The Business Side of Video (Space) Games EXCLUSIVELY ON IDLE THUMBS

[SuperBiasedMan]

I felt the same so I immediately bought Sunset off of them from their itch.io store at http://taleoftales.itch.io

 

It's unlikely Sunset can be made profitable let alone they could be turned onto keeping games as a big focus but it will at least help break even and reward good work.

[juv3nal]

Their post about the closure is both extraordinarily open and heartbreaking.

 

 I was a sunset backer and this is the terrible.

[Justin Leego]

Whaaaaat. But surely Sunset is their best work yet, a true breakthrough moment, a beacon for things to come. Is it not? Is it not good?

[Problem Machine]

Am I the only one who feels like this PR company they hired completely dropped the ball here? All that effort they put into making Sunset a more traditionally approachable game isn't helpful if no one knows that's what it is, and though I've heard some good buzz on Sunset I had no idea it was any different than their usual interesting-but-inaccessible approach. All of the vectors I would have usually expected to hear about this from have been silent about the specifics of why this is a game I should be interested in.

 

It's a shitty situation, but it bothers me that the takeaway that a lot of people seem to be getting is that it's not worth bothering to make a game more approachable or accessible.

[Merus]

I am part of the problem, because I will forever think of Tale of Tales and think of their game that's an incomprehensible French film.

[Justin Leego]

Perhaps it's that Tales already had a reputation that was framing perspectives on what Sunset was. Sunset's appreciative critical reception would have enabled them to more effectively court that audience with whatever came next, if it was as 'accessible'.

Well. Back to hoping for Pewdie / Notch / Mobile or Console Publisher / David Bowie to swoop in.

[Spenny]

Am I the only one who feels like this PR company they hired completely dropped the ball here? All that effort they put into making Sunset a more traditionally approachable game isn't helpful if no one knows that's what it is, and though I've heard some good buzz on Sunset I had no idea it was any different than their usual interesting-but-inaccessible approach. All of the vectors I would have usually expected to hear about this from have been silent about the specifics of why this is a game I should be interested in.

 

It's a shitty situation, but it bothers me that the takeaway that a lot of people seem to be getting is that it's not worth bothering to make a game more approachable or accessible.

 

This is the read I get of the situation as well, all I really know about Sunset is that it was kickstarted game, and now it's a released game.  Most other small games will do a lot of work between those points. Were there demos at conventions? Previews for press? Throwing the devs on podcasts? Anything? I don't know, but this story is giving me an appreciation for why studios have the outward facing media person. 4000 units is scarily low. It's not as if this is their first game, they have a reputation, why didn't they capitalize on it? Accessibility should complement their art, not hinder it. Their messaging was bad, or worse, absent. 

[brkl]

I looked at the trailer connected to the article and got the sense that everything in the plot was revealed to me, but I didn't know at all how the game would play. That's the opposite of what I need!

[Problem Machine]

I didn't watch the trailer but that's also how a lot of the discourse around the game has been. Like on the cast Danielle gave a synopsis and was enthusiastic about the game, but didn't really give much idea of what the moment-to-moment action of the game was. Anna Anthropy was saying on twitter that we had to ask what it was that made Gone Home a hit and Sunset a failure, and to me that's the biggest thing: Long before playing, I knew that Gone Home was basically the exploration and storytelling component of a Bioshock game put into a mundane and non-violent context. Admittedly, I have an advantage in that regard as a Thumbs reader, but I think Gone Home did a really good job of conveying that basic tenet of design in a way the promotion/presentation of Sunset just hasn't handled well at all.

[SuperBiasedMan]

It looks like Apple have pulled any game that contains a depiction of the confederate flag

 

http://toucharcade.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-confederate-flag/

 

Some people are pleased that Apple is following suit with other companies that want to stop the widespread use of a racist symbol, but this is also bringing up people's unease with how Apple handles the app store. Literally any appearance of the flag has lead to removal of the app, and people have noted that films which contain the flag aren't removed from iTunes.

 

This does reinforce my belief that I'll never want to make an iGame unless it's just a port from Android, but frankly I think this is probably better than not doing anything. There's a ton of games on that store and I can't really imagine that many were made socially consciously. I hope that Apple will allow games that handle it well to be returned to the store, but even if that doesn't happen I prefer this to letting the shitty games roam free on the store.

[JonCole]

I just think it says more about Apple not particularly liking being in the games business (yet still liking the money from it) than it does about them being socially responsible. Strikes me as aggressively lazy, it's not all that different from them outright banning games for sex or violence reasons despite various games actually taking a nuanced approach to those themes. I mean, it's not hard to imagine a game that portrays the Confederate flag in a responsible, non-glorifying way just like books or movies do.

[SuperBiasedMan]

I agree it's lazy rather than socially responsible, but not doing this is even lazier and worse off for people anyway so I think I'd rather this course for it. As much as I hate Apple's idea of what a game is, a lot of the games on their store do fit into their mould.

[clyde]

As distribution-platforms become more popular and more centrally controlled, we are going to end up with enforcements of their terms of use that remind us that they are not open platforms. I would have probably made the same decision they did in this case, but they also took Phone Story off the store. It's a weird situation. I wouldn't want Gamejolt to leave a game up even though it's a simulation of beating up a specific person made as an act of intimidation.

[itsamoose]

I really don't like this apple thing, to me it's just another example of games being judged by their aesthetics rather than the content or message of the game.  Apple doesn't like political messages in games, but they routinely allow games where you topple dictators, kill gods, free slaves, conquer territory, etc.  It seems like so long as there aren't any direct comparisons to history to be made, or direct representations of that history, you are fine.  As has been pointed out, they aren't banning movies with the confederate flag, or albums depicting it--they are just going after an easy target.  I get wanting to remove the flag from statehouses, or stop selling things that fetishize it, but what is to be the result of this other than games about a particular period in American history not being made?

 

I really don't understand why companies that own these massive distribution systems aren't willing to look at the specifics of things.  Apple is probably the most egregious example of this, but it happens elsewhere as well.  Yes it would be a difficult task, but I haven't heard a good argument made as to why it isn't worth doing other than the cost.  If Apple is going to continue making money on the sales of apps in their store, and being as large as they are, don't they have some responsibility to make sure they are only taking this kind of action when necessary?

[clyde]

I really don't understand why companies that own these massive distribution systems aren't willing to look at the specifics of things.  Apple is probably the most egregious example of this, but it happens elsewhere as well.  Yes it would be a difficult task, but I haven't heard a good argument made as to why it isn't worth doing other than the cost.  If Apple is going to continue making money on the sales of apps in their store, and being as large as they are, don't they have some responsibility to make sure they are only taking this kind of action when necessary?

 

If I was in Apple's position, I would do this as a deliberate political message that says "We want to devalue and humilate those who think that a heritage of enslavement is something to be proud of." That would be my reason for doing it so broadly.

Some developers might have to get creative and do some extra work, but whatever. Sending a clear message that says "Fuck you you fucking racists, you aren't welcome" would be worth it to me. And I think they've done it without having to remove movies or books or whatever. 

 

I agree that the ability of Apple to do this is bothersome though. Really, what I don't like about it is that Apple's store isn't open and that it is so incredibly large. I don't enjoy distributors like Walmart and Apple deciding what messages to promote and which ones to starve. So in summary, I would do this if I could, but I don't want anyone to have the power to do it.

[itsamoose]

In the case of a game that seeks to promote the values of the confederacy I agree with you.  That begs the question in what way does Ultimate General: Gettysburg, or any of the other US civil war wargames, promote or in any way support slavery?  They are modelling battles in a particular period of history, using the best representations of those units available, but I don't think that's to say they are supporting or promoting their cause.  Meanwhile there are a number of albums on iTunes where the artists say things like "the south will rise again" or represent the flag constantly, but in order to take those down Apple would suddenly have to contend with celebrities.  They can pick on game developers because they don't have the same level of celebrity or the voice that some of these other artists do.

[clyde]

I really feel you on this itsamoose, I really do. I think you are right, but I just want to kick racists in the balls so bad that I'm focused on how this is being taken rather than having my feelings be trumped by the sloppy, heavy handedness. To be honest, I like the fact that this feels like an abuse of power. The reason I like that is because it makes it feel like Apple is risking some sort of timeless, objective moral high-ground to just sucker punch people with more interest in free-speech than in the concerns of existing members of a minority who has been both brutally and subtlely oppressed for centuries. Does that make sense? Like, I don't necessarily think that your example game is promoting slavery, but as clyde, I just love the sense that a inconsiderate tidal motion is causing problems with anyone near a flag that many are using for the purposes of explicit and implicit hate-speech.

I really agree with you though, I'm just selfish and angry about this particular issue and I like watching things burn.

By the way, I would think it was awesome if Apple ends up doubling down and removing Gone With The Wind or David Allen Coe's music when the free-speech contingent puts pressure on them. A nice drip-feed of messy anti-racist culling of the arts appeals to me.

[Ninety-Three]

I understand your point Clyde, but I think the problem is that banning Ultimate General: Gettysburg is clearly and demonstrably wrong, and that undermines the whole statement. The mere existence of people who were unjustly affected by the sweeping ban will mean that everyone, even the actual racists, can point to the unjust examples and say "This was a bad thing and Apple should undo it. See, look at Ultimate General: Gettysburg!", and they won't be wrong. It's a hell of an "ends justify the means" collateral-damage-a-thon, which can be satisfying, but I think the phrase "ends justify the means collateral-damage-a-thon" indicates why it's not actually good.

[Merus]

I really agree with you though, I'm just selfish and angry about this particular issue and I like watching things burn.

 

http://molleindustria.org/booFlag/

[tegan]

So I know this place skews a little older than me, so it's likely that none of you have the nostalgia to care about this, but really want to see a postmortem on Neopets.

 

For those who don't remember, Neopets is an online RPG-ish, Virtual Pet-ish, Gaia Online-ish thing launched in 1999 and meant specifically for kids. It's still going after sixteen years, and has generally aggregated to be one of the largest spaces meant for kids on the internet. And I mean for kids. There's a larger discussion to be had about making safe spaces for kids on the internet, but like... if you're under 13, you need to have your parents sign and in fax a form in to use the chat features on the site.

 

Anyway, last year, Neopets got bought by Knowledge Adventure, the company that makes all that Jumpstart edutainment software. They severely downsized the staff without warning, firing community leaders who had been with the site for years as well as the entire creative team, leaving the site running on a skeleton crew. Site features also began breaking in ways that still haven't been addressed. As of yesterday, a server move turned off most of the word filters and kept the moderators from logging in, and within about fifteen minutes the entire site had become an amazing flash mob made of porn and people looking to score crystal meth.

A bunch of people I follow on tumblr who were just the right age to still have fondness for the site began to break down everything they knew about what's been happening at Neopets, and it sounds like exactly the kind of trainwreck I'd love to read a book about.

[jennegatron]

So I know this place skews a little older than me, so it's likely that none of you have the nostalgia to care about this, but really want to see a postmortem on Neopets.

 

For those who don't remember, Neopets is an online RPG-ish, Virtual Pet-ish, Gaia Online-ish thing launched in 1999 and meant specifically for kids. It's still going after sixteen years, and has generally aggregated to be one of the largest spaces meant for kids on the internet. And I mean for kids. There's a larger discussion to be had about making safe spaces for kids on the internet, but like... if you're under 13, you need to have your parents sign and in fax a form in to use the chat features on the site.

 

Anyway, last year, Neopets got bought by Knowledge Adventure, the company that makes all that Jumpstart edutainment software. They severely downsized the staff without warning, firing community leaders who had been with the site for years as well as the entire creative team, leaving the site running on a skeleton crew. Site features also began breaking in ways that still haven't been addressed. As of yesterday, a server move turned off most of the word filters and kept the moderators from logging in, and within about fifteen minutes the entire site had become an amazing flash mob made of porn and people looking to score crystal meth.

A bunch of people I follow on tumblr who were just the right age to still have fondness for the site began to break down everything they knew about what's been happening at Neopets, and it sounds like exactly the kind of trainwreck I'd love to read a book about.

 

I would be totally 100% into this, as I think I'm within a year or so of you tegan and have fond memories of neopets and the little blue penguin thing I had there.

[miffy495]

I was 11 when Neopets hit, so I was into it for a while but fell off quickly as I became a teenage boy who was too cool for that shit. I have fond memories of it and had no idea it was still running for so long. I'd totally read that.

[SecretAsianMan]

My only interaction with Neopets was helping my cousin who is 12 years my junior play some of the games on there to get whatever the currency was.  I don't remember what the games were other than basic flash games and the type of things that dominate mobile markets these days.

[Bjorn]

Oh wow, I would totally read about the fall of Neopets.  I, weirdly enough, played around with it for a little while.  My daughter was into it, so I played some of the games with her (I remember an extended meta quest thing about finding map pieces), but I also eventually found a couple of the games that I rather liked as little time wasters when I'd have 5 minutes or so to kill. 

 

 

Edited to add:  Bummer, they must have purged old accounts at some point, as neither my old username nor email are found in their system.

[Griddlelol]

Man I remember Neopets. It competed for my time with some weird Alien game. I don't really remember anything about it other than that I was allowed to play it.

 

The Alien game had like an alien thing that looks like the classic "Gray" and you could give it a trench coat and uzis or something then send it out on some weird text adventure RPG thing.

Does any one else remember that?