Sean

The Idle Thumbs Lords Management Consortium - Dota 2, LoL, other Lords Managers unite

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I don't know if the meta has changed enough to stop it from happening (I doubt it), but when the first LoL tournaments started up, you'd get a really slow early laning phase for 7-10 minutes, and then a dragon fight, and with maybe two exceptions in forty games, whoever won lanes + dragon won the game, even if, because of the way League is made, the game went for another thirty minutes.

Yeah, that's another thing. It's much harder to make a comeback in LoL. Too, there's only one strategy. It's why the surrender feature is so necessary in LoL, but I don't lament its absence quite as much in Dota.

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I also was thinking and one problem that League inherently has that contradicts the comparison I was trying to make with fighting games, is the unlocking champions. What makes fighting games work is that sure they're incredibly unbalanced, but you dont have to pick bad characters. In League if you haven't unlocked the good champs and they aren't free, you do.

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I actually wish there was a surrender in Dota, sometimes you know 10min in that you will lose, but you have to wait another 15min for it to actually happen. More annoying when the other team can clearly push for the win but want to drag it out for no reason

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I actually wish there was a surrender in Dota, sometimes you know 10min in that you will lose, but you have to wait another 15min for it to actually happen. More annoying when the other team can clearly push for the win but want to drag it out for no reason

I agree, I don't really see why there is no surrender option in Dota 2. That said, I have surprised myself with comebacks sometimes, so I don't want it to be immediate either. As for the second part, I don't think with most teams they think "we can win this if we push now... but nah". Given how difficult I've found it to get random public players to actually go for it when we've been ahead and had a good opportunity to win/make significant gains, I suspect that is almost always the same failure of vision/coordination/sheer laziness on the other side.

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Surrender is stupid. It's fine for LoL because 40 minute games are decided in the first 10minutes, but that is not really the case in a dota2 game. If they improve their matchmaking algorithm then surrender is completely unnecessary.

HoN had a surrender function and it was really dumb. Some kid would die first and spend the next 20minutes voting surrender every minute. Surrender votes would pass if you lost one team fight, regardless of how huge your lead was. Just ugh.

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I'd be fine with a surrender option if it had to be completely unanimous.

As for the second part, I don't think with most teams they think "we can win this if we push now... but nah".

Actually that does happen, a lot. I've been guilty of it, myself. X: I try not to do it for more than one fountain dive, though, or I at least wait until all the barracks are down. But I've definitely been up against teams before that will literally avoid attacking the towers because they're stomping so hard they just want to camp the fountain for ten minutes.

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Surrender is stupid. It's fine for LoL because 40 minute games are decided in the first 10minutes, but that is not really the case in a dota2 game.

Well, that's not really true. I had quite a few comebacks after some people on my team wanted to throw the towel.. A good team fight in the late stages can do wonders. That's why I don't like the function and pretty much never use it.

I didn't realise how boring I found the lol meta to be until I saw the options in dota.

I'm interested in this, I don't know anything about the DotA 2 meta game, can anyone explain what options you have, or why it's not so important to follow the "most efficient" route? (whatever that may be)

It's one of my gripes with LoL, it really is rather stale at the moment and people are generally less willing to experiment and deviate from the meta.

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I'm interested in this, I don't know anything about the DotA 2 meta game, can anyone explain what options you have, or why it's not so important to follow the "most efficient" route? (whatever that may be)

It's one of my gripes with LoL, it really is rather stale at the moment and people are generally less willing to experiment and deviate from the meta.

There is no "most efficient" route. LoL is much like Starcraft 2, where you follow a list-of-things-you-must-do and the guy/guys who executes it best wins the game. Dota is balanced a lot better, and there are multiple strategies available.

Picking in dota is very important and is done like this: http://www.dota2wiki...aptain.27s_Mode

Some analysiz on 'current' hero picks: http://esfiworld.com...-list-june-2012

http://www.joindota....en/live/tobiwan NA'VI vs POTM paying right NOW on this stream. (NAVI is the "best" dota2 team currently). They have a new pick screen now, crazy. Both teams are pretty push and gank heavy.

e: Of course since I said that Na'vi got stomped into the ground.

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I'm no expert wahwah, but comps seem to be made far more on the fly in dota. See a broodmother? Got a sand king. See a over abundance of invisibility, get slardar. There is a myriad of counterpicks that i don't know, and many that arent obvious to me untill pointed out Once that has been taken into consideration, the last spot or two will be taken to fill out the team. Even playing pugs I've seen tri lanes, dual mid (I'm still not sure the exact function of that one over a side lane), double jungle, no jungle, roaming gankers, pushing strats, roaming strats...I usually play a nice safe support:p

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Dual mid was really popular for a very short while in dota1, who knows why. Harass the other guy out of lane, grab runes and go ganking while your carry safely farms is the idea I guess. It's not very good because it forces a solo lane without making up for it in extra xp and gold earned (a jungle hero is not in a lane but earns xp and gold anyway). Solo lanes have to play defensively. Also ranged heroes can solo mid vs dual mid because you are so close to the tower it is hard to get any kills in, resulting in more XP and gold for the enemy while crippling your own team.

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There is no "most efficient" route. LoL is much like Starcraft 2, where you follow a list-of-things-you-must-do and the guy/guys who executes it best wins the game. Dota is balanced a lot better, and there are multiple strategies available.

Picking in dota is very important and is done like this: http://www.dota2wiki...aptain.27s_Mode

Some analysiz on 'current' hero picks: http://esfiworld.com...-list-june-2012

http://www.joindota....en/live/tobiwan NA'VI vs POTM paying right NOW on this stream. (NAVI is the "best" dota2 team currently). They have a new pick screen now, crazy. Both teams are pretty push and gank heavy.

e: Of course since I said that Na'vi got stomped into the ground.

Ok I can tell you understand fuck all about StarCraft II. If you seriously think that SC II is only about execution then you need to go watch some GSL, There is not ONE build for any race, there are a lot, sure some are not great, but you have greedy, safe and aggressive builds.

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I watched many games, I even had a sub to that MLG stuff. 1v1 just got really uninteresting after a few months.

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Execution is much more important in SC2 then strategy. He has a point. And that's one of my favorite game series

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I have consumed an unwholesome amount of SC2 streaming, both GOM/MGL and players streaming themselves, and while I love watching it, you have to admit that it can be very flowchart at times. The execution within the flowchart matters a lot, how you micro, keeping your macro on time, but you see build X or unit composition Y, and unless you're maybe one of five or six completely SC2 Matrix'd players, you build Z and then execute to crush X.

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Execution is much more important in SC2 then strategy. He has a point. And that's one of my favorite game series

You seriously think that? Sure execution is important but take the current balance, then strategy is a lot more important than execution, particularly vs Zerg. The game is more about knowledge than BW was, where there definitely were optimal builds. Zerg at the moment don't need much execution to beat a much stronger player, simply because it is so hard to scout a zerg since the buff. SC II is a game about knowledge, reaction and action. Sure you could say that these are all execution, but then surely so is Dota, LoL, CS, Quake, and any other game that doesn't play itself for you (Hi Total War). AN MMM force really struggles against a decent HT Storm play, hence reaction, but you cannot react without knowledge.

I take particular issue with: "list-of-things-you-must-do" So take Terran, I guess you need to make a supply depot, barracks and SCVs, That's all you really need to do, I don't need to build one marine, I don't need a factory, I don't need a ghost academy, I don't need an expansion, I don't need an engineering bay. If I don't take one of these choices then I'll likely lose. Again it's not even the order which you perform tasks, I can Refinery, Rax or CC first. This makes it sound like SC II is a static game and that ever game is the same, there is only one build that is viable, which is straight up wrong.

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I'm thinking that losing a ton of matches in a row is matching me with really bad people, 18/3/20 as spectre now, 3 games in a row where I just destroy.

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I'd be fine with a surrender option if it had to be completely unanimous.

Same. It'd basically allow you to end the game when you are already going to anyways. There are plenty of games where the other team has such a large lead that the whole team agrees to just let them push in and win. There's also the times where the other team haas already won but won't take the ancient because they would rather spend 15 minutes killing you in fountain. In cases like this a concede function would be good.

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Is anyone here really good with treant protector? I like to use him but I can't ever seem to have a dominate late game with him. Seems like the usefulness of sap really becomes apparent once every gets tankier.

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He's just really good at keeping people topped off, other than his ult he really doesn't do a ton actively in a fight. More of a tanky support. Basically you do have to win early game otherwise he doesn't do much in my experience.

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His ult is a AoE 3 second disable? Pretty strong. Especially when you do it next to a tower when the enemy team is trying to push.

Three enemies are punching at your tower, you are there invisible, a friendly Lord teleports in and the enemy thinks "what a fool". Then you pop your ult and you kill all of them.

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Both times I've tried Naga I've had the unfortunate experience of perfectly setting up a fight, but then we have no team fight after that to take advantage. She's so worthless on the wrong team. ):

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Tried the solo last hitting challenge with lich, (pick safe lane and play for 10 minutes). Theoretical max is 71 last hits, I managed to get to 8:30 with 12 last hits and then I quit in disgust.

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Oh for sure his ult is great, it's just he's purely a setup the pins for the rest of the team kind of lord. He doesn't have the damage capabilities of the other initiators. He won't really rack up kills but is useful with the right team.

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Man, I have no idea how to get better at this game, I've had maybe 8 or so hours with it and I still get trounced on normal 5v5 bot matches.

Drow Ranger was recommended to me since I don't like to juggle too many active skills (I'm terrible at micro) and I like to stay far away. I like the way she plays, I just don't know how I can improve.

Any general thoughts or training tips people can offer?

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Play more than 8 hours before you give up on it. :P

Go ahead and play people, to start with. Normal bots are far better at coordination and stun layering than players you will face in the beginning (or possibly ever). Give us a couple match codes and we'll tell you what we can.

Basic tips would be;

Carry a TP at all times

H and S will stop your current command to allow you to last hit with more precision (Or just turn off autoattacking in the options, because people who H spam are the worst)

Place wards if no-one else well, or ask people to

Keep an eye on the map and call MIAs

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