The Cave: Ron Gilbert's Double Fine Game (A Tim Schafer Production) (Not Double Fine Adventure)

[CaptainFish]

I thought the good endings were the alternates.

 

Thinking about going back to this just to complete all the stories.

[elmuerte]

Yes, but if I only saw the good ending, then the alternate is the evil ending.

[CaptainFish]

Finished up all the endings today. I think I very much prefer the bad endings over the good. I understand that the good endings are mechanically about

learning the lesson that getting what you desire most at any costs isn't worth it, which is why you reject those objects to get them.

I think I would've preferred it if you could actually subvert the character puzzles themselves, maybe using other character abilities. With some of the character puzzle endings going so dark, the good endings don't seem earned.

 

I still really appreciate the general tone and content of the game!

[SecretAsianMan]

Let's assume at some point I will actually want to finish this game.  Which character's section/ending would you say was the most worth playing/seeing?  I've only done one playthough (and didn't even finish it) with the Knight, Twins, and Time Traveler.  I really liked the Twins' level, hated the Time Traveler's, and was meh on the Knight, mostly because I had it spoiled in a preview of the game so I knew what was going to happen.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Let's assume at some point I will actually want to finish this game.  Which character's section/ending would you say was the most worth playing/seeing?  I've only done one playthough (and didn't even finish it) with the Knight, Twins, and Time Traveler.  I really liked the Twins' level, hated the Time Traveler's, and was meh on the Knight, mostly because I had it spoiled in a preview of the game so I knew what was going to happen.

 

I can't say any one of them was "must see" compared to the others. You might enjoy: Hillbilly, Scientist, Monk, though (the Adventurer is probably the least interest one of them all).

[thorn]

I can't say any one of them was "must see" compared to the others. You might enjoy: Hillbilly, Scientist, Monk, though (the Adventurer is probably the least interest one of them all).

I disagree. The Adventurer was my favourite level, with real old-school puzzling. The Scientist was pretty good, though.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I disagree. The Adventurer was my favourite level, with real old-school puzzling. The Scientist was pretty good, though.

 

Really? It was the same puzzle over and over...? To each to his own, I guess.

[Tanukitsune]

Top tip: You can skip the Zoo section if you have The Monk: Just use his powers on the Hot Dog Machine - Praise The Lord! (If only there was something similar for the Mine and Desert Island sections.)

What? I just played with the Monk and I didn't work? Maybe I wasn't close enough? Damn! I should have tried again! 

 

I finally did a second playthough with the Monk, Time Traveler and Knight and I can't see why people were complaining about the Time Traveler's level, it was easiest level I've played! The best part was traveling through time and seeing skeletons of your companions that you left in the past! XD

 

Seriously, this was ridiculously easy... Oh, a stalactite column is blocking the way in a TIME TRAVEL level? Gee, I wonder what I have to do? And I need gas for an elevator and there is a prehistoric level? Come on! This is grade school level stuff!

 

Oh, I also love how the museum gets things wrong and how the description of items changes as you mess with the timeline!

 

I don't think I'll try to get both endings for all characters, but I'll have to play with the Hillbilly eventually... I guess I'll bring the Monk to skip the Zoo and I don't really know who else...

 

By the way, the Monk's Lotus Puzzle was the hardest for me, specially since I didn't know the game had a walk button and that you just had to press the button to use his power, the mouse pointer does have to be on the item you need... Frankly, it's the only time you need to walk in the whole game so I can see not knowing about this, but I still feel dumb.

 

I also remembered to take screenshots of the voice actors, apparently the voice of Clank is most of the characters in the Hillbilly level and the voice and Daphne was the Princess and the Hunter!

[CaptainFish]

Yeah, all the time traveler stuff made sense to me and I didn't have trouble with the mechanics either. Going to let your buddies in and seeing their skeletons was definitely a great touch, especially how they just kinda appear at the bottom of the screen without any fanfare.

[SecretAsianMan]

I always understood what I needed to do in the Time Traveler's level, but in one specific puzzle I had trouble getting the game to do what I wanted.  Namely,  

moving the log to fill the well.  I knew I had to get the log out of the way and I was pretty sure I knew how to do it, but it took several attempts until I finally got one of my characters to hold the log in place when I switched.  Several times when I switched, the log wasn't being held anymore and it rolled back into place.

I eventually got it but it was very frustrating.

[Tanukitsune]

Huh, I just got everybody out of the cave... I didn't realize that

the bad ending makes your character not appear outside of the Cave and the dialogue changes depending on whether they also chose the bad ending, the good one or if it's a mix. But what does that bad ending having your character not appear imply? That they can't leave the Cave for real unless they give up on the biggest desire?

[jeremywc]

Huh, I just got everybody out of the cave... I didn't realize that

the bad ending makes your character not appear outside of the Cave and the dialogue changes depending on whether they also chose the bad ending, the good one or if it's a mix. But what does that bad ending having your character not appear imply? That they can't leave the Cave for real unless they give up on the biggest desire?

 

Yea, I think it's a way of saying that their selfish desires are destructive and end up trapping them in the end. The only way to escape is to let go. There's also an achievement for taking all of the characters to the fortune teller machine in the Hillbilly's area, where he basically tries to point them in that direction.

[Tanukitsune]

GASP! What if... the Hillbilly can hold his breath underwater for exactly 10 minutes? He could be a descendant from Guybrush! (Yes, I know this is silly...)

 

I'm also trying to figure out which items or characters can be used to make so parts of the game easier, it seems the Hillbilly is the only one whose powers aren't used again out of his stage, the Monk and Timetraveler game break the game and items can be reused later in the game.

 

ThunderPeel told us how to use the Monk to skip the whole Zoo section, but you can also skip the Zoo section if you bring a sausage from the beginning of the game! The fuse from the beginning is used again the hillbilly stage, so you can skip a puzzle if you bring it with you.

 

Since I skipped the Zoo I couldn't try to see if the voice recorder could be used instead of the parrot, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did work.

 

Oh, the bucket from the miner works in the Time Traveler stage, but it's so easy that I wouldn't to bring it.

 

I can't really think of other items you can use to make the game easier.

[elmuerte]

You can use the postcard from the beginning of the game to get past the island.

[Cleinhun]

I was amusing to me that the museum had so much false information about the past despite the fact that there was a functional time machine literally in the next room.

[Tanukitsune]

You can use the postcard from the beginning of the game to get past the island.

I'm pretty sure you're joking, even if you could give the postcard to the hermit and that somehow makes him not get into the boat... you still have to get the boat to the other side of the island.

[ThunderPeel2001]

You can use the postcard from the beginning of the game to get past the island.

 

Don't you play with me... That would be awesome if it were true.

[Tanukitsune]

Damn, checking the stats on Steam is depressing, seeing how many choose the knight and how little people have actually completed the game makes me thing they quit because you couldn't kill stuff in the game.

 

It's strange to see that the Hillbilly is the second favorite... Did they expect him to have a boom stick or something? 

[ThunderPeel2001]

Well they just fixed a big bug in the achievements system, so it's likely not to be completely accurate.

 

I've done everything in the game apart from get through it without dying -- which seems like a really masochistic achievement to me.

 

Edit:

 

Actually, I suppose if we figured out what the shortest of cuts where, it might make it easier.

 

You say you can use the bucket to skip most of the Time Traveller's level? (I forget her level now -- how is that?)

 

Let's see:

 

Gift Shop #1 -- You can use the Scientist to skip getting the bucket to take the fuse out.

 

Knight -- You can use the Time Traveller to skip part of the Knight's level.

The Hillbilly -- You can use the Scientist to to get the fuse quickly/You can take the fuse with you.

 

The Mine -- I don't think you can skip any of this -- most annoying!

 

The Adventurer -- I don't know any shortcuts.

The Twins -- Take the fuse?

Time Traveller -- Take the bucket?

 

The Zoo -- The Monk can grab the Hotdog/You can take the Hotdog with you

 

The Scientist -- Don't know any shortcuts

The Monk -- Don't know any shortcuts

 

The Island -- Maybe take the tape recorder to use instead of the parrot?

 

Gift Shop #2 -- Don't know of any shortcuts

 

Hmm!

[Tanukitsune]

I thought the only bugged achievements were the ones with "one player only" in them?

 

PS: I don't care what people say, I'm going to try to use Cheat Engine to get the no Death one, I'm no expert, but I'm hoping it's not just a binary "You died" and it's "Number of deaths", because screw No deaths chivos. 

[ThunderPeel2001]

I thought the only bugged achievements were the ones with "one player only" in them?

What does this mean?

[Tanukitsune]

I'm not sure, but I think the game used to think you're playing co-op if you used a gamepad and these achievements didn't unlock before the fix?

[CaptainFish]

I actually got the no death run the other day. I used the knight, the monk and the scientist, I think. The knight I used because he can shortcut falls with his invis, and the scientist I used because her hacking is helpful with fuses and some doors, and the monk has the shortcuts previously mentioned (grab the key in the knight, solo grab the treasure). The only hints I'd give with the mine is to use the knight to quickly drop down and grab more dynamite, take the shovel early and remember the puzzles need 1, 3 and 2 people from top to bottom, and that the top puzzle puts your dude at the miner, and finishing all 3 teleports all your dudes.

I died once on the island (fell into that hole with the hot air balloon while I wasn't paying attention), but I exited and retried and it started at the start of the island rather than the exact midpoint I died at. I then finished it up and still got the achievement. I'm not entirely sure, but as long as you quit right after the death before completing another puzzle, the game might always restart you before the death for an easy out if you make a mistake.

 

I also encountered specific dialogue for skipping the sign with the url on it in the monk's level, so that was a nice find.

 

Huh, I just got everybody out of the cave... I didn't realize that

the bad ending makes your character not appear outside of the Cave and the dialogue changes depending on whether they also chose the bad ending, the good one or if it's a mix. But what does that bad ending having your character not appear imply? That they can't leave the Cave for real unless they give up on the biggest desire?

 

 

Yea, I think it's a way of saying that their selfish desires are destructive and end up trapping them in the end. The only way to escape is to let go. There's also an achievement for taking all of the characters to the fortune teller machine in the Hillbilly's area, where he basically tries to point them in that direction.

 

This is made even more clear if you replay after getting bad endings:

The characters who got bad ends appear as the skeletons in the first section and their greatest desires are the trinkets. Much like the three characters in the final section, they've become soley focused on their greatest desire and are stuck in the cave, obsessing over it.

[Tanukitsune]

I actually got the no death run the other day. I used the knight, the monk and the scientist, I think. The knight I used because he can shortcut falls with his invis, and the scientist I used because her hacking is helpful with fuses and some doors, and the monk has the shortcuts previously mentioned (grab the key in the knight, solo grab the treasure).

I died once on the island (fell into that hole with the hot air balloon while I wasn't paying attention), but I exited and retried and it started at the start of the island rather than the exact midpoint I died at. I then finished it up and still got the achievement. I'm not entirely sure, but as long as you quit right after the death before completing another puzzle, the game might always restart you before the death for an easy out if you make a mistake.

 

 

 

 

This is made even more clear if you replay after getting bad endings:

The characters who got bad ends appear as the skeletons in the first section and their greatest desires are the trinkets. Much like the three characters in the final section, they've become soley focused on their greatest desire and are stuck in the cave, obsessing over it.

Huh, so that actually works? I might try it again, but Brutal Legend is re-released today, so you know what that means! XP

[ThunderPeel2001]

I actually got the no death run the other day. I used the knight, the monk and the scientist, I think. The knight I used because he can shortcut falls with his invis, and the scientist I used because her hacking is helpful with fuses and some doors, and the monk has the shortcuts previously mentioned (grab the key in the knight, solo grab the treasure). The only hints I'd give with the mine is to use the knight to quickly drop down and grab more dynamite, take the shovel early and remember the puzzles need 1, 3 and 2 people from top to bottom, and that the top puzzle puts your dude at the miner, and finishing all 3 teleports all your dudes.

I died once on the island (fell into that hole with the hot air balloon while I wasn't paying attention), but I exited and retried and it started at the start of the island rather than the exact midpoint I died at. I then finished it up and still got the achievement. I'm not entirely sure, but as long as you quit right after the death before completing another puzzle, the game might always restart you before the death for an easy out if you make a mistake.

Good tips! I just remembered that The Monk can grab the Mallet from the Hillbilly's level, meaning you don't even need to worry about the fuse, too.

What's this about The Monk "solo grab the treasure"? And I wasn't sure if the Monk's TK worked on the Knight's level? I thought it didn't for some reason.

My tip is to save the Mine Cart Room that requires all three character until last. It's quicker when they're all teleported from there, rather than having to get them all out of that room (which is annoying) to the top level Room.