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Jake

The Idle Book Club 3: Telegraph Avenue

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The "how did he dare to write black characters" line strikes me as a little overwrought, but I'll listen to this until Sandy knocks out my power again.

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The "how did he dare to write black characters" line strikes me as a little overwrought, but I'll listen to this until Sandy knocks out my power again.

It's seriously a thing he brings up with the first question as a strawman to be batted down, and is dealt with in 60-90 seconds. Silverblatt isn't interested in tough interview questions at all.

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I thought we were in trouble there when Chabon started to say "I wanted to make black people visible," but thank goodness he added the qualifier "to myself."

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Yeah, going in the direction of making a literal reinterpretation of Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man that drew heavily from blaxploitation cinema was a bold choice by Chabon, and I've got to say I was surprised when Titus got introduced and it turned out to be also be a Ghost Dad remake.

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turned out to be also be a Ghost Dad remake.

Well that obliterated any chance of me taking this book seriously ever again.

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I came into this thread a bit trepidatious about stating my dislike of the book, and it turns out to be the majority opinion. I did not identify with the characters at all. As someone who's usually the whitest white guy in the room I just do not understand how people can be so obsessed with racial identity. Archy was just a caricature of a funk-loving black guy. Why does Gwen put up with Archy, especially when 8 months pregnant? I kept reading, somewhat intrigued by both the blackmail storyline & the legal trouble of the midwives, and they both just ... end. In the case of Flowers, Luther, and Gibson Goode, not convincingly. I'm also a little put off by Archy "growing" by becoming a real estate agent, in 2004, in a minority community in the Bay Area. (Lots of fraud and huxterism with mortgages at the time.)

He grew up in Columbia, Maryland, a utopian planned community that planned to eliminate segregation on all levels by offering housing for all classes to members of all races, anchored by interfaith centers. His family moved him there when he was young, and he has really fond memories of his time there.

Huh. I live 10-15 minutes from Columbia, and it's a sterile suburban nightmare. (And I'm pretty sure it's overwhelmingly white, and has been since at least the 80s).

I'm glad that in this week's podcast, Jake briefly mentions his own dissatisfaction with the book; I'd been feeling guilty about panning a book that's a bookcast selection, but not anymore. Really excited to hear everyone's thoughts on this one.

I felt the same way, and was similarly relieved by both Jake's admission & the tenor of this thread.

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Did miss an update on when the cast is coming out?

It got pushed back one week, I think because Jake and Sean are in crunch for the last Walking Dead episode of the season.

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It got pushed back one week, I think because Jake and Sean are in crunch for the last Walking Dead episode of the season.

So they'll be punch-drunk? This could be fun.

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Chabon's Bookworm episode is a really good interview with the author, for anyone hankering for an early dose before the bookcast.

Hooooly shit I could not get through more than 10 seconds of the interviewer's voice. That was like fingernails down my spine, ugh.

As far as the book goes, I seem to be closest to Chris' position: there are quite a few unfortunate choices (the Obama scene, the overall flabbiness of the book, the at times unrealistically inserted references) but to me the characters especially made it worth reading. I also found the dialogues very pleasant to read, to the point that all of the characters developed a voice for me. Especially Gwen (mentally cast as Pam Grier with dreads) was a plasure to read.

I've seen some reference in the thread to people being annoyed that the characters do things they know they shouldn't. To me that is kind of confusing, because, well, who hasn't? It's how they deal with it afterwards that makes it interesting, such as for example Gwen's path through winning in the hospital to apologising to the father in the final scene. Similarly I rather enjoyed Titus' inscrutability because, well, some people just are like that.

That said, the actual plot does leave a lot to be desired as others have pointed out.

Anyway, I'm overall glad I read this although I'm a bigger fan of Chabon's other works.

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As someone who's usually the whitest white guy in the room I just do not understand how people can be so obsessed with racial identity.

Totally aside from this issue specifically with respect to this book, I think if you're a white guy it's a lot easier not to be obsessed with racial identity.

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Totally aside from this issue specifically with respect to this book, I think if you're a white guy it's a lot easier not to be obsessed with racial identity.

Yeah, that was a disclaimer. I'm very much part of the American majority culture--to the point where it's (almost?) impossible for me to put myself in the shoes of someone who's not.

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As far as the book goes, I seem to be closest to Chris' position: there are quite a few unfortunate choices (the Obama scene, the overall flabbiness of the book, the at times unrealistically inserted references) but to me the characters especially made it worth reading. I also found the dialogues very pleasant to read, to the point that all of the characters developed a voice for me. Especially Gwen (mentally cast as Pam Grier with dreads) was a plasure to read.

In a lot of ways, this is the "Hotline Miami" of books. It's mechanically solid, interesting to experience, and feels like it's trying to say something, but never follows through.

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That's an interesting comparison because after watching some streams of Hotline Miami I am absolutely certain I will never play it. The headache-inducing visual cathode-like effects and the over-the-top gore are very off-putting to me somehow. I guess in both case style outweighs substance.

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Finished it yesterday. Haven't listened to the podcast yet.

This is the first Chabon book that manages to bore me. I tore through The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, The Yiddish Policemen's Union, even Manhood for Amateurs. But this time I kept wondering if this was just a sitcom-like story with rather unambitious plots. Turns out that it was. Plus the writing is so pretentious I made me cringe: I am traumatized by the whole chapter that contains only commas, as if to imitate the impression a long take would make in a movie. I found that so gimmicky, so artificial...

Now there are a lot of good things in the book, some scenes (Gwen and Aviva's hearing), some witty lines, the atmosphere. I'm currently going through a jazz phase so I enjoyed the musical references and the vinyl store atmosphere. But I found the tarantino and shaolin references a bit too heavy handed. I felt like CHabon was trying to force the atmospheres down my throat.

I think it boils down to this: Given its narrative content, the book should have been shorter. Chabon spends too many words indulging in his own "trip".

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I really enjoyed the episode. Sean and Chris have a great chemistry on the subject, though I do hope Video Books Rodkin knows he's missed.

Bonus points for:

A. Glossing right over the subject of race, which could have easily taken over and dragged down the episode.

B. Keeping the nitpicking in perspective. (The story really does have a lot going for it when you disregard, well, the story.) The respect for the author really shines through regardless.

This also got me very excited to check out Kavalier & Clay. As previously mentioned, my favourite thing about the show so far has been its tendency to encourage extracurricular reading.

Wonderful to hear you're shaking things up with an older selection in January. The Great Gatsby was literally next on my reading list. Very thoughtful of you!

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I was listening to the cast and realized I might've missed something. You mention Kavalier and Klay's research being peppered throughout Telegraph Avenue. It didn't strike me, do you have an example?

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I was listening to the cast and realized I might've missed something. You mention Kavalier and Klay's research being peppered throughout Telegraph Avenue. It didn't strike me, do you have an example?

I think Sean was the one who brought that up so I don't want to speak for him, but I think he simply meant the not-infrequent references to the world of Marvel comics, including places like "Wakanda." I had never heard of that before reading Telegraph Avenue, but it was a fairly significant fictional reference in the book.

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I think Sean was the one who brought that up so I don't want to speak for him, but I think he simply meant the not-infrequent references to the world of Marvel comics, including places like "Wakanda." I had never heard of that before reading Telegraph Avenue, but it was a fairly significant fictional reference in the book.

Yeah -- the characters talk a bit about superheroes throughout and even got into the racial history of a lot of Marvel characters (Archy admitting that all of his favorites were white) and it seemed like content that was there for Chabon to pull from given the body of research he did for Kavalier and Klay.

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Yay, Gatsby! Great excuse to reread a great book. Also a short book!

I liked the pod. I'm glad you guys liked the book, because after reading it and enjoying it I was worried I'd listen to the pod and it would just be two hours of dudes I respect tearing the shit out of a book I liked. Glad that you guys actually seemed to be on the same page as me,so to speak, when it comes to the relative merits and demerits of the book. That said, the pop-culture references never bothered me much-- I think after one or two my brain just said "well apparently this takes place in some strange alternate universe where everyone is a fucking nerd" and proceeded on that assumption.

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So Gatsby will be the book of January? Cool, I have it on my bookshelf. Just started reading Cloud Atlas, though, and I'm already hooked, so I'll have to see whether I can finish that and the Gatsby by next year to be able to take part in the pre-discussion (for once).

Sean, Chris, (Jake?), please figure out a place to list the upcoming book podcast books (under "Shows" maybe?). This detective work is killing me.

By the way, thanks for revealing the books well in advance! I really appreciate it.

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