Salka

Fund Tim Schafer's next game YOURSELF!

Recommended Posts

I like the way you talk. You can liquidate me with the machine gun of love any time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The answer is: NOTHING!

Well, also probably faith in the developer's ability to deliver. But yeah.

This is pretty cool. I wish people were this passionate about less-famous people, but what're you gonna do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is really awesome about this is that they have no incentive to spend ANY of that money on advertizing. :tup::tup::tup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is really awesome about this is that they have no incentive to spend ANY of that money on advertizing. :tup::tup::tup:

:tup::tup: that

I was boycotting amazon payments, but what the hell, I wasn't going to keep that up forever. I'll likely back it on a later date cause I'm using 40-day credit cards and current one probably expires before the payday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now it seems that time might be a bigger issue than money. I don't know how long it usually takes to finish a game of this scope (what scope?), but October 2012 seems quite soon. And now that reaching at least, what, 4 times the original goal seems entirely plausible, I hope the scope and the schedule of the game will be rethought.

I suspect they've already done some work for this and it's not a "we got funded..GO!" type situation. Although that's just pure speculation based on "what the hell else has Ron Gilbert been working on since he went over there?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After all of the legal shit they went through with Brütal Legend and Trenched, I've been so pleased to see this :tup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I suspect they've already done some work for this and it's not a "we got funded..GO!" type situation. Although that's just pure speculation based on "what the hell else has Ron Gilbert been working on since he went over there?"

Gilbert is working on a game wholly separate from the Double Fine Adventure I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gilbert is working on a game wholly separate from the Double Fine Adventure I think.

Rumor has it it's a Shivah reboot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two thoughts:

1. We've anticipated that as the gamer generation grew up, wealthy patrons would emerge to fund these "impossible" titles. It's now quite obvious that the Internet can sidestep the need for one wealthy patron. Crowd sourcing means that a larger group of people, all paying (at worst) a bit over their comfort zone can make the impossible happen. That's awesome.

2. For all the talk of the publishing model being upended there is, of course, the fact that games are far more expensive than the proposed $400k.

But here's another problem: what's in it for us? Look, I'm more than happy to fund Double Fine's game, but as Kickstarters get increasingly ambitious, someone will eventually ask "if we're putting down so much money, surely we should get a cut in return?" I think that's an entirely reasonable request.

A crowd sourced publishing scheme will be the next step in funding projects that run into the millions of dollars. And I think it's a good thing, as long as the artists can maintain creative control over their projects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had this impression that modern games had marketing budgets many times the size of the actual development budget. Is this false, even preposterous?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had this impression that modern games had marketing budgets many times the size of the actual development budget. Is this false, even preposterous?

Don't know, but some software companies might devote 30% or so to marketing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But here's another problem: what's in it for us? Look, I'm more than happy to fund Double Fine's game, but as Kickstarters get increasingly ambitious, someone will eventually ask "if we're putting down so much money, surely we should get a cut in return?" I think that's an entirely reasonable request.

That's a good question, and it probably has legal implications as well, such as about taxation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But here's another problem: what's in it for us? Look, I'm more than happy to fund Double Fine's game, but as Kickstarters get increasingly ambitious, someone will eventually ask "if we're putting down so much money, surely we should get a cut in return?" I think that's an entirely reasonable request.

Kickstarter works the way funding art works. They use words like "backing" and "donating" for a reason. You're not investing.

Investing is a pretty separate thing from Kickstarter. I'm sure at some point someone will do that but I don't think it will ever be Kickstarter. If you're expecting something financial in return, that COMPLETELY changes the dynamic between the people giving the money and the creators the money is going to. With the Kickstarter model it's all about giving people money to realize their vision or personal project on their own terms -- there is no attitude of "you work for me," but that is pretty much entirely the expectation in an investor situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kickstarter works the way funding art works. They use words like "backing" and "donating" for a reason. You're not investing.

Yeah, I think it would be interesting to change the model a bit, though. What if, say, an album went on to sell millions after being funded by $15 donations (basically pre-orders)? They could give the initial backers their $15 back, so the backers got the album for free. If the album tanked, the backers wouldn't get any money back, but the album still got made so they're happy. It would encourage more people to get on board early for projects they believe in. (And it would be clear in the terms that the backers have no creative control.)

But I don't know if there's a time limit on Kickstarter. Anyone know?

It says on the page -- 33 days left.

Someone just pointed out that Kickstarter actually takes a 5% cut,

Amazon also takes 3-5%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder whether the game being crowd-funded has any implications for how it will be pirated. That issue a long way off, but I somehow think that all the people who back the game will be more opposed to people in their environment not buying it, will feel entitled to further its success. And then it wouldn't be a faceless company that gets affected by piracy, but The People.

Okay, wishful thinking, but maybe it makes a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt it will have any effect. Even gratis software is "pirated".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amazon also takes 3-5%.

People should expect to lose 10% to fees between Kickstarter and Amazon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kickstarter works the way funding art works. They use words like "backing" and "donating" for a reason. You're not investing.

Oh, totally. I just wonder what the (admittedly fuzzy) upper limit on donating is. We've already seen Venus Patrol funded for $100k, and Double Fine Adventure game will hit *at least* a million dollars. That's an order of magnitude! Can we kickstart a ten million dollar game?

If not, I'm curious if a donation/investment hybrid model would help. I totally agree that it "COMPLETELY changes the dynamic", but maybe it would be an opportunity to rethink the artist/investor model. What if we could maintain the Kickstarter mentality ("follow your vision", etc), but with the added monetary benefits if the artist ends up turning a massive profit?

Now that I think about it, it would be similar to a crowd sourced version of the Indie Fund.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
People should expect to lose 10% to fees between Kickstarter and Amazon.

Does anyone know whether the 'Pledged' figure shown on their Kickstarter page is before or after this 10% loss?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It says on the page -- 33 days left.

Crap, my browser window is all narrow in width right now so I didn't focus too much on that side of the page outside of the number of monies. Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone know whether the 'Pledged' figure shown on their Kickstarter page is before or after this 10% loss?

According to their FAQ:

What fees does Kickstarter charge?

If a project is successfully funded, Kickstarter will apply a 5% fee to the funds raised. If funding isn't successful, there are no charges.

So I'm guessing that the figure is pre-KS, because they only take their money if the project goes ahead.

Also from their FAQ:

Does Amazon charge any fees?

Yes. When a project is successful, Amazon will apply credit card processing fees, which work out to roughly 3-5%. For details on how the fee is calculated, please view the Amazon Payments fee details.

In the case of this particular Kickstart, however, Amazon will only be charging 1.9% + $0.30 per transaction, because of the "volume discount". That's absolutely standard credit card processing fees that goes on behind the scenes every time you use your card, though. It's not Amazon being greedy or anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Americans, as individuals and businesses, generally tend to assume everything is a manufactured good. Truly creative endeavors are really difficult to make work in a market economy, and especially when there are investors to take care of. The fact that the scarcity is artificial in the digital context (creating new instance of a game to sell is a trivial venture) is what makes entrenched content creators so reactionary and fascist in fighting against new technologies that poke holes in this artifice. A different model is needed. Something less antagonistic to the creative process.

At this point it totally doesn't matter if Double Fine releases the entire source to their game when they're done. The actual bits are no longer a scary black hole of investment which needs to be very carefully leveraged so as to not lose someone's money. Now they become an artifact of a creative process that is completely paid for.

People who aggressively threw their money*at Double Fine didn't pay for a product. They paid for a lot more. They got a kick out of the very opportunity to support something they believed in and wanted to support. All of us here, we've been whining about adventure games for TEN PLUS FUCKING YEARS! Finally we get to rub current marketplace realities and underlying economic conditions in the face of the managers manning the gates of our culture—and do so in a real, tangible way!

I didn't really realize the full potential of this kind of patronage until I felt myself wondering if I wanted to give Double Fine $100 or $250. I would never actually pay that much money for a game. Let alone a sight unseen game! I haven't even purchased any of the recent games they've made because all I have is a bunch of ancient PCs, a couple of Macs and a PS2—but I would've totally given them a similar sum of money for making those games, even probably the ones I don't care to play. But BECAUSE these things are presented as manufactured goods rather than opportunities to support something I believe in, I didn't buy them, since I reasoned I didn't need them and couldn't use them.

The questions that cynics ask of pay-what-you-like funding models assume all customers approach these things with cold rational calculation—but when the object of the customer's support is something that he or she is very passionate about—the game fucking changes. It is not the same fucking game goddamnit.

Anyway, I bet Schafer is overjoyed that he doesn't have to be the resident publisher-ass-kisser for once and gets to make a game.

:gaming::buyme:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now