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I thought you hated the Game of Thrones mod?

 

I do! It removes everything that I find interesting from the medieval setting and replaces it with po-faced fantasy stuff. But I'm sane enough to see why it works for so many other people (mainly, replacing obscure real-life history with a simpler and better-known fantasy universe) and made the base game so popular.

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I just started a game using the Shattered World Mod, where only counts exist. I'm really excited to see what kingdoms and empires form. I started in Navarra because its one of the easiest kingdoms to form and I like playing as Basques to get absolute congic succession. I Will probably post a screenshot when the map has stabilized a bit, right now its a mad scramble to see who can grow the fastest. Its kind of fun just to watch the AI get really aggressive. I might set up another game to run while I'm at work, let the AI play by itself and see what world they make.  

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I've gotten into the maybe dumb habit of playing this game while drunk, but usually only for a generation or so. Then when I return sober to pick up the pieces everything is all "No, no, no! Who did this? My vassals are outraged! My domain is sundered! The Republic is ruined! What a fool my father was!"

 

Also, the Shattered World Mod always really interested me! I hope you'll post your thoughts on it once you've played it!

Edit: Oops, well, I mean, played it a little more or something. I'm just really curious to hear more of your thoughts on it and also maybe a map!

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I need to look into which religion has the least problems with heritic uprisings. I tried, but due to the fractured nature of the map, Catholicism quickly drops to zero authority. I was spending way to much time putting down religious uprisings. I didn't even play that long, can't imagine what it would be like after more time. Here is the religious makeup of my game before i quit.

 

A_203770_screenshots_2015-03-29_00001_zp

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Interesting! Did you start in the Old Gods start point?

 

I had a similar thing happen to me in a game I played after the Old Gods expansion came out (I think). I'm pretty sure it was between patches so they were working the kinks out of Old Gods. The Norse religion reformed and then all of its followers united under basically one empire. In the process of forming their empire and picking apart Europe, they fought a bunch of little holy wars against outlying Catholic dukes and counts who had escaped the Karlings. Every time they won, I'm pretty sure they took 5% of Catholicism's moral authority. Within the span of two generations, that moral authority was so low that the entire Catholic religion had broken into heresies and almost vanished.

 

It was a fun game and an interesting narrative - it was cool to watch my rulers' religion fade away and picture them as the last stubborn believers in a world that had moved on...but it also felt like a failing of the game mechanics. What sucked about it was that once those holy wars started it felt like there was no escaping a total degeneration of moral authority. The Karlings were too stupid to unite against the Norse, so every war ended up a loss. Plus, there were a few Great Holy Wars thrown in.

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing your map! Sorry to hear it didn't work out so well!

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Interesting! Did you start in the Old Gods start point?

 

I had a similar thing happen to me in a game I played after the Old Gods expansion came out (I think). I'm pretty sure it was between patches so they were working the kinks out of Old Gods. The Norse religion reformed and then all of its followers united under basically one empire. In the process of forming their empire and picking apart Europe, they fought a bunch of little holy wars against outlying Catholic dukes and counts who had escaped the Karlings. Every time they won, I'm pretty sure they took 5% of Catholicism's moral authority. Within the span of two generations, that moral authority was so low that the entire Catholic religion had broken into heresies and almost vanished.

 

It was a fun game and an interesting narrative - it was cool to watch my rulers' religion fade away and picture them as the last stubborn believers in a world that had moved on...but it also felt like a failing of the game mechanics. What sucked about it was that once those holy wars started it felt like there was no escaping a total degeneration of moral authority. The Karlings were too stupid to unite against the Norse, so every war ended up a loss. Plus, there were a few Great Holy Wars thrown in.

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing your map! Sorry to hear it didn't work out so well!

 

I did the Charlemagne start actually. I am going to try Shattered World again as either a pagan or hindu to avoid heresy. 

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New Expansion announced, I'm excited to sack all the things: 

 

 
"The Horse Lords are coming to Crusader Kings II.
 
The nomadic invasions of the Mongol and Turkic steppe tribes transformed the history of Europe, the Near East and much of Asia. Genghiz Khan built the largest contiguous land empire the world has ever seen. And now Paradox Development Studios brings you the clan politics, the mighty hordes and the migratory push for new lands that will bring this exciting and vibrant culture to life.
 
With an expanded map, revised interface and new rules for successions and trade, Horse Lordswill immerse you in a world very different from the fixed settlements of Europe and challenge you to become the Great Khan – the Ruler of the Sky.
 
Features in the coming Horse Lords expansion include:
 
Nomadic rule: Distinct from the tribal governments already in game, nomads need lots of space and resist the trappings of settlement
Clan politics: Rule a clan within a nomadic tribe, split clans that get too large, fight for dominance, and proclaim feuds and blood oaths
Muster Hordes: Raise vast armies of horsemen and archers, mobilizing your entire population to ride forth and conquer
Silk Road: This rich trade network can bring great wealth to whomever controls the cities along the route – but it’s especially ripe for pillaging.
Larger Map: The Central Asian plains have been expanded
Tributaries: New diplomatic relationship for nomad states forces defeated enemies to keep the Khan’s coffers filled.
Forts: build temporary fortifications to hold a province under your sway for just long enough for you to finish the war.
 
Horse Lords is the eighth major expansion to Crusader Kings II and will be coming to major digital retailers very soon. In the meantime, prepare to meet the Great Khan on the field of battle; your stone walls won’t help you."

 

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/announcing-crusader-kings-ii-horse-lords.859192/

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looks cool. Although I'm still way behind in terms of keeping up with the DLC. Nearly finished my Legacy of Rome-centric playthrough (started as a duke in the Bzaytine Empire, managed to become Despot of Serbia and Leon, now slowly losing everything to muslims with only a few years left on the clock.

 

Two questions:

 

- any tips for how to do anything against the Muslims? Their empire is huge and my armies are hugely outnumbered. Although, when I've tried playing as a Muslim in southern spain, I find it really hard to make headway as the Catholics all team up against my efforts to expand.

 

- any general interface/mechanic "tip-of-the-day" tips? I'm sure there are better ways to play the game, more useful map modes, etc.

 

Thanks

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looks cool. Although I'm still way behind in terms of keeping up with the DLC. Nearly finished my Legacy of Rome-centric playthrough (started as a duke in the Bzaytine Empire, managed to become Despot of Serbia and Leon, now slowly losing everything to muslims with only a few years left on the clock.

 

Two questions:

 

- any tips for how to do anything against the Muslims? Their empire is huge and my armies are hugely outnumbered. Although, when I've tried playing as a Muslim in southern spain, I find it really hard to make headway as the Catholics all team up against my efforts to expand.

 

- any general interface/mechanic "tip-of-the-day" tips? I'm sure there are better ways to play the game, more useful map modes, etc.

 

Thanks

 

1) when fighting a large empire as a small state your options are minimal. Are you still a vassal of the Byzantines? If yes than I recommend trying to become independent and then offer fealty to either the muslim empire or the HRE. If you can't beat em, join em. Spain is a hard spot to play as a Muslim since you have to fight the tides of history, I suggest trying Egypt or North Africa.

 

2) I have over 800 hours in game and am still learning things. I don't think there is a tip of the day tool, I do check out the forums occasionally, especially the quick answers thread for ideas/tips/tricks, https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/crusader-kings-ii-quick-answers.586872/page-942

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1) when fighting a large empire as a small state your options are minimal. Are you still a vassal of the Byzantines? If yes than I recommend trying to become independent and then offer fealty to either the muslim empire or the HRE. If you can't beat em, join em. Spain is a hard spot to play as a Muslim since you have to fight the tides of history, I suggest trying Egypt or North Africa.

 

2) I have over 800 hours in game and am still learning things. I don't think there is a tip of the day tool, I do check out the forums occasionally, especially the quick answers thread for ideas/tips/tricks, https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/crusader-kings-ii-quick-answers.586872/page-942

 

I became independent after a few generations. But as an independent Serbia, I was surrounded by big empires on all sides and there didn't seem to be many options apart from watching the Seljuk conquer the remains of the Byzantium Empire.

 

I'll take a look at the forum. It would be nice to find out some useful tips/shortcuts.

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I have a friend who's been playing a lot of CK2 lately, and I'm considering buying the $30 in DLC I missed and jumping back in. I still remember some of the bruises I got from EU4 though, so I dunno.

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Whelp I know what event chain I will be triggering tonight: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/from-holy-kingdom-to-unholy-nightmare-why-this-is-the-best-dlc-yet.736028/

"Update on Demon Queen. 

 
Saw a blood red comet, started speaking in tongues and is now casually passing the time by torturing people in her dungeon, had a son and daughter in the meantime who hate her. Currently torturing this thirteen year old, maimed her, put her in the oubilete, then satan told me to go talk to her in the dungeon, she begged for mercy so I tortured her, satan lol'd "

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Yeah, I bought the DLC during the Steam sale, but I'm currently playing EU4 multiplayer so it'll have to wait for a bit.

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How does someone get into this game? I tried, and I found myself crippled by the compulsion to play optimally, trying to use all the systems, which resulted in time passing at a rate of about one in-game day per real-life day. The eugenics simulator alone has enough depth (and time wasted due to sub-optimal UI) that I could imagine playing it as a full game, not just one of many systems to manage. How do you decide where to engage and where to ignore systems to your detriment?

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Some form of roleplaying might be helpful.  I've not entirely mastered this myself - what runs I've played have mostly degenerated into aggressive save-scumming - but I do play for an interesting narrative rather than just to win on the scale the game advertises (ie, on the strength of your entire dynasty rather than your actual characters).

I have 2x or 3x speed on more or less all the time: elaborate plans get sidelined and forgotten as more pressing matters crop up, and I am always comfortably engaged with things to do.  Other things just never seem worth the effort as a matter of balancing: technology, military, and economics never really seem to bear any fruit (I think it takes hundreds of years before building towns makes a profit?!), and even intrigue seemed nerfed beyond possible use the last time I played.  Anything dynastic I ignore.  That leaves court politics, laws, and local foreign politics/expansion, besides the occasional pet project (making my successor a different culture, etc).

Come to think of it a lot of my actual enjoyment of the game was in passively watching the stories of other kingdoms altogether while nothing at all happened in mine (I wonder what the Welsh queens of Andalusia are up to...).  It's a lot like I play Dwarf Fortress: occasionally coming off my perch to idly create something, but mostly just fascinated by the local plant life.

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About to start off a new game of this, but I was wondering: Has anybody tried the Game of Thrones mod? Is it worth it?

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About to start off a new game of this, but I was wondering: Has anybody tried the Game of Thrones mod? Is it worth it?

Its fun, there are some rather extensive event chains that can be used to simulate or diverge from the books. There seem to be some bugs with the white walkers never really being defeat-able but I might just be doing it wrong. I want to mess around with it more, perhaps crush Robert's Rebellion.

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I'm going to say that this is because I started playing again.

 

It's exciting though! And I agree: I'm not interested at all in the "expand the map" DLC, but deepening the council and diplomacy mechanics seems awesome.

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New expansion announced! I am really glad the appear to be adding depth to the game as opposed to more map expansion.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/01/07/crusader-kings-ii-conclave-expansion-announced/

I'm going to say that this is because I started playing again.

 

It's exciting though! And I agree: I'm not interested at all in the "expand the map" DLC, but deepening the council and diplomacy mechanics seems awesome.

 

I'm mostly excited, but I'm specifically quite disappointed that Paradox has chosen to discourage snowball behavior by porting the very contentious Aggressive Expansion, Coalition, and Non-Aggression Pact mechanics over from EU4 rather than expanding preexisting systems of internal instability and diminishing returns. I understand that it's difficult to design within the bounds of a system that only recognizes agnatic and affinal relations as effective diplomatic ties, but the answer's not to throw it all away; instead, weaken large realms in the process of snowballing by giving vassals more options for passive and active support of and resistance to their immediate liege and the ability to interact with their ultimate liege, preferably tied into the dramatically underused trait system. Just one example: vassals have an option (probably expressed via a checkbox) to contribute the maximum possible, the minimum required, or none of their levies to their liege's wars, with Patient AI vassals refusing all contributions regardless of their opinion and Wrathful AI vassals always giving the maximum. More like this, please! Add some more texture and depth via mechanics that are already in the game, rather than diluting the power and intrigue of marriage alliances by adding ahistorical systems from another game.

 

Honestly, I really wish that Paradox would quit with their coyness about all being "amateur historians" and hire themselves a professional who can act as a consultant on their design decisions. I wouldn't expect it to have that much effect on the outcome, but at least there would be a voice cutting against the result of intra-office multiplayer and Wikipedia "research." Apart from crusades and counter-crusading activity, there is literally no example from 955 to 1529 that would fits a "coalition" as described in the CK2 developer diaries on their forums. Bouvines in 1214? Marriage alliance between the Welfs, the Plantagenets, and Flanders. Lombard League in 1167? Revolt against the Holy Roman Emperor. Varna in 1444? Crusade. Between the revolt system, procedural holy wars, and the dynastic mechanics, there's no historical situation that qualifies, but... ugh, I don't know. Parents, don't let your sons and daughters grow up to balance their grand strategy games by playing with their fellow devs.

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Interesting post. On a similar (but more less well informed and sophisticated) note, one of the issues that has always bothered me is just how easy it is to marry your ruler off to your pick of eligible women. Was medieval Europe really so international in its family ties? I know there will be plenty of examples from history, but I'm pretty sure that not every king of Scotland was married to the top lady from continental Europe? It just seems a little odd how this is implemented. Should it really be that easy to sort out a marriage alliance with the ruling family of the Holy Roman or Byzantium Empires?

 

I would be interested in people's thoughts (both those who know how to play the game well, and those who know history well). 

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Interesting post. On a similar (but more less well informed and sophisticated) note, one of the issues that has always bothered me is just how easy it is to marry your ruler off to your pick of eligible women. Was medieval Europe really so international in its family ties? I know there will be plenty of examples from history, but I'm pretty sure that not every king of Scotland was married to the top lady from continental Europe? It just seems a little odd how this is implemented. Should it really be that easy to sort out a marriage alliance with the ruling family of the Holy Roman or Byzantium Empires?

 

I would be interested in people's thoughts (both those who know how to play the game well, and those who know history well). 

 

Henry the First had a daughter marry the Holy Roman Emperor and another Daughter marry the King of Scotland.

 

Henry the Eighth was originally married to the Aunt of the Holy Roman Emperor, who was previously married to Henry's older brother. His first Daughter married the King of Naples and Sicily. His sister was married to the King of Scotland. Another Sister was married to the King of France.

 

Maria Theresa was Married to the Holy Roman Emperor. her children include eight Archduchesses, two Holy Roman Emperors, two Dukes, two Archdukes, a Queen of Naples and Sicily and Marie Antoinette the Queen of France.

These are just some good examples. It may not have been common, but it did happen.

Edit: Turns out wikipedia has a page on this topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_intermarriage#Europe

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Monarchs sometimes went to great lengths to prevent this. On her marriage to Louis XIV of FranceMaria Theresa, daughter of Philip IV of Spain, was forced to renounce her claim to the Spanish throne. When monarchs or heirs apparent wed other monarchs or heirs, special agreements, sometimes in the form of treaties, were negotiated to determine inheritance rights. The marriage contract of Philip II of Spain and Mary I of England, for example, stipulated that the maternal possessions, as well as Burgundy and the Low Countries, were to pass to any future children of the couple, whereas the remaining paternal possessions (including Spain, Naples, Sicily, Milan) would first of all go to Philip's son Don Carlos, from his previous marriage to Maria Manuela of Portugal. If Carlos were to die without any descendants, only then would they pass to the children of his second marriage. On the other hand, the Franco-Scottish treaty that arranged the 1558 marriage of Mary, Queen of Scots and Francis, the son and heir of Henry II of France, had it that if the queen died without descendants, Scotland would fall to the throne of France.

 

This would be an amazing addition to the game. Forget just worrying about matrilineal marriage. All your marriage machinations can fall apart if a savvy parent slips in a clause that their child has lost their claims, and then you could flip that around by taking out any other heirs to the throne.

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These are just some good examples. It may not have been common, but it did happen.

 

 

Oh, I know that it DID happen. But I was under the impression that it wasn't the norm. Or as easy as it is in the game. The AI always feels incredibly passive in agreeing to marriages. I am guessing that there was a fair bit of diplomacy and various factors playing into the historical examples you cite.

 

It just feels weird that a lowly Irish count can court European royalty. Maybe an easy way of tackling this would be to more closely align marriage decision making to your prestige, and connections between the courts? So, sure, your humble Irish count and still still marry into germanic royalty, but he'll have to have a hell of a lot of prestige and great reputation?

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