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Salka

Narcissist PUAs

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I was recently discussing Unilad with Nachimir. If you haven't heard about it, to fill you in: some guys who run a website instructing other University guys how best to get laid, wrote an article stating that most girls are sluts and whores, and if getting her drunk doesn't make her spread her legs, 85% of rapes go unreported anyway.

I had a quick look through the site before it was taken down, and the content was horrific, unfunny and hugely misogynistic. But, it was familiar to me.

There are very popular blogs out there such as RooshV and Danger & Play, which promote exactly the same attitude towards women, and sadly, have a lot of followers. They are so far removed from the average guy that I don't feel anger when reading their posts; I'm just amazed. They fit the description of a narcissist perfectly; in fact, RooshV even seemed to embrace the fact he is a narcissist, he even posted his test results.

The followers are similarly amazing. Check out this angry and incoherent post about why women are not smarter than men, or comments like these. I found a thread yesterday where one guy was complaining that he thought his girlfriend was cheating on him because she'd changed the hand her promise ring was on, but he needed to stay with her because he had no job at the moment and she was his only income. I think it was the first post that someone replied "she's probably looking for someone who earns more than you, typical fucking woman just hanging on to men for the cash". They all agreed, and advised him to stay with her for the money until he got a job and moved on comfortably, with no ability to see how hypocritical they were being! There was another thread in which someone claimed confidently that if I women was wearing revealing clothing, it was a sure sign she wanted you to approach her, whether she knew it or not.

Weirdly, I find reading this stuff strangely soothing. My dad was a classic narcissist and held many of the same views and beliefs as these guys. He suckered on to my mum for financial support, and towards the end of their relationship he would talk endlessly about how 'horrible and masculine' UK and Irish women had become (ie., independent and generally no longer bothered to put up with people like my dad). He wanted to move to China because women there 'knew how to treat a man'. He was violent, liked to sexually degrade women, and was the only person I have ever known who could look at himself in a mirror and say out loud to whoever was listening: "fuck ME, I'm goodlooking."

I never knew what to make of it until finding this community of men who are all exactly like clones of him. It makes sense now; in a way, reading these comments is like getting an insight into my narcissistic father. It's like getting answers to questions I've wanted to ask for years. It also is a bit of a tragic comedy. These are all men who love themselves and their egos far too much, so much that they are losing touch with reality. My dad got worse as the years wore on, and they will too. They hide behind the internet, deleting comments from people who damage their ego, creating a safe little play-area in which they can air their views to others just like them. I'm pretty sure from the scenarios they describe, that most of them make up a great deal of their sexual encounters, or at least embellish the details hugely.

It's both sad, and hilarious, that these guys whose egos are so fragile are themselves the desperate sluts that they paint women as being, but their ability to delude themselves is so great that they can't, and probably won't ever see it.

I suggest flicking through those sites, they're a healthy mixture of horrifying and hilarious.

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I find this sort of thing grimly fascinating, but frustrating and depressing if I expose myself to it too much. At first I enjoy seeing the idiotic things people think, but after a while I just wish they'd see some sense.

I'm pretty disturbed to imagine how you could have discovered your dad was into sexually degrading women, though, and the effect that would have had on you. I can only hope I'm misreading that, because it sounds extremely messed up.

Edited by JamesM

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It wasn't as horrific as you might be thinking, maybe. My mum was sexually assaulted in front of us, but we weren't. Most of the degradation for us came from incidents like... So, a neighbouring farmer was doing him a favour and cutting back the hedges in the garden, but someone usually has to walk in front of the cutting machine and make sure there are no big rocks or bits of anything in the grass that might damage the blades on the machine. So, my dad made me (I think I was about 12) and my mum dress in short shorts and a vest, and walk in front of the machine as the farmer was driving it, and told us that that farmer was going to be getting off on watching us. I think the moral of the lesson was that if we behaved like whores we would get treated like whores, but I can't actually remember what it was that had set him off in the first place - usually it was something like that he'd had a bad dream in which we'd done something wrong and annoyed him, because very few times did we ever purposely set a foot wrong. That wasn't one of the worst incidents but it gives you a general idea of what I mean, I guess. Lots of references to us being sluts and whores, pretty much like all these narcissist PUAs and how they view women.

I guess that's why he needed to move out to somewhere where the women are generally more submissive; even when this was happening and I was 12 and cut off from society, I still knew it was wrong and the workings of a madman, so it did little to change my view of him as being a mentalist that I'd eventually escape, rather than securing a place in my head for him being some kind of master or godly figure to be feared and respected, which I think is what he was aiming for, and again, fits so well with how these PUA guys view themselves.

I'm not a total fuck-up, by the way, I managed to escape pretty much mentally unscathed from such a messed-up upbringing, except that I was a bit of an odd, socially insecure teenager. But it has given me an interesting insight into a life that people rarely get to experience (thankfully).

As a child I never attempted to seek help because my dad came across as a smooth talker and I was afraid nobody would believe what he was really like. But here, on the internet, there are entire fucking NESTS of guys exactly like him, little lairs where they go to slap each other on the back and congratulate and encourage each other. It's amazing to see, because they are not hiding away their true personalities, they're just slapping them right out there on the table for everyone to see. You could tell me any one of those guys is my dad and I would believe it.

It's totally mental. But amazing. Look at them all; they're like feral dickheads or something.

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I don't find it fascinating, I just find it depressing and really sad. Actually, it makes me angry too; just makes me want to punch them in their stupid faces. Not that I actually would, but dammit.

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These sites do serve to remind people (like myself) who don't directly experience this level of misogyny in their life, that it is still an active problem.

Glad you emerged relatively unscathed, Yuf. Your dad sounds fucking dreadful.

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The feeling usually invoked in me by These People is confusion. Usually when someone is being an idiot about a subject, like say fundamentalist religious nuts, you can sort of see how they turn out this way (upbringing, e.g.).

But when men come to the conclusion that "women have become too powerful", I just cannot grasp their train of thought. How can anyone look at society and decide that "hey, women are taking over the world"?

It's a scary feeling, someone's mindset being so far removed from my own, when they are my peers in many other ways.

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Thing is with these narcissist types, is that I think whatever the general public believes, whatever the popular opinion on equal rights and respect for all, they will still hate women regardless, because women are one thing that can so easily damage their fragile ego with a simple rejection, one that is upheld by the law - they can't just rape them to take what they want, which is I suspect why so many of them seem to wildly deny that rape actually exists.

It's basically a mental disorder that incorporates misogyny as one of its most key features... They also all seem to be under the impression that other men are either like them, or wish that they were (something my dad thought too... for instance, everyone hits their wife, people only pretend to be normal on the outside. He truly believed it and used it to justify his own behaviour, as do these PUAs I guess, and as do rapists).

So although there is still a lot of misogyny in the world, these little communities are so utterly disconnected from reality that it falls within the realms of insanity more than misogyny, for me. A lot of normal guys will make the odd sexist remark or make presumptions based on gender, as will women with men, but normal guys do not think or do the things that these narcissists do.

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It's all so gnarly, it makes me a sad panda. I don't cope well with sexism, racism, that sort of thing.

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http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-9160.html

"So true. The other day this girl wanted to come over and I told her not to show up without a pizza. She was on my porch and knocked and I looked from my bar perch and said I see no pizza so go home bitch. She ended up leaving then texts me some shit about little ceasars. I said ya know what? You can just fuck off all together. A top notch pizza is 13 dollars and a little ceasars is 5 or so this bitch can plow through 30 dollars in drinks an hour which doesn't bother me but when she has to spend?"

Amazing.

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Ah the internet, giving shelter to the stupidly disturbed on planet Earth.

These people are best left to wallow in their own deluded, screwed up juice. I understand why you sought that kind of thing out (and your Dad sounds very creepy..poor you) but holy shit, they aren't worth the time of day.

People like that cannot be swayed from their way of thinking, they are just too stupid.

EDIT: HaHa! I've just skim read some of the forum posts, they are so hilariously misinformed and blatantly untrue it's clear they are operating at block headed playground bully level at best. If you took away the anonymity of the interwebs, they would shrivel away for sure.

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These are the people who call themselves Alpha males and go around negging women in bars to improve their game. Just typing that sentence makes me feel like I need a shower.

I've actually seen some stuff on the other side of the fence as well, but never in such large numbers.

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I'm not going to read any of these, the posts I can see here are all very upsetting. I absolutely hate it when some guy I know has some bad luck with a women and results to this pick up artist manipulative male shit to deal with their own pain.

Then there's those that have always been that way.

Edited by syntheticgerbil

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You know, it makes me sad because it's either narcissists doing this, or vulnerable and more socially awkward guys who just want to get women and are promised that this will work for them. I think it's important to shed light on this stuff, and to openly ridicule it (because it IS ridiculous), and that way hopefully it will remain primarily a playground for narcissists and not katamari some socially awkward guys along with it.

Also, I know this sort of guy well, because my Dad was one. There are only a few ways to get to them because they are so incredibly deluded. Nobody can talk sense into them, no life experience can shock them back to reality. Narcissists, like my Dad, can often become parodies of themselves; they become so convinced that everyone believes them, that their world of lies and hyperbole becomes an hilarious spectacle. That's why I'm having so much fun reading through the posts of these guys; even the worst ones are hilariously tragic. They just have no idea what they look like to normal people. They think they're so cool, but they're just a total shambles. They rant about how all women are stupid in one thread, and then ask how to shave properly in another.

It's genius.

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I am glad you're at least able to have fun with this and not be weighed down by a bunch of bad experiences at an early age. I get the feeling it messes up a lot of other women to keep having experiences with these types of guys whether it's family, boyfriends, or friends.

I've never had really any lady friends until adulthood but I don't get the need to be scared of women and then try to control them. Women are lots of fun and often much easier to talk too. Then they tend to be easier on the eyes than male friends, too! Wins.

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Pfft, whatever. Women suck! That's why I make my friends wear fake breasts; so I can have something to look at while having actual intelligent conversation! Best of both worlds! Also, totally could use those links on how to shave. Can't have my stunning good looks hidden behind my manly bush.

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So true. The other day this girl wanted to come over and I told her not to show up without a pizza. She was on my porch and knocked and I looked from my bar perch and said I see no pizza so go home bitch. She ended up leaving then texts me some shit about little ceasars. I said ya know what? You can just fuck off all together. A top notch pizza is 13 dollars and a little ceasars is 5 or so this bitch can plow through 30 dollars in drinks an hour which doesn't bother me but when she has to spend?

Jesus Christ, this guy can't even spell "Caesar".

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Jesus Christ, this guy can't even spell "Caesar".

Personally I'm wondering where a 13 dollar pizza is top notch.

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The basic premise of that article is that the Cartmen are angry and demeaning toward heterosexual women because they know or subconsciously feel the women have power over them, their status and sexual gratification.

That makes it even more hilarious.

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Makes sense. A lot of traditional male behaviour seems like it can be traced back to appearances and serving the ego. Ultimately, this apparently mostly comes down to getting and keeping women. We try to look strong and capable and invulnerable both to attract women and to ward away other men who might be interested in them.

Actually, you can apply this more broadly to people in general as well. There's a reason the most visceral and extreme reactions people exhibit are often towards those they're in a relationship with. We say and do things, both good and bad, we would rarely countenance towards others because of the special role a significant other plays in our own sense of self. Fear of loss also often drives actions that actually make one more likely to lose something viewed as important.

I suppose narcissism in this case just changes the scope of these issues. The more narcissistic one is, the more one craves the gratification and fears the loss. So the more important it becomes to maintain the "image", particularly for men, and then the more likely one is to react aggressively to anyone who has the potential to upset that internal and external image of oneself.

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That is really interesting. Attachment amplifies emotional response, but attachment works with ideas as well as people. In the case of narcissists, that suggests a bunch of interesting stuff.

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It wasn't as horrific as you might be thinking, maybe. My mum was sexually assaulted in front of us, but we weren't.

Hang on. This is a whole different ball game. You have a serious problem here. Your dad is supposed to be your role model for men. I fucking hate it when I hear that shit like this happens to people I know. Goddamn.

Sorry about maybe saying shit that was kinda sexist to you when I met you that time.

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