ThunderPeel2001

Broken Age - Double Fine Adventure!

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I feel like there is not enough appreciation for the amazing work that Justin Bailey, Double Fine's VP of Product Development, does, and also his name you guys

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I really hope they can get the funds with the early access system, but I wonder how many people missed out on the Kickstarter are the early access kind of people? 

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The new documentary episode is up! A couple of times where I had to avert my eyes, because I saw beautiful, beautiful spoilers. What a load of uninformed nerd rage concerning their decision to split the game into 2 parts, by the way. Really frustrating to watch.

 

I think that most of the people that backed it aren't angry about it. Most of the rage seems like it's mostly because it's the internet, where someone always irrationally hates something. I mean, it's still a big screw up but the game is still happening unless no one buys the early access.

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The game is still happening unless no one buys the early access.

 

Oh great; time to buy early access gift codes for all my friends to make sure I get the game I Kickstarted!

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Someone I follow was objecting to the apology being all "OMG I designed too much game!", and calling it a personality cult. I can understand someone not liking that being given instead of just "oops, we fucked up", but it doesn't change the actual issue. A bunch of Kickstarter projects have way overshot their funding target and ended up in trouble as a result of someone expecting a small project having to scope and run a much bigger one. I find this DF thing perfectly understandable, and I think they're acting well by their backers.

 

The other complaint I saw was that this was only revealed after the Massive Chalice one had concluded. Maybe they did wait, but why the fuck wouldn't they? I'd do the same.

 

This kind of thing, with crowdfunding, is kind of uncharted. I see it as an act of good faith (or certainly good intention) to alter scope when faced with a vastly increased budget, rather than just making the $400K adventure game and pocketing the difference. Doing that's also in the spirit of not using Kickstarter as a preordering system.

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I think the two games are too divergent to compare budget/scheduling. Adventure games are wall to wall unique assets and content, where MC is going to be more about tilesets and iteration/refinement of the rules. 

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It doesn't bother me really, except that it worries me about what will happen Massive Chalice, especially because they didn't raise five times their goal like Broken Age did.

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One thing that bothers me (and that's an exaggeration beacuse it doesn't actually bother me) is that I kind of expected a studio with some experience making games to have a better idea of budgeting.  In the case of a kickstarter where the people in it are making their first game, I can understand going over budget because they haven't done it before.  But in Tim's case, I was hoping that wouldn't happen since this isn't his first game.  I can't blame him for being ambitious though and as a backer I'm perfectly happy with the solution.

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I think it's just a Tim thing. He's always done and he most likely always will. If Molyneux's weakness is his inability to contain his excitement, Schafer's is his inability to contain his ideas. This is probably why he should have someone really good as keeping things together, although on the flip side, would Molyneux and Schafer come up with such great things if these aspects of their personalities were suppressed? Would we really want Broken Age to be a stripped-back version of what it's going to eventually be so the bottom line is resolutely adhered to?

 

I think Double Fine will be OK with doing things this way so long as they keep the short but sweet games coming. Those are much easier to plan and keep on target, especially with their agile development workflow (which should really make budgeting time and money quite straightforward). Schafer should engage with those too so they have his special sauce, but not get into full-on 'everything in my head will be in this game' mode.

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I say no harm no foul.

 

It is fairly common for us to go over budget when we develop new features for our software despite the fact that our group has been continuously developing new features for over 15 years now. In those cases we make up for it through licensing fees, maintenance contracts, and other features that have surplus budget. It all usually works out in the end because our clients are happy with the quality of product they are getting and we are able to recoup the costs through other means. Not too unlike what is happening here.

 

Also, is this not all that different than a AAA game being delayed multiple times until the developer feels that it is of a high enough quality to be released to the masses? Maybe a company like Blizzard has the money to fund the additional development themselves but I imagine a lot of companies that go through a publisher end up asking for more money than they originally anticipated so that they can afford to keep polishing the game until it is ready for release.

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Not to repeat myself, but I think if they met their modest goals they could have made a nice modest game and satisfied their terms.  

 

The runaway success is as much curse as blessing. It became a transformative moment for all indie studios, showing a potential third path away from a publisher model that has dogged this group for a long time. The whole process has become more than making 1 game.

 

If this works they will have really created a new option, so to a point, they have to go big. I don't envy them, but I don't think you could find a better company to try it. 

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I think it's just a Tim thing. He's always done and he most likely always will. If Molyneux's weakness is his inability to contain his excitement, Schafer's is his inability to contain his ideas. This is probably why he should have someone really good as keeping things together, although on the flip side, would Molyneux and Schafer come up with such great things if these aspects of their personalities were suppressed? Would we really want Broken Age to be a stripped-back version of what it's going to eventually be so the bottom line is resolutely adhered to?

 

I certainly wouldn't want Tim to compromise his vision if he can figure out a way of making it happen in a realistic manner, which is why my above thing doesn't actually bother me.  But at the same time I hope he learns from this experience so he's not forced into this situation again.

 

Also, is this not all that different than a AAA game being delayed multiple times until the developer feels that it is of a high enough quality to be released to the masses? Maybe a company like Blizzard has the money to fund the additional development themselves but I imagine a lot of companies that go through a publisher end up asking for more money than they originally anticipated so that they can afford to keep polishing the game until it is ready for release.

 

In the case of AAA games and going to the publisher for more money to polish it, there are probably equally many cases where the publisher said "No, we want this game now" and the devs were forced to put out a product they felt was unfinished.

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In the case of AAA games and going to the publisher for more money to polish it, there are probably equally many cases where the publisher said "No, we want this game now" and the devs were forced to put out a product they felt was unfinished.

 

Fair point. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to the pedigree of the developer and whether or not the publisher feels they will get a return on their investment. It is kind of hard to draw an analog here since there isn't really a precedent for this type of thing, but I do empathize with the problems they are facing. Software development can still be pretty unpredictable and even with the tightest, most well defined scope, unexpected things can happen.

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n the case of AAA games and going to the publisher for more money to polish it, there are probably equally many cases where the publisher said "No, we want this game now" and the devs were forced to put out a product they felt was unfinished.

 

A pretty great example of this is Brutal Legend.

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As a backer, this only means I'm getting a game closer to my original hopes. Every dime they collect from people and put towards funding the game just gives me more for my initial purchase. It doesn't cost me a thing. Perfectly happy. 

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As a backer, this only means I'm getting a game closer to my original hopes. Every dime they collect from people and put towards funding the game just gives me more for my initial purchase. It doesn't cost me a thing. Perfectly happy. 

Yes! I can't really imagine Tim Schafer making a "modest" adventure game. I guess Full Throttle was modest in size.

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Am I wrong in thinking it was Remo who warned against the game balloning in size in one of the first backer videos, or...?

 

I don't know how anyone can be angry, upset or too disappointed when they watch the teaser trailer previously posted. That should calm anyones nerves.

 

I wonder how many people missed out on the Kickstarter are the early access kind of people?

I think they will be secretly hoping backers will find it in them to be extra generous...

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How's the iPad version shaping up, could that possibly launch early then have the full game added as an update?

I don't think full price for half a game would sit very well with the average iTunes reviewer

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If you go back and watch the videos, every time someone talks about adding something, you can see Chris's head appear in the door or from behind a plant. He never says anything, but you can see it in his eyes.

 

I'm fine with all of this, especially since, in the end, we'll probably get the game with as much content as possible. As a bonus we get some real, tense documentary action! Even though they promised transparency from the start, I guess I wasn't really prepared for it. After having been exposed to the process of making games almost exclusively through marketing channels, it has been incredibly fascinating to see people discussing the project and then not having all the answers or necessarily agreeing on everything. It's no surprise, of course – game developers are humans, and I have lots of personal experience with disagreeing with people on software projects – but it's damn interesting. And the winnder of Best part of this episode goes to when Tim turns to the camera and points out the car/game analogy.

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Although honestly I think it's a bit bullshit that a company of apparent professionals can't allocate their resources effectively when they've known they had scoping problems for six months now. I don't know how you get into a position where you have to cut 75% of the content without some real incompetence going on somewhere in the project management, and based on the documentary videos I think that has to be laid at Tim's feet.

 

I feel that way too, honestly. I can't fathom why the game has taken this long or why it got overscoped so much, but I figured it was still going to be the original $400,000 game with lots of polish and extra content. It doesn't seem like what they came up with ended up being that at all and this episode came as a big surprise.

 

I feel like now they have created this behemoth where everyone was looking at Double Fine to be the Kickstarter poster boys and now they are pointing fingers. Plus I feel like a lot of the earlier documentary episodes showed that the studio had learned from similar mistakes with going over budget and creating delays on Psychonauts and Brutal Legend. I am worried this will all be spun around towards Tim Schafer again the way that somehow Grim Fandango, Psychonauts, and Brutal Legend made it to this stupid wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_failures_in_video_gaming

 

But in the end on a personal level, I am not bothered by this stuff, and I agree with Thrik here:

 

That said, I'm not upset because while Schafer's games have historically gone way over budget (and that includes Grim Fandango), the end result is often tremendous. I'm willing to wait for that, especially when it's a god damn adventure game.

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I'm bummed that this game is definitely cancelled and will never come out.  I never even considered that to be a possibility before today.

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I'm bummed that this game is definitely cancelled and will never come out.  I never even considered that to be a possibility before today.

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

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Just hours after I post that lapse of faith, I now discover (in a bag from my parents' house) that I am literally a card-carrying member of the Tim Schafer Fan Club.

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I'm sorry I ever doubted you, Tim!

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