Sno

Shooty games with many bullets

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From the Radiant Silvergun thread and how much that went massively off rails into many different topics, i got the impression that i wasn't the only person here with a fondness for shmups.

Still, probably not enough of us to justify new topics for every upcoming game. So this, here. A place to stick anything related to shooters of the forced scrolling variety.

SO HEY.

Akai Katana is getting a truly unexpected world-wide localization via Europe's Rising Star Games. Those dudes just opened a North American branch, and Akai Katana will be the first game they publish in this region.

As is the case with a lot of these games, there isn't a ton of information about it on the English speaking internet, but it seems to have a reputation as being especially excellent. It's a Cave-developed game created, apparently, with some measure of collaboration with Treasure, and people are calling it a spiritual successor to Progear. (On the off chance anybody is familiar with that game.)

It looks pretty great, and it's out in a couple weeks. (Also, this world-wide version will apparently be "complete" with various add-ons included.)

BtWkcRCC3WM

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I'm not normally a fan of shmups, but I've had Jamestown in regular rotation for a while now. I'd wager it's more because of excellent aesthetic and score than actual gameplay. But if you haven't played that, you should.

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That game indeed looks great, I will be keeping an eye out, do you know which platforms it's out on? Joystiq said 360 it least.

What's the best way to get into these, I find the videos of these crazy shumps fascinating, I've been watching Ikaruga high scores and then there is the guy who plays 2 player Ikaruga by himself making it look easy. I tried Ikaruga and have problems clearing the first stage and I tried Radiant Silvergun and that's just lol no way.

Is it just a matter of grinding until the enemy patterns are in your head?

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I would recommend starting easy.

R-Type that has been remixed is a good place to start and I would recommend Trouble Witches Neo! and the Raiden Fighters Aces as other good spring boards after that.

But yes, there is a lot of remembering patterns to be done.

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That game indeed looks great, I will be keeping an eye out, do you know which platforms it's out on? Joystiq said 360 it least.

As has somewhat strangely been the case with a lot of the better shmups this generation, it's exclusively a 360 game. (Well, and an arcade game.) For whatever reason, the 360 in Japan fostered a really dedicated scene for these kinds of games.

What's the best way to get into these, I find the videos of these crazy shumps fascinating, I've been watching Ikaruga high scores and then there is the guy who plays 2 player Ikaruga by himself making it look easy. I tried Ikaruga and have problems clearing the first stage and I tried Radiant Silvergun and that's just lol no way.

I'm honestly not sure what i'd recommend. There's a weird thing where some of the hardest and most intimidating games in the genre also have some of the most leisurely and approachable easy modes, while games of a more moderate difficulty might end up having less of a low-end to ease people in. (Cave's games, actually, seem pretty good about covering the full difficulty spectrum.) Speaking generally, you kind of just have to be willing to beat your head against the game, play through levels over and over. However, since these games play out so quickly, you can iterate on your routine very rapidly. It can one of the most appealing things about the genre, having such immediate feedback that you are in fact gradually getting better at the game.

Is it just a matter of grinding until the enemy patterns are in your head?

Yes, but to different degrees. A lot of the navigational challenges and the particular style of rigid combo system present in Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun make playing them almost like playing a rhythm game, you don't have much freedom because the marks you're trying to hit are so specific and demanding. In contrast to those, I normally find really raw bullet hell games to be some of the most flexible examples of the genre, you have much more influence over the make-up of the action. (A lot of trying to corral bullets away from safe spots, exerting influence like that. Managing the battles in a very reactive way as opposed to rote memorization.)

R-Type that has been remixed is a good place to start and I would recommend Trouble Witches Neo! and the Raiden Fighters Aces as other good spring boards after that.

I don't know if i can agree with that. You're talking about R-Type Dimensions, the remake, right? For one, it's such an older style of shooter, and a game i've personally always found crazy difficult. I've never been fond of checkpoint restarts in shmups though, or specifically R-type in general, to be honest. Heh.

For another XBLA recommendation though, G.Rev's Strania is a pretty wonderful and underappreciated little gem. However, while not particularly difficult, it might fall under not having enough of a low-end for a beginner.

Raiden Fighters Aces is also definitely an excellent thing. I don't think you could go wrong with that, a huge compilation of three awesome games that are probably the right mix of where the genre eventually ended up without the unmitigated insanity.

If you're tolerant of feeling like a total creeper, Deathsmiles is an excellent game, and about as accessible as a genuine bullet hell game can be.

Also, has anybody played Sine Mora? The shooter Grasshopper just published on XBLA?

Edited by Sno

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I only played some shmups because of the last Cave sale on iOS, and I actually 1CC a few of them (on easy), but it was my first 1CC so it's a start?

I think they may have cancelled Raiden Fighters in Europe, I can't remember how long ago I pre-ordered it.

But frankly, I'd rather have a Gradius-style game with power ups, I miss being the one filling the screen with bullets now it's the other way around.;(

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I forgot about those iOS ports Cave has been doing. I understand those to be super watered down versions of their games, but that's probably the lowest bar of entry for seeing some of Cave's stuff.

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It's either that or pay 80$ for the 360 version... I'll take the water downed version. XP

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I am mostly a non-shmup/bullet hell type person, but rRootage is appealing to me in some way that others in the genre generally aren't and it is free and you should totally check it out if you haven't already.

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Don't play Sine Mora, it is pretty much rubbish. It makes the mistake that most western shooters make with poor feedback in terms of how to dodge enemies. The bosses don't have patterns, and too many unforseeable one-shot kills.

I finished it and couldn't find enough in the combo system to be bothered to continue. It is no way near as good as Omega V that suffers from some of its problems but OV excels in some places and Sine Mora doesn't.

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a bullet hell shmup on iOS sounds like a nightmare!

I know, right? And yet it WORKS! I even 1CC a few on easy!

The only one which was harder to play on iOS was Deathsmiles, because you had to make the character flip from left to right and that cause some problems, but for the rest? It worked perfectly! :eek:

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Like i said, the iOS versions are dramatically watered down, they're nowhere near as difficult as the real games. (Plus, you know, touchscreen control. Ew.)

Don't play Sine Mora, it is pretty much rubbish. It makes the mistake that most western shooters make with poor feedback in terms of how to dodge enemies. The bosses don't have patterns, and too many unforseeable one-shot kills.

I finished it and couldn't find enough in the combo system to be bothered to continue. It is no way near as good as Omega V that suffers from some of its problems but OV excels in some places and Sine Mora doesn't.

That's disappointing to hear.

Omega V... Omega Five? Why the comparison, how is it similar to Sine Mora?

I haven't thought about that game in a long time, that was an early XBLA release, i liked that game.

Edited by Sno

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As far I know, the games have an easier iOS version and the orignal arcade version, you can even buy them separately if you want to.

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I'm not normally a fan of shmups, but I've had Jamestown in regular rotation for a while now. I'd wager it's more because of excellent aesthetic and score than actual gameplay. But if you haven't played that, you should.

This is kind of crazy, this post just became visible to me. Must be some new anti-spam stuff on the board, hide posts from new-users until they're determined to be a real person, right?

Jamestown looks completely legit, just really awesome.

It is a game i should play, and have no real excuse for not playing.

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Yes, I'm new and apparently untrustworthy to this forum's security, so am having trouble posting in a timely manner.

But I'm glad Jamestown is now on your radar as it is excellent.

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I'm also not a bullet hell type of person, but Jamestown rocks the fucking house. Play it.

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I love Jamestown despite being horrible at it. I can't get a handle on any of the ships besides the basic beam ship, so I never touch anything else ever. I'm currently slogging my way through legendary difficulty in order to unlock the fourth stage (it's going to take me a while).

Jamestown is the first and only bullet-hell game I've ever played beyond one round. My relationship to shmups prior to Jamestown had been mostly as a spectator: an old ski lodge I used to go to every year when I was in middle/highschool had a table-style arcade machine with some shmup game (I have no idea which one, I never bothered to try to read the Japanese title), and I would watch one of a handful of kids utterly destroy each stage. They would let me have a round every so often so we could all have a laugh at how quickly I died.

It's depressing how little I interacted with local people my age when I lived in Japan, but the time I spent with that shmup game managed to break my English-speaker-centric tendencies. Now that I think of it, every meaningful interaction I ever had with local kids had to do with games (video or physical).

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The one thing about Jamestown has over the other bullet hell games is great learning curves.

It may seems annoying, but you can't see the real ending on the "normal" difficulty setting, you have the beat the game on this setting to unlock a harder mode and then again until you reach the highest difficulty and you can see the real ending. You actually learn to be better at these kind of games this way!

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Brad gave a perhaps unexpectedly positive opinion of Akai Katana in Giantbomb's quicklook for the game. He struggles with the densely layered mechanics of the game, but otherwise fares pretty well. (In my own reading, i've seen it said that Akai Katana is actually pretty accessible by the standards of a Cave game.)

Though he comments at one point that he was bummed out about the slowdown, something that is there by design. (For example, when Aksys localized Deathsmiles, they "fixed" a lot of the slowdown. Cave's response was to spend months trying to patch it back in.)

Additionally, today is ostensibly the release date for the game. If anybody is interested in the game, i would encourage tracking down a copy. The market for these kinds of games, the good ones at least, is such that copies may quickly become either very difficult to obtain or extremely expensive.

I am mostly a non-shmup/bullet hell type person, but rRootage is appealing to me in some way that others in the genre generally aren't and it is free and you should totally check it out if you haven't already.

I hadn't realized that this was a Kenta Cho game.

I don't really follow doujin stuff very closely at all, but that is a name i recognize.

But I'm glad Jamestown is now on your radar as it is excellent.

Oh, oh, i had heard of it. Just haven't played it. :getmecoat

When i eventually get around to pooling some money together for a new PC, it's a game on a growing list of things i mean to catch up on.

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Omega V... Omega Five? Why the comparison, how is it similar to Sine Mora?

I haven't thought about that game in a long time, that was an early XBLA release, i liked that game.

It is hard to describe but I think it is the way they have designed the hit boxes that both games feel quite claustrophobic and have the feel of developers who don't really know how to design bullet hell shooters. In contrast Omega Five (V) is an experience that improves with familiarity to its awkwardness, Sine Mora doesn't.

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So i've been playing Akai Katana for a few hours now, and perhaps it comes across as a forgone conclusion that i'd be way it, but i think this game is really something special.

Mechanically, it is a remarkably dense game, and the differences between the remix modes are probably more dramatic than i've ever seen in a shooter.

I'll go into it more if anybody wants to hear it, or has any questions. Otherwise i'd probably just be wasting breath.

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I have not been this into a 2d shooter since Ikaruga.

This game is awesome.

God, i wish it was getting more attention, but i know that is a totally unrealistic desire to have of such a niche genre.

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