overseas, and the growth of large-scale agribusiness). The first two acts of Kentucky Route Zero have been about creating that feeling, and making players ask that question. Act 3 is where we start getting answers.

We learn about the circumstances of Marquez's childhood that kept her in this place, we hear about the Hard Times Liquor company that is working to keep the locals indebted to them, we see Conway's traumatic past that is informing his present actions. All these things add up to people who are stuck in a place that is crumbling around them, and they aren't really sure why.

The two extra-weird things you mentioned, the computer and the skeletons, both read to me as extensions of this theme. In the case of the computer, it is an ambitious project that is falling apart and contributing to Donald's inability to leave the cave. The skeletons are laborers programmed to work either in the mines or in the distillery (robots are often convenient metaphors for systems that view laborers as non-human abstractions of the work they can perform).

Ok, enough of my pretentious interpretations. The tl;dr of it all is that the game is about creating a sense of a place and discussing the systems that keep people stuck in it (like the confusing loop of the zero).

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I finished Act 3 last night. Great stuff. I think the only knock against it I have is that driving around the map gets a bit tedious after a while. I'll put my thoughts in spoiler tags I guess.

 

First, obviously, the scene with the band in the Lower Depths was incredible.

 

Second, one of my favorite moments was near the end when Conway was asked to take a drink. If you don't click "Drink" quickly enough the cursor moves there on its own. I thought that was a really elegant way to portray Conway's loss of control, but then for whatever reason, showing longtime sober characters fall off the wagon gets me every time.

 

Regarding the skeletons, I figured the game was trying visualize the effect debt had on them. The first thing mentioned after Conway had his leg fixed up was the bill, and now his leg is the same as the Hard Times employees. By appearing as skeletons they're already only marginally human in appearance, and then on top of that they were barely visible. To even interact with them you had to degauss them...kind of shake them back into existence.

 

More generally the game seems to be focusing on the struggles/difficulty of trying to escape problems, either financial or personal, and is doing this amazing job creating an atmosphere that reflects that.

 

One question. After you get through the main part of Xanadu, you can play that simulator of Donald where you hire and assign assistants. Does that go anywhere or do you need to just quit eventually?

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Yeah, the band was the best part of the game, I stood their for a minute until I realized I had to choose the lyrics and they I was amazed they actually sang it with actual voices!

 

The Xanadu thing seemed like a Zork reference since it practically starts like Zork I...

 

I played the game for a while and I'm pretty sure you're supposed to quit, Conners get telling me to, so I did.

 

I'm confused now, are still delivering the package or do we work for the skeleton thingies now? Or do work for them AFTER we finish the package? Poor guy, he was going to retire and now he's forced to work off his debt?

 

I don't really remember why the kid is sticking around with us, but I hope the band sticks around for at least another act.

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I played through until it basically recapped the events related to me in the cave full of burning computers, and… I can't remember what happened next. It ran out of unique events, it didn't take long to get everything in it to 100%, then it ended and I left the hall via the gates.

 

I went through part three a few nights ago. Playing KR0 makes me feel deeply okay in a way other games don't.

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Oh, in my playthrough I thought one of the points of the gamedev sim in Xanadu was that making a perfect simulation of reality was a fool's errand, a trap that ensnared the developers in the cave long ago like Chris Crawford's long-suffering Storytron project with hints of AAA's absurd manhours spent on graphical fidelity. Realism and meaning at odds with each other, minutiae overshadowing a work's themes, bugs mounting up with every new feature. I'm not sure how to interpret it if you can max out everything!

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I plan to start this game tonight now that I've beaten DS2.  I need to get into this game because I am deeply tempted to open a spoiler tag but I know I should not do that.

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I love the art direction for this game, but haven't yet ordered it. I would like to get it when it's all done.

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So I just replayed KRZ Act 1, and Limits & Demonstrations. I somehow missed a TON of stuff my first pass, but the thing that is really blowing my mind is that Lulu Chamberlain, the artist from L&D was a real person (with basically no internet footprint), and the art in the game was also real? There was a gallery showing in Philly last year, that showed game, and the pieces from the game. KRZ is really something magical.

 

http://s21.postimg.org/zfscl1mx3/Screen_Shot_2013_10_01_at_11_04_11_PM.png

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I'm actually pretty sure Lula Chamberlain was not a real person. The gallery showing was by the creators of KR0 and presented as though it were by this fictional character. Look at this, it claims "The Entertainment" is a combination of two plays by Lem Doolittle, but as far as I can tell, Lem is not a real person either. If someone can find evidence that Lula or Lem existing prior to 2013, then maybe they were real, but it looks to me like Cardboard Computer are presenting fiction as reality here.

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Yeah Lulu is definitely fictional. The real world exhibition was done by the game's developers (see this article for example). I wish I could have checked it out though.

 

In this post from the previous page, prettyunsmart linked to a couple articles that go into the insanely numerous inspirational underpinnings of a lot of the games elements (including Lulu's name). Be prepared to feel embarrassingly uncultured after reading though.

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I finally got around to playing Episode 1 of this (slowly breaking away from my Dark Souls 2 obsession).  I was kind of simultaneously enchanted and bored.  The game is obviously super smart and enchanting, but as I realized that my dominant interaction was just going to be clicking and clicking and clicking to unveil the next cue card to read, it started to feel a bit to drawn out.  It might have just been the mood I was in though. 

 

Even if it felt like it overstayed a bit, I can't wait to see what Eps 2 and 3 bring.  I'm glad I didn't wait for all 5 parts to come out though, this certainly isn't a game I want to play one right after the next.  Think I'll let the first episode ruminate for a few more days before jumping into the next one.

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I finally got around to playing Episode 1 of this (slowly breaking away from my Dark Souls 2 obsession).  I was kind of simultaneously enchanted and bored.  The game is obviously super smart and enchanting, but as I realized that my dominant interaction was just going to be clicking and clicking and clicking to unveil the next cue card to read, it started to feel a bit to drawn out.  It might have just been the mood I was in though. 

 

Even if it felt like it overstayed a bit, I can't wait to see what Eps 2 and 3 bring.  I'm glad I didn't wait for all 5 parts to come out though, this certainly isn't a game I want to play one right after the next.  Think I'll let the first episode ruminate for a few more days before jumping into the next one.

 

The player interactions are a bit lacking at times, though I felt like the game got better over time about letting you explore. Particularly when the map opens up, you can find different locations that aren't along the critical path, which can make it feel a bit more game-like.

 

On the topic of cue cards, do you think voice acting would have helped you feel less like this? In theory, it isn't too different from something like Gone Home or Dear Esther, but just in text instead of voice. I guess both of those games are (to varying degrees) more direct in their storytelling at least.

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I thought each part was more beautiful than the last, but there were slow moments in every part, during which I had to really actively commit to what it was doing. It's mostly about exploration, and it's a beautiful thing to explore.

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I found moving around the map a bit tedious at times but otherwise never had issues with the pacing. I do agree that the episodes work best spaced out. They are definitely not designed to be the kind of experience you binge on and benefit having time to think in between play sessions. Though the gap between episodes two and three was looooong.

 

On the topic of the cards, I like them...a lot of the scenes are lit or composed a lot like a stage play, and the I feel like the text format really adds to it.

 

Bjorn do you know about the two extra pieces of content the devs have released? There's Limits and Demonstrations, that I guess is best to play before episode 2, and The Entertainment which is a sort of interlude between eps 2 and 3. Both are free on their website and very much worth checking out.

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The player interactions are a bit lacking at times, though I felt like the game got better over time about letting you explore. Particularly when the map opens up, you can find different locations that aren't along the critical path, which can make it feel a bit more game-like.

 

On the topic of cue cards, do you think voice acting would have helped you feel less like this? In theory, it isn't too different from something like Gone Home or Dear Esther, but just in text instead of voice. I guess both of those games are (to varying degrees) more direct in their storytelling at least.

 

I normally argue that we need more games with less, or no, voice acting, as I think the act of reading in a game brings something positive and I think it opens the door to more interesting narrative options when you don't have to voice a majority of the dialogue.  With something like KR0, I can see a VO being either fantastic, or detracting from the experience.  I think it would be a challenge to find the right actors to maintain the mood. 

 

I guess I have two frustrations that detracted from an overall very positive experience. 

 

With getting bored, it's probably a combination of my fault, and maybe the game's fault.  After getting to the map, and exploring for awhile, I started moving through the story locations.  Partway through the main story, I began to think that perhaps other locations were opening up, and that I would find new things if I looked around again, which would be fun and neat!  So I, completely fruitlessly re-explored the whole map only to find nothing.  It was clearly something I didn't need to do, but the game gave me a really strong hint (a character leaving and saying he hoped we'd bump into one another again) that it might be worth it.  I finally looked that up on a wiki and discovered he doesn't reappear until Act 2.  If I hadn't have blown that 15ish minutes of just doing nothing but clicking around on roads, my overall experience might have been different. 

 

The second frustration was that I early on returned to the gas station after having only explored about a third of the map, and a scene card popped up of something like "Act 1, Scene 2" and I thought, "Oh shit, no, I want to explore more!."  So I left, finished exploring the map, went back to the gas station and a new card popped up of "Act 1, Scene 3" and I had some momentary anxiety that I had missed an entire scene of content.  After interacting there, and leaving, I screwed around a bit and realized that the game pops up that card every single time you visit a story location, and just keeps upping the scene number.  But the anxiety that I had just screwed myself out of seeing something wasn't pleasant.

 

All said though, I can see both of the above criticisms fading over time and being the kinds of things I barely remember about the game, which is how most minor criticisms work for me in good games.  The overall positive experience far outweighs minor quibbles.

 

 

Bjorn do you know about the two extra pieces of content the devs have released? There's Limits and Demonstrations, that I guess is best to play before episode 2, and The Entertainment which is a sort of interlude between eps 2 and 3. Both are free on their website and very much worth checking out.

 

I knew those existed, but wasn't aware they were on the website.  Thanks!  After finishing Act 1, I looked around inside the game menu to find the interludes, and quickly gave up.  Hadn't bothered to look up if they were separate downloads or an online thing yet.

 

Edited to add:  I don't want to be all specific about just negatives!  Two specific things I loved were:

 

The weird little musical interlude when you leave the girl's house the first time. That was amazing and unexpected. And then exploring the mines, if you turn off your light, you can see the ghosts of the miners going about their jobs. It was so perfectly, eerily appropriate.

 

And those were just two nice touches.  The deeper and more complex themes were all fantastic and I know have been mentioned earlier. 

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