Brannigan

DOTA 2

Recommended Posts

DoTA is an sport, like Football. Is there a magic "GG" button in football? Of course not. YOUR MOVE, POLYGON!

 

There are a lots of levels of "traditional" sports that have some level of mercy rule, even up through college football. They can't forfeit because it's a timed game, but there are rules that cause the game clock to never stop during sets of downs if it gets too far out of hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a lots of levels of sports that have some level of mercy rule, even up through college football. They can't forfeit because it's a timed game, but there are rules that cause the game clock to never stop during sets of downs if it gets too far out of hand.

 

I had never heard of college football having a mercy rule before, had to look it up.  There is no official mercy rule, however in rare blowouts a losing coach can request a continuous clock, which will be granted if both the officials and the opposing coach agree.  Weirdly enough, 2 of the 3 times it has happened, according to Wikipedia, involve teams in the Big 12.  Not surprisingly, my alma mater was on the losing side of one of those games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A reverse NoTideHunter if you will

I was going to say "Kunkka?" but there's a double negative going on and am easily confused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NoTideHunter is the old name for Alliance. Originally a mix of members from different countries. Now full Swedish, with the new name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was the same lineup as Alliance now but Eternal Envy instead of EGM, EE being the captain and the person who created the team. They won Dreamhack and then kicked EE citing the language barrier (EE was the only non-swede). Needless to say when they went on to win TI3 he was pretty pissed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was pretty public that it was more than just wanting the team to be all swedish, Loda basically dropped an ultimatum to ditch EE.

 

 

Ugh it's that guy. That guy wrote the article. I just completely flipped my opinion on the issue. No surrender option ever.

 

I'm trying hard not to hate on his stuff, but I'm generally happier when I don't read/listen to it.  From browsing the article it seems to talk a lot about pro-games, and if that's the case he's making I think it's a weak one.  The biggest problem with people between 100 games won -> 6k MMR is that most of them think they're playing at the professional tier.  They talk shit about heroes or builds that aren't top picks in the main pro-meta, and act like they're too good for their team mates, and generally give up way too early thinking that their entire team is shit and the entire enemy team is better.

 

Of the games I've lost, maybe 1 in 5 is completely unsalvagable.  Those games are often understood to be over by the entire team.  But what's funny is how often hot shot players just completely give up on games that we turn around.  And a lot of come backs aren't even based on a major play, so much as they are based on not making simple mistakes and capitalizing on advantages when they're available.  And even when a bad game tips to truly unwinnable, it hardly ever stays that way for a long time before the match is done.  I don't think it's fair to measure your entire match as a lost cause, even if the enemy team got an early advantage.

 

The fact is, match making will probably keep your win:loss ratio close to 1:1.  Half of your matches you are going to lose.  Just because you lose them, it doesn't mean that they were a waste of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, it's worth pointing out the worst part of TI4 finals were that the games were abandoned so early, but he seems to think it's a great feature everyone should enjoy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact is, match making will probably keep your win:loss ratio close to 1:1. Half of your matches you are going to lose. Just because you lose them, it doesn't mean that they were a waste of time.

This. Some of my best games have been those crazy comebacks, but even a losing game is a chance to try out something new or at least to learn from your mistakes.

The gg rule in pro level play sort of makes sense to "conserve energy" in a 3-5 game scenario but I really only play one or two games at a time. I'm mostly just happy when I don't get somebody else disconnecting/abandoning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, it's worth pointing out the worst part of TI4 finals were that the games were abandoned so early, but he seems to think it's a great feature everyone should enjoy.

The worst part of the TI4 finals was that VG picked the same losing strategy 3 games in a row. If they had played those games to completion they would have been just as boring but longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the inability to surrender increase the stakes of each game? Something I've just begun thinking about, but I think it's worth considering. I implicitly think about it when I start a game, looking at our picks vs. theirs, getting a sinking feeling knowing it's going to be an uphill battle that I'll have to participate in. Those last 10-15 minutes in an low-tier AP game where it takes forever for the other team to take high ground, even though they're 30+ kills ahead and we haven't had map control for the last 20 minutes. I don't think that feeling would be the same if we could GG after the laning phase. I just wouldn't care as much, and queue for another. I wouldn't try as hard to make something out of nothing if I had the option to start over whenever I wanted.

 

EDIT: This has also probably been brought up thousands of times in the course of the "white flag" debate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying hard not to hate on his stuff, but I'm generally happier when I don't read/listen to it.

He's just the worst.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest hole in any GG argument predicated on pro games is that you can already GG out of games in team matchmaking.

 

Ultimately, if a surrender option is introduced, it means that you will start having teammates spending time pleading that the game is "over" and everyone should just gg rather than play on, even in marginal situations.  This happens to a limited degree now, but it would only get worse.  I'll happily sacrifice some time stuck in unwinnable matches to avoid spending even more time in arguments about surrendering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love seeing people regurgitate the same meaningless anti-surrender arguments over and over as if that makes them somehow worthwhile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love seeing people regurgitate the same meaningless anti-surrender arguments over and over as if that makes them somehow worthwhile.

 

You mean the same worthless cries for better games by not playing 80% of them to completion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we try to keep this kind of bullshit in the game client and off these otherwise somewhat civil forums? You're not actually playing dota right now, no need to act like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we try to keep this kind of bullshit in the game client and off these otherwise somewhat civil forums? You're not actually playing dota right now, no need to act like it.

 

No. This means war. 

 

Booooo! Down with Twig and his co-believers!!!!!

lu5fmf6.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did anyone try a favorite hero challenge with the compendium? I picked storm since I already had around 40 games with him but that graph/arrow thing was bad. Constantly telling me I need more money.

 

I finished the 10 wins I needed and now I'm not touching him anymore until they remove that thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can turn it off. 

 

e: Also, yes it was a useless tool. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How can I turn it off? Ok the graph bit yeah, but it still has the 3 up and 3 down arrows showing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we try to keep this kind of bullshit in the game client and off these otherwise somewhat civil forums? You're not actually playing dota right now, no need to act like it.

That's boring. If we're going to reiterate an argument we've had a million times, and the same people are involved every time, why not be stupid about it? You don't have to like it, but much like the surrender option, it's a necessary thing.

 

nj00s has the right idea. Even if he is a dumb butt face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest hole in any GG argument predicated on pro games is that you can already GG out of games in team matchmaking.

 

Ultimately, if a surrender option is introduced, it means that you will start having teammates spending time pleading that the game is "over" and everyone should just gg rather than play on, even in marginal situations.  This happens to a limited degree now, but it would only get worse.  I'll happily sacrifice some time stuck in unwinnable matches to avoid spending even more time in arguments about surrendering.

I argue that people already do this kinda crap, where they afk (but move enough to avoid the abandon status).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moving isn't enough by itself, you need to gain some exp every 5 minutes or you get an abandon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now