Rob Zacny

Three Moves Ahead 165 - Beware of Falling Samurai

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PC Gamer staff writer Tom Senior and freelance writer Phill Cameron come to Rob's podcasting island, bringing with them rifles and steam-powered ironclads. Things swiftly turn violent as they discuss Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai, and some of the Total War series' longstanding contradictions. How does balance function in Fall of the Samurai, and how does the campaign structure let down the setting? Why does the AI behave as if it's not sure if it's in a game, or a history sim? How does Fall of the Samurai change the role of gunpowder weapons?

Listen here.

Rob's Fall of the Samurai Review

Phill's review

Tom's review

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Oh man, I had a beer with Phill two weeks ago!

As someone who wishes he could get into strategy games, but finds it goes way over his head all the time, this is the best I can add to this topic. Sorry ;(

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I never really ran into the end-of-the-game gang-up moment. If anything my allies were content to sit on Kyushu and Shikoku and let my Choshu domain do the entirety of the conquering for the emperor. Saga managed one to conquer one province next to Edo just as I was going to finish the game. It was a bit like they were saying "Hey thanks for slogging all the way across Japan for the emperor, but I'd really like the honor of taking Edo," but that was all the competition I ever got out of my allies.

There was an interesting diplomatic issue for a while where Satsuma and Saga fought to a stalemate on Kyushu for most of the game which gave the sense that there could be conflict between pro-Imperial forces, but after Satsuma conquered Kyushu (and the Saga fled to Shikoku!) they mostly sat on their respective islands. Satsuma sometimes moved their armies flirtatiously close to my railroads, but never actually used them. Saga seemed to behave a bit more reasonably by putting large stacks into one boat, charging that boat toward Edo, then pulling back when it seemed the Shogunate navy was coming anywhere close to their transport boat.

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Not quite done listening to the podcast, but I wanted to duck in while the going's hot and voice my agreement with the simulationist/narrativist tension you guys discerned in recent Total War games. I think Creative Assembly has gradually become aware of the power that atmosphere holds, in addition to the more obvious power of systems, but has not quite learned how to subordinate the latter to the former.

For instance, one of the developer diaries for Fall of the Samurai trumpeted how much they had to exaggerate the combat prowess of the samurai to make them a credible challenge to modern professional armies. Now, I've learned from practice that the sword still isn't going to triumph over the rifle in this game, save through superior numbers or tactics, but I think that reflects a gameplay philosophy in transition, rather than a failure of vision. If Creative Assembly were devoted to a simulationist sandbox, immediate modernization would be the only option. If they wanted the player to take part in a narrative, both options would be viable if asymmetrical. Instead, we get a mix of both, where samurai are unintuitively effective but ultimately obsolete. It's still an interesting dichotomy, but one reflected elsewhere in the game only inconsistently.

Myself, I wouldn't mind seeing Creative Assembly move even further towards a more narrativist approach, not least because Rome will probably be their next subject and I want to see it done right, but also because their games have never quite gotten the simulation aspect down pat, even at their nittiest and grittiest. Case in point, the AI still can't play Shogun 2 according to the same ruleset as the player, even with all the compromises in place. Daimyos respawn if killed, units get free experience upgrades, faction income is heavily subsidized, and truces are frequently called to dogpile the player. At its best, you're living the life of a warlord in feudal Japan. At its worst, you're watching the computer put on a puppet show for your benefit. If I have to deal with all that, I'd rather they design the show from the ground up to be worth watching.

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