riadsala

Ideas for 3MA shows

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Hello,

not that I want to tell Rob how to do his job, but I'm sure quite a few of us have some (good?) suggestions for things we'd like to hear discussed on the show. I know Rob and Troy have mentioned people suggestion show topics via Twitter etc.

As this is now the official forum, it seems like it would be a good place for such conversations :)

Some ideas that I've had:

expert gamers

I've noticed that several of the regular panel confess/claim to not actually being any good at the games they're talking about. While there is certainly an element of modesty here, and I guess it stems from not having enough time to actually get into the nitty gritty of the big strategy games they enjoy talking about. (For example, nobody had had a chance to try the xcom multiplayer. How many of the panel had completed it before discussing it? What about on a hard difficulty with permadeath on?) Please note: this isn't a criticism The idea that you have to have completed a game before being allowed to review it is silly. But it would be quite interesting to hear how people who are really into certain games approach them. What attracts them to certain games over others? Pro Starcraft 2 players, the folk on the Civ forums who write the guides on how to beat the AI on the hardest difficulty, and the people who play multi-player Sins of a Solar Empire competitively.

We've already had at least one episode on how to get new players into strategy games. So how about an episode focusing on the other end of the spectrum.

Disclaimer: I never did beat CivIV on Monarch difficulty, and the thought of playing ranked rts matches scares me :P

strategy genres

3MA love good of definitional discussions. I've recently started playing Master of Orion 1 - it was on sale at gog.com and I figured that as I've never played it, it would be interesting to go back and have a look. One thing I've noticed is that it's essentially the same game as GalCiv2 as Sword of the Stars. [similarly, most RTSs are essentially the same game] Sure, there are some differences, but I wonder if an analogy could be made with chess. Chess is a very old game, and the rules evolved over the centuries. Even now, there are many variants of chess. http://chessvariants.org/

With that in mind, how many different strategy games can we think of? And, what would we select as the definitive/vanilla ruleset? Off the top of my head we have:

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Is This A Genre?

So I was pondering that X-Com is a lot like Masters of Orion I and 2, in that: (1) there is unit design; (2) those units fight in tactical battles; (3) in furtherance of your goals on the over-arching strategic layer. This is kind of an interesting discovery, especially in light of the fact that 3MA has previously poo-poo'd designs that have tactical battles and unit design. I

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re: expert gamers - although it doesn't fit quite within the parameters you described, a lot of those topics were discussed on the e-sports episode. As someone that is really not interested in the whole e-sports phenomenon, and kind of turned off by it, I found it really interesting to hear how other people experience and relate to games on this level of competition/mastery.

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+1 to the experts idea.

Also, again related to the esports episode, I'd love to hear episodes dedicated to specific games played competitively.

For example, let's say they do a show about League of Legends. Rob, Troy, Bruce, Julian, whomever, could immerse themselves in that game for the week leading up to the cast. With a game that big, there should be no shortage of qualified people to guest on the show. Perhaps even give them tutorials to get them playing at a higher level.

That can very easily lead into a discussion of mechanics, pay models, community, etc.

Or could even lead to streamed or recorded games complete with commentary.

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Compare and contrast Warlock with Fallen Enchantress. Both are wildly different takes on the fantasy strategy genre. Warlock is simple and to-the-point, while Fallen Enchantress takes the "kitchen sink" approach.

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Compare and contrast Warlock with Fallen Enchantress. Both are wildly different takes on the fantasy strategy genre. Warlock is simple and to-the-point, while Fallen Enchantress takes the "kitchen sink" approach.

It would be nice to extend that idea and have an ed of year 4X wrap-up show. The genre seems to be a little more active than a few years ago, and while not everything has been a huge success we do have "the next generation" of 4Xs. CiV (with expansion), Ele:FE, Endless Space, SotS2, Distant Worlds (expansions are still coming out) etc.

Another topic I'd like to hear discussed is seas and oceans. Not many games manage to make this interesting or even relevant. But sea trade (and hence, strong navies) have been hugely important throughout history. I know Troy or Rob have commented that the problem with navel battles is that there's no terrain. But is that really true, especially on a strategic level? I don't know much about the topic, but I got the impression that there are definite trade lanes where most the shipping takes place, due to currents and wind directions.

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The trade topic might be really interesting once EU4 comes out. From what I've read, it has a really interesting new take on how trade is handled.

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Another suggestion: Chess and Go. Or maybe broaden the topic to "traditional games."

I've been thinking about this a bit lately, as i've been trying to get better at go. These games have been played, and studied for centuries, and people are still finding lots of interest in them... I'm sure you could find and invite some interesting people from the chess/go communities who'd be happy to spend a while talking about the attraction of the game, some basic concepts, and maybe what, if anything, computer strat games could or should learn from these games

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Keeping it brief since I'm on the phone, but I'd love for the team to cover Eador, with the recent release on GOG and Masters of the Arcane on the way. Seems right up TMA's alley.

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So Civ 4 is like eight years old at this point. How old does a game have to be to be eligible for a classic game analysis? It's a game that of course is constantly mentioned on 3MA, but has yet to receive its own episode.

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An expert gamers episode would be nice, but I am more interested in a expert but not pro gamer approach to the topic. The difference between the game enjoyment of a normal gamer and a very good gamer can lead to some very interesting discussions. 

 

What I mean by "expert but not pro" is someone like me: I can beat immortal/deity difficulty at civ, and I can crush most of my friends at an random RTS, but I don't come even close to a pro StarCraft or League of Legends player. 

 

Also, I think Civ 4 will be eligible to a classic game analysis when the debate between which is the better game: "Civ 4 or Civ 5" is replaced by "Civ 5 or Civ 6" :P

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 I'm Playing Brutal Legend atm,  it is a flawed gem but totally worth talking about IMO. I'd love to hear the guys discussing  it because often the most interesting insights we hear from the crew are on why games were so nearly (but not quite) great.

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You might want to peruse the archives because I believe the game was discussed in several episodes back when it was released. You may not hear the sort of conversation you're looking for though, I mostly recall Tom singing the game's gospel.

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So Civ 4 is like eight years old at this point. How old does a game have to be to be eligible for a classic game analysis? It's a game that of course is constantly mentioned on 3MA, but has yet to receive its own episode.

 

lol

civ 4 already derails most of the 4X episodes

 

i don't think they're avoiding a whole episode about it because it isn't "classic"

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3MA topic idea: branching plot narratives in strategy games.  How difficult is it to write divergent paths for a strategy game?

That definitely seems like one of the great unexplored potentials of strategy gaming. One can imagine a game where you make decisions like in Mass Effect or the Walking Dead, but these decisions result in strategic consequences as well as narrative ones. It's a good question why there haven't been any major titles to do this...

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I'd like to see a discussion, detailing the panels current stepping stone map of wargames - basically select a PC/Mobile/Board wargame, to cater for strategy gamers new to wargaming, wargamers wishing to take on something a little more ambitious, to the extremes of devoted complex simulations at the top end of tricky wargame ladder.

 

In essence it would be a personal roadmap (from each panel member) discussing their node to node path to wargaming aptitude, appreciation and greatness! :)

 

Oh and at some point, 3MA really should get Mark H. Walker back on, and give him a bit more time to explain the changes in his (soon to be released, allegedly) Lock n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad. For information this game was featured on Episode 27, August 25, 2009.

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 I'm Playing Brutal Legend atm,  it is a flawed gem but totally worth talking about IMO. I'd love to hear the guys discussing  it because often the most interesting insights we hear from the crew are on why games were so nearly (but not quite) great.

 

Episode 35 - Brutal Legend.

http://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/episode-35

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That definitely seems like one of the great unexplored potentials of strategy gaming. One can imagine a game where you make decisions like in Mass Effect or the Walking Dead, but these decisions result in strategic consequences as well as narrative ones. It's a good question why there haven't been any major titles to do this...

I imagine it would work really well for XCOM? Rather than a whole new campaign, just add branches to the current campaign. A nice of choice, and random branching would be neat.

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I'd love an episode on Bowen Simmons' (board-)games (Bonaparte At Marengo, Napoleon's Triumph, Guns of Gettysburg) à la the A few acres of snow episode. I recently bought NT, so yes, I am essentially requesting that 3MA validate my taste in games. Nevertheless, the games are very different from most wargames (as far as I know) and at least somewhat topical given the impending release of GoG.

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I think they've done this before but a show, or even a periodic series of shows, on introducing games/concepts to people would be nice. I like strategy games but my exposure to them is very limited. 

 

Something like remedial strategy games? 

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They did to something called like the strategy game curriculum or canon or something like that which was supposed to be about how to get into strategy games, but I don't know if I personally found it particularly helpful (Julian's suggestion was to play chess). I think it's a difficult episode concept because I don't get the sense that there is a lot of agreement among the 3MA crew about it.

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As far as introducing game concepts, they did do an episode about supply, but that might be a bit advanced.

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They did to something called like the strategy game curriculum or canon or something like that which was supposed to be about how to get into strategy games, but I don't know if I personally found it particularly helpful (Julian's suggestion was to play chess). I think it's a difficult episode concept because I don't get the sense that there is a lot of agreement among the 3MA crew about it.

 

yeah, I can see the difficulty there. But maybe where they take a game that they all at least agree is good and then break down why it is good and give some basic strategy on how best to play it? And how other similar games failed where this one succeeded.

 

It'd be interesting to listen to that kind of talk and see on what the various hosts focus and why.

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