Murdoc

Ouya: Ooooh Yeah!

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A lot of the boasts they made during the kickstarter seem very hollow under scrutiny, such as that it'll have 1080p output. The Raspberry Pi has 1080p output for a fraction of the price, I'd be impressed if it could do that while maintaining a constant high FPS.

I don't think that's really a fair comment. The Ouya is basically the hardware analog to the Nexus 7. It has basically the same Tegra 2 guts. So you should probably expect similar performance to what you see on those things. They appear to have slapped a HUGE fan on there. I am assuming that's so they could take the clockspeed of the GPU up for some better fill rate for 1080p displays. Until someone actually has software running on it I think it's to early to judge stuff like hardware performance (but it's not going to be spectacular we are talking about the same kind of hardware running a budget tablet, albeit a good one).

The controllers look pretty lame but this is first run hardware [face_shrug] We'll have to see how it ends up. I hope they end up slipping the ship date. I do not think 3 months is enough time for them to iron this out into an acceptable launch product.

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I don't think that's really a fair comment. The Ouya is basically the hardware analog to the Nexus 7. It has basically the same Tegra 2 guts. So you should probably expect similar performance to what you see on those things. They appear to have slapped a HUGE fan on there. I am assuming that's so they could take the clockspeed of the GPU up for some better fill rate for 1080p displays. Until someone actually has software running on it I think it's to early to judge stuff like hardware performance (but it's not going to be spectacular we are talking about the same kind of hardware running a budget tablet, albeit a good one).

The controllers look pretty lame but this is first run hardware [face_shrug] We'll have to see how it ends up. I hope they end up slipping the ship date. I do not think 3 months is enough time for them to iron this out into an acceptable launch product.

For what it's worth, Tegra 3 on both not Tegra 2. I should also say that you're speaking about Tegra 3 as though it's some unproven standard, but Tegra 3 has performed at 1080p handily on devices like the Asus Transformer Infinity through games like Shadowgun and Grand Theft Auto 3. While these certainly won't stand up next to consoles running games like Gears of War 3 and Grand Theft Auto V, the fact that this particular mobile chipset has a track record of games running smoothly and sometimes quite beautifully at 1080p is nothing to scoff at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RErBWa-ibKQ

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I'm not talking about it like it's some unproven standard, quite the opposite. I am saying that there's not reason to say it's not going to be able to push 1080p especially with more space for cooling. I think we have a good idea of what kind of games this is going to be able to push. I actually have a console coming in the first batch of retails just to have something to mess around with.

I'm more doubtful about their store and ability to sell the console to anyone other then kickstarter backers. If nothing else it'll be a fun little hobbyist android box to play with.

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I'm not talking about it like it's some unproven standard, quite the opposite. I am saying that there's not reason to say it's not going to be able to push 1080p especially with more space for cooling. I think we have a good idea of what kind of games this is going to be able to push. I actually have a console coming in the first batch of retails just to have something to mess around with.

I'm more doubtful about their store and ability to sell the console to anyone other then kickstarter backers. If nothing else it'll be a fun little hobbyist android box to play with.

Totally fudged that, meant to be responding to the guy you were and simply noting Tegra 3 rather than Tegra 2 on your post. Sorry for the confusion.

That said, I have the same general concerns about retail; these games aren't even selling "well" on platforms that have literally tens of millions of units on the market, so what makes Ouya any more prepared to do so? I prematurely feel sorry for anyone who develops games directly for the platform rather than Android in general.

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When the people manufacturing the device claim that it's designed to be easy to "hack", there's nearly no value for developers to target the system as a primary or solitary platform. Piracy and jailbreaking is enough of a problem on the already existing devices.

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Let's be a little more precise with words here. Jailbreaking isn't an issue here - root access does not necessarily support or promote piracy directly, so it's not worth speaking in the same breath as piracy as a problem with the Ouya.

With that out of the way, piracy will almost certainly be a problem with the platform as piracy is so solidly entrenched in mobile platforms already. Consumer expectations will create a demand for games being free, whether or not they should be. The (admittedly super-ambiguous) dialogue about how games will be sold for the platform seems to fight piracy through free-to-play systems and some kind of authentication system to upgrade from widely available demo versions of games and paid versions (ie, the "all games are free" message). That last part rides on a lot of faith, which can only be played out as games are actually created, released, and consumers have their way with them.

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Even if outright piracy doesn't cause big issues (and I think it will) easy root access kinda obviates their store. Everyone is going to be using the play store in a matter of a week after it hits the market. Good for users crappy for the ouya folks...

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Sorry to dig this thread up but something came up, via Gamasutra, that I think is related.

 

Newsbrief: Version 4.1 of the popular Unity game engine was released Thursday which, among other enhancements, it introduces multiscreen AirPlay support.

AirPlay is Apple's protocol for allowing the streaming of audio and video from one of its devices to another. With this update, Unity games running on iOS 4.3 or later can be displayed on a receiver device such as Apple TV, while a user's iOS device is used as the game's controller.

More information on Unity 4.1's features available in its release notes.

 

Seems like Apple came up with their own solution for playing games on a bigger screen. Uh, and it's free (provided you have a receiver of some sort).

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Android devices on 4.2 have miracast built in (a similar kind of screen sharing technology). But no one really seems to be using it for anything yet.There's nothing to stop ouya or Google from providing a similar functionality.

Ouya's selling point is basically exclusively the assured presence of a controller on a self publishing focused platform. The fact that it's android is only due to the fact that android is open source and has developer support.

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Sorry to dig this thread up but something came up, via Gamasutra, that I think is related.

 

 

Seems like Apple came up with their own solution for playing games on a bigger screen. Uh, and it's free (provided you have a receiver of some sort).

 

AirPlay was introduced in 2010 and it was really more intended for streaming movies and music to your TV than anything else. Very few games have taken advantage of it. 

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AirPlay was introduced in 2010 and it was really more intended for streaming movies and music to your TV than anything else. Very few games have taken advantage of it. 

Wouldn't that be a statement that the game developers aren't interested in this as a concept?

 

I guess that's evident from few companies standing up for the OUYA going "oh us!"

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Developers aren't interested because the people playing Temple Run aren't the kind of people who know what AirPlay is or how to use it.

If you're some kid playing Star Wars Angry Birds then the idea of streaming it to a television is a weird novelty with no real benefit.

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The reason no one cares is because almost all the games anyone cares about require you to touch the device's screen, which almost always means looking at the device. What is the point of streaming the same content the user is looking at on the tablet to the TV? I can think of some strange unbalanced mp style games with multiple local clients, but nothing that would be easy to implement or obvious.

I think it's important to note miracast and airplay are about getting the exact screeencast from one device to another. Not about second screen functionality or extending the logical display space of your device.

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I thought AirPlay had both Regular AirPlay mirroring and, if the app supports it, second screen ability. So the iPhone screen can show something different and essentially becomes a (shitty, non-tactile) controller.

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From my understanding airplay has 2 modes. Direct screen mirroring is one of those modes. The other mode supports playing a video stream from the device to a TV. I have only seen this work playing directly from a file on the device but I don't see why you couldn't make some kind of special file type (like a unix socket or something) and then "stream" through that file. I also am totally unsure what kind of state your device is in if you do stream a file over airplay. They could very well be using the graphics hardware on your device to do something to / for that file. Based on what I read I imagine you could hack together something using that mode (streaming video files to an airplay endpoint depending on events generated in game on the device?) but it sounds to me like a far stretch to render an entire second scene, encode it to video, and then stream it to the endpoint.

 

Either way currently the amount of technical work needed to do something like that is probably way to great for the likely payoff (total failure). 

 

BTW I am sure there are people on here that are better equipped to answer that particular question then I am. I actually don't have any direct iOS development experience. I've really only worked with Unity and in Android. 

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BTW I am sure there are people on here that are better equipped to answer that particular question then I am. I actually don't have any direct iOS development experience.

 

Reporting for duty! :)

 

Yeah, two screen modes: mirroring, and second screen. The second screen doesn't *have* to be a video stream (although that is an option). It's just another screen you can render anything to. I'm positive this is the case with a wired connection, but I'm pretty sure it works over AirPlay as well.

 

Two problems, though. 1) rendering a second screen on the same GPU is a lot of work, but more importantly 2) latency. There's a reason why the Wii U has crazy specialised tech for their streaming solution.

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Actually better then I really expected. I think the time when it's 100% ok to throw stones is when they have it for sale in retail channels in I believe July. if they can't have their core software sorted by then...

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Yeah, I'm a little wary about giving a single shit about reviews for products like Ouya at this stage in their retail schedules. From the very beginning, the Ouya devs said that the product released to Kickstarter backers would be pre-final release. Some products like for instance the Able Kone III (a cone-shaped coffee brewing system that fits into a Chemex) use Kickstarter as a preorder system; the day the item ships to backers is the same day that the item is available for purchase. If me, someone who often doesn't care about Kickstarter, could buy a Ouya from Amazon right now I'd care about The Verge's review.

 

I feel like product reviews are supposed to provide insight into product purchases. I can't buy an Ouya, so a review is pointless. Especially in this case, when most of the knocks against the device are software-related. I'd be living in a fantasy dreamland if I assumed they'd all be fixed at the time of retail release, but it still does the product and consumer a great disservice to put out a review based on things that could almost certainly change at the time of release.

 

This is part of my problem with early SimCity reviews that plastered "REVIEW" on the headline rather than something like "REVIEW IN PROGRESS". If you give something a really high score and I pick it up only to find out that it's broke as shit, your review is a total failure for me. This example is a bit more distant from a hardware review because a game like SimCity can be regarded for artistic merits as well as mechanical merits, but I feel like my point stands.

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That review spent a long time being annoyed by subjective design. I don't see what's wrong with how the console looks. The controller stuff though, I'd like to find out more, definitely feel like the buttons will confuse me.

 

Also on the complaints of the lack of games, I thought a lot developers were in tow to make some games for release?

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The Verge is definitely not the only outlet to complain about the triggers on the controller, which is disappointing. As someone who plays a lot of racing games, not having a reliable analog throttle control might be a deal breaker for me.

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I held their prototype controller at a few events. There's not a lot to like about that thing. Thankfully it looks like you'll be able to get PS3 controllers to pair with the ouya. With any luck we won't need to use them anyways. 

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I don't like the PS3 controller either, though. :( The triggers on that thing suck pretty bad too.

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I mean it's no 360 controller (the thumb sticks aren't staggered and the triggers are pretty junky, not to mention the PS3 controller doesn't have concaved thumb cradles!). However I am totally sure it'll be nicer then the default OUYA controller. 

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Yeah, on the PS3 there's not as much chance of accidentally slicing your thumb open while using the analog stick.

 

Jesus seriously that is some terrible lack-of-mating on the OWAT controller.

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