GDC 2012

[vogon]

Sooo... where are all the announcements? Is there a special announcements thing at the end, or can they announce shit whenever?

they can just announce shit whenever. I think the announcements start in earnest on Wednesday when the expo floor opens.

[Forbin]

Yeah but it can also payoff too. I think in order to make it work, a developer has to be willing to spend quality, dedicated time making something as if it's the way it's going to be, but also not be committed to it just because all that time and effort was put in. It's basically all about having the opposite development mindset of Blizzard for World of Warcraft. Those guys walk on eggshells just because it's going to make the most-vocal people all fucking irate, and really, they shouldn't have to cater to those people.

Sure. It's also a bit weird the article mentioned 1-day retention. Which measures only the effect your changes have on new players, not old ones that would be pissed off by changes.

[Henroid]

Uh oh, bad shit happened at GDC.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/40061/GDC-Japanese-dev-mocked-your-games-suck

But when he asked what the panel thought of modern Japanese video games, Phil Fish (pictured) immediately replied “your games just suck” – a comment that sparked an audible reaction from the crowd, though some were cheering.

[Roderick]

Wow, what an ass-hat to say that to another developer. I'm the first to object to some of the games made in Japan, specifically JRPGs, but that's another thing completely from making moronic and uninformed generalisations about a whole nation's industry.

While we're on the subject of criticism, one line in that article jumped out at me.

The Japan games industry – which to many is the spiritual home of the modern games – has in recent years become the subject of criticisms both from overseas and domestically/

What kind of shitty, subjective reporting is that? 'Which to many is the spiritual home of [the] modern games', what does that mean? According to who? On what grounds? Why even include such a vague, sweeping statement in your piece?

[Henroid]

I was just now saying elsewhere on the net that I've been critical of Japan in the VG industry as of late, but I'm at least able to point to why I'm saying that (it's focused on the business decision end - like Konami not wanting to pursue Castlevania a lot because it's not a 'money maker,' Capcom's treatment of Mega Man as of late (and fans), etc). And I try to not make it like a random out of ass insult. "YOU GUYS SUCK" or whatever.

As for the "spiritual home" comment, I'm not sure what you're taking offense to. From the perspective of "Nintendo is in Japan" it makes sense I guess, maybe. That's not as big a problem as "ALL OF JAPAN'S GAMES SUCK."

[Jake]

Big GDC announcements won't happen until Wednesday when the expo, keynotes, and main conference actually start. Monday and Tuesday are all summits and extended sessions/workshops.

[Chris]

Big GDC announcements won't happen until Wednesday when the expo, keynotes, and main conference actually start. Monday and Tuesday are all summits and extended sessions/workshops.

No keynotes this year! No big keynotes anyway, only track-specific keynotes. Hopefully it results in fewer examples of using keynotes as press conferences.

[vogon]

I was just now saying elsewhere on the net that I've been critical of Japan in the VG industry as of late, but I'm at least able to point to why I'm saying that (it's focused on the business decision end - like Konami not wanting to pursue Castlevania a lot because it's not a 'money maker,' Capcom's treatment of Mega Man as of late (and fans), etc).

yeah. I also think that a lot of Japanese developers are making moves which work OK for the Japanese market and people who are way into their games, but not for the Western masses -- witness all of the crap that Capcom has gotten for their business practices around MvC3, Street Fighter IV, and Street Fighter X Tekken.

to some extent I think Japan's making the same games which it's always made, it's just that Western audiences aren't as reliant upon Japan for building their games any more.

[Henroid]

yeah. I also think that a lot of Japanese developers are making moves which work OK for the Japanese market and people who are way into their games, but not for the Western masses -- witness all of the crap that Capcom has gotten for their business practices around MvC3, Street Fighter IV, and Street Fighter X Tekken.

to some extent I think Japan's making the same games which it's always made, it's just that Western audiences aren't as reliant upon Japan for building their games any more.

That's exactly it. And it's not wrong necessarily, but man, it really does suck because we end up on missing out on things. Localization seems to have a growing negative stigma. But it could just be some odd hiccup.

[Roderick]

it's just that Western audiences aren't as reliant upon Japan for building their games any more.

Sorry to hammer on this, but this is part of what I meant just then. Where is this coming from? When have 'Western games' not been made, not been popular? It seems so strange to me to single out Japan as the mythical birthing place of [modern] games, to the point where it feels like we're trying to sweep Western game history under the rug. Why?

[vogon]

Sorry to hammer on this, but this is part of what I meant just then. Where is this coming from? When have 'Western games' not been made, not been popular? It seems so strange to me to single out Japan as the mythical birthing place of [modern] games, to the point where it feels like we're trying to sweep Western game history under the rug. Why?

they've always been made and they've always been popular, but nowadays it's almost possible to be someone who's fully conversant in video games and not play any Japanese-made games at all; in December 2011, the only Japanese games on the NPD top 10 were Mario Kart 7 and Super Mario 3D Land, and the year-long chart was all-Western: http://www.1up.com/news/modern-warfare-3-december-annual-11-npd-charts.

fifteen or twenty years ago, Nintendo and Sega were the only games in town, and you were eventually going to play some first-party games. that's not necessarily the case any more.

[Murdoc]

I always tend to just ignore GDC every year and then listen to the topics they upload on the net afterwards.

I just don't look towards GDC for game announcements. I'm more interested in the discussions about design,trends in the industry, and technological innovations; there always at least a few fascinating ones every year.

And not to get into some debate about the Japanese game industry, but the guy did have a point, it's just that he was completely out of turn and disrespectful. He might have a more intelligent and articulate conversation at a later date to clarify what he really meant.

I also sort of agree that a lot Japanese developers seem to be lost in the modern market... they're trying to appeal to much too both sides of the world and have lost a lot of what made them innovative and original back in the 90s.

With that said, I think the western market has some of the same issue and is leading the industry into a bloody disaster in the next few years... but I don't need to get into that doomsday discussion either, because between production methods, publishing, and business structures I'm having a hard time projecting anything but gloom.

Anyway, to go way off topic, I'll be at GDC next year as I'm moving to San Francisco on Monday! Just in time to completely miss the conference this year!

[Chris]

fifteen or twenty years ago, Nintendo and Sega were the only games in town, and you were eventually going to play some first-party games. that's not necessarily the case any more.

Unless you were a PC gamer! (Like me!)

[vogon]

Unless you were a PC gamer! (Like me!)

heck yeah, pc gamer bros. (I've owned an Xbox 360 for about... four years, and my gamer score is < 5,000.)

[Roderick]

I guess it makes slightly more sense to have a Japan-centric view if you were raised on console gaming, but that was certainly not all of gaming. Once you remember to include the PC, the statement that Japan is the birthing place (or even main supplier) of modern games is ludicrous.

That aside, ahhh, GDC, home of the power-drunk developer spouting incendiary quotes.

[Henroid]

I guess it makes slightly more sense to have a Japan-centric view if you were raised on console gaming, but that was certainly not all of gaming. Once you remember to include the PC, the statement that Japan is the birthing place (or even main supplier) of modern games is ludicrous.

That aside, ahhh, GDC, home of the power-drunk developer spouting incendiary quotes.

It can also be argued that Microsoft 'fathered' modern video gaming, with XBox Live and making console online play a huge thing. But it's not an argument I'm actually interested in having, nor is it a position I can really defend.

But yeah. That guy who mouthed off on Japan, this is the first time I've heard of his game (wow what a bad impression). You'd think someone working on his first game would be more humble. And I've seen people bring up like Cliffy B in comparison, and while I won't defend it necessarily, Cliffy B is at least established already and sorta paid his dues. Again, that doesn't make it okay, but the difference is the shock factor. In this case, it's some dude without a finished game mouthing off. Like what?

He's also not doing a good job in the aftermath. His twitter feed had a post that pretty much said, "Sorry but it's true, your games suck!" I don't think he's qualified the opinion yet either.

[TheLastBaron]

The guys who made Desktop Dungeons are at GDC and staying at my friends house (one of them is his cousin) So if I'm lucky I might be able to get some second hand scoops. In other news, I was going through some old GDC articles and found something written by my uncle in 1999 (WTF?) I knew he went to GDC every year and worked on games, but I never knew he actually gave a talk. It also makes me sad that GDC couldn't still be in San Jose as I go to San Jose State University, which is right next to the convention center.

[TheLastBaron]

oh here's the article, I forgot to link it and when I try to edit my post it just stalls, so sorry for a double post.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131802/glory_and_shame_powerful_.php

[Lu]

Your last name is actually Baron... Cool!

I don't think anyone here cares about double posts

[Twig]

I was at the Indie Game: The Movie showing (which was so fucking rad, by the way), and the subsequent panel when Phil Fish said that thing.

Oh, man, was it hilarious, and also horrible. That poor Japanese man walked away looking so dejected. I honestly don't think Phil meant to come off as an asshole like he did, but he clearly has some frustrations there and went full-bore brutal, rather than politely critical. He grew up same as (most of) the rest of us, with Japanese games, and I hold similar frustrations with Japanese developers' unwillingness to change. I've similarly blown up on this topic when arguing among friends. Just not to ab Japanese developer's face!

Luckily, Jonathan Blow softened the... blow, by being legitimately polite and trying to offer some constructive criticism beyond Fish's "get with the times, you old Japanese people".

Not that I'm making excuses for Fish. Dick move, it was. But I do believe he was just being... I don't know. American? (I'm aware he's Canadian.) Some people are just brutally straight-forward when it comes to sharing their opinions. He... he did apologize, though. Sort of.

I will also say that he's not ignorant about the industry at all. Just lets his emotions get to him more than he should.

[Chris]

The guys who made Desktop Dungeons are at GDC and staying at my friends house (one of them is his cousin) So if I'm lucky I might be able to get some second hand scoops. In other news, I was going through some old GDC articles and found something written by my uncle in 1999 (WTF?) I knew he went to GDC every year and worked on games, but I never knew he actually gave a talk. It also makes me sad that GDC couldn't still be in San Jose as I go to San Jose State University, which is right next to the convention center.

Your dad worked for some cool dudes, according to his Gamasutra bio.

[TheLastBaron]

Your dad worked for some cool dudes, according to his Gamasutra bio.

He worked a lot of places, the only one I knew of growing up was Humongous Entertainment, who made educational adventure games for kids, as well as the Backyard sports games. Playing Freddie Fish and Put-Put games in the early 90's when I was like 4 or 5 is probably part of what made me like games, and especially adventure games, so much. He ended up going to Microsoft and for and was put in charge of developing Xbox Online (this is well before Xbox Live came to exist), but from what I understand it was to open ended of a mission statement for him and he obviously ended up failing to make it. Now he is unemployed and lives in a trailer in my other Uncle's yard and play's Ultima Online all day every day. From what I hear from my dad he's also crazy now.

[syntheticgerbil]

Unless you were a PC gamer! (Like me!)

Yeah, primarily western games were on PCs in the 80s and 90s, but I feel like I had a healthy dose of everything growing up. I don't feel like there was ever some major Japan vs. western world thing until recently, except possibly in RPG differences.

Yeah I don't know, it's kind of xenophobic and disappointing for the Fez guy to make the statement, but I guess it's ultimately his opinion. But personally, I think this thing where Japanese games are majorly thought of as dinosaurs in terms of design and western games are at the forefront of innovation and ideas is just garbage. For both parts of the world, I'm sure just as many useless and bad games exist in terms of percentage. Sure Japanese games have a different feel and design philosophy, just as German games or UK games do, etc. It's just the result of region and culture, no need to act like it's all bad. It also ends up a matter of preference, some people no doubt prefer one style over the other.

Fez should just come out already anyway and Phil can get positive publicity.

I don't think anyone here cares about double posts

It bugs the hell outta me though. But what can one person do?

Luckily, Jonathan Blow softened the... blow...

:tup:

Edited March 7, 2012 by syntheticgerbil

[Sno]

Sorry to hammer on this, but this is part of what I meant just then. Where is this coming from? When have 'Western games' not been made, not been popular? It seems so strange to me to single out Japan as the mythical birthing place of [modern] games, to the point where it feels like we're trying to sweep Western game history under the rug. Why?

I think it's a perception from the late 80's and early 90's when the most visible western games were the western games being developed on the consoles, games that were frequently kind of shit.

(I think this can lead into an argument that PC games essentially "won", with all of the big western devs now having been small, struggling PC devs in the 90's.)

I've read pieces that tried to pin Japan's xenophobia towards western games and western game design on them not really having a similar PC culture in the 90's, and therefore only being exposed only to bad western console games.

[Hermie]

He worked a lot of places, the only one I knew of growing up was Humongous Entertainment, who made educational adventure games for kids, as well as the Backyard sports games. Playing Freddie Fish and Put-Put games in the early 90's when I was like 4 or 5 is probably part of what made me like games, and especially adventure games, so much. He ended up going to Microsoft and for and was put in charge of developing Xbox Online (this is well before Xbox Live came to exist), but from what I understand it was to open ended of a mission statement for him and he obviously ended up failing to make it. Now he is unemployed and lives in a trailer in my other Uncle's yard and play's Ultima Online all day every day. From what I hear from my dad he's also crazy now.

This sounds like an amazing interview waiting to happen.