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Salka

I just want a new PC, is that so much to ask?

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:frusty:

The reason Windows 7 isn't liking your folders copied straight from your old OS -- and why are you copying your Program Files folder over? (le sigh) -- is because they belong to a different user. And another user (i.e. your current one on your new computer) can't get access to delete the files there... for security reasons. Windows ownership is a bit annoying, it's true, but a better solution would be to give your current user R/W rights to the folder and all subfolders.

Another solution would be to allow Steam to be installed from scratch, and then download all your games again.

OK, I'll research UAC a bit more to find out exactly what it is doing and whether I need it.

I did try to reassign ownership, but it wasn't having it. The whole ownership management system seems pretty badly designed to me. I'll read up about that too, as I do like to understand my OS.

I could just reinstall Steam and all my games from scratch, true, but I used Windows Easy Transfer to save myself a considerable amount of time and because this function claims to be there for this very purpose.

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OK, I'll research UAC a bit more to find out exactly what it is doing and whether I need it.

When you have UAC turned off, every single application you run has complete control over your OS. Every file, every folder, every drive, you registry, your OS, etc. etc. Question is: Why should Firefox have the ability to erase your registry or format your harddrive when you just want it to allow you to go online and check your emails?

Actually, why should any app you run have that ability? 99.999% you're doing user business, not admin business. How many times a week do you need to change your Windows settings? Maybe once or twice, when you're installing some new software... That's it. So why give every application (and I mean every application) complete free reign over your computer?

With UAC turned off, that little handy app that you've installed based on a forum recommendation, but that's been developed by some unknown guy in his bedroom, can do what ever it wants to your computer... You just have to trust that it won't.

With UAC turned on, as soon as any application wants to start changing things on your computer, it has to ask your permission first. Windows detects a call to do something that only an admin should do, and stops it in its tracks.

This does mean that you get an annoying pop-up, asking your permission. But it also means that if you're not expecting the app you're running to suddenly want to change your system settings, you can click "No", and stop it in its tracks.

The only counter-argument to UAC is the fact that people sometimes get complacent and just start clicking "OK" without thinking about it. I personally see this as a problem between the keyboard and chair, though. I certainly don't think it's a good idea to leave your system completely exposed 100% of the time, when that sort of access is only needed 00.001% of the time.

Why your Windows 7 UAC setting should be increased from its default, not decreased:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/the-curious-tale-of-windows-7s-uac.ars

A beginner guide:

http://www.7tutorials.com/uac-why-you-should-never-turn-it-off

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I thought Win7 UAC was broken anyways. Let me see...

Ah, here we are.

That's more myths from bad journos. A Peter Bright points out:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/11/newly-discovered-windows-kernel-flaw-bypasses-uac.ars

The original Code Project post, along with subsequent media coverage, has described the flaw as a "UAC bypass." While technically true, this is missing the point: this flaw works on Windows XP, which has no UAC, and it works even if UAC is disabled. It also allows privilege escalations that UAC doesn't, as it allows attackers to run malicious code with kernel privileges, something that UAC does not do. The flaw has also been described as a potential "nightmare" by some security researchers. This seems unnecessarily alarmist for a flaw that can't be exploited remotely, and isn't that different from many other flaws found already this year.

In other words, all those "UAC Exploit Found" news articles equate to "New Virus Not Stopped By Anti-Virus Software". Does that mean you just go ahead and disable your anti-virus software? Of course not. It just means there's a known hole at the moment, but until that's fixed, the vast majority of exploits are still being stopped.

Just because anti-virus software isn't 100% effective in every single situation doesn't mean that anti-virus software is worthless, and UAC is the same.

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I can see the benefit of UAC as a kind of internal firewall, but it is too heavy handed in restricting my own actions. This makes sense for inexperienced users who don't know that they may be making a mistake, but I'm pretty confident in my sysadmin credentials. With UAC, even when I click "OK, yes, do what I just told you" it then doesn't carry out the action correctly. I consider this a bug.

On your recommendation I will keep UAC on for normal use, but it seems that I need to turn it off for when I do any administrator level stuff to my PC.

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I can see the benefit of UAC as a kind of internal firewall, but it is too heavy handed in restricting my own actions. This makes sense for inexperienced users who don't know that they may be making a mistake, but I'm pretty confident in my sysadmin credentials. With UAC, even when I click "OK, yes, do what I just told you" it then doesn't carry out the action correctly. I consider this a bug.

On your recommendation I will keep UAC on for normal use, but it seems that I need to turn it off for when I do any administrator level stuff to my PC.

Er... Close, but you're not quite there yet. For a start: UAC doesn't "restrict" your actions in any way.

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Er... Close, but you're not quite there yet. For a start: UAC doesn't "restrict" your actions in any way.

And yet apparently it is. As I said, even when clicking "yes" the action is not performed correctly.

Look up the read-only problem if you don't believe me.

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And yet apparently it is. As I said, even when clicking "yes" the action is not performed correctly.

Look up the read-only problem if you don't believe me.

*sigh* (Sorry. It's just a little frustrating to have someone who didn't know what UAC was 30 mins ago start trying to tell me how it works. Lol. I'm sure I've done the same myself, though.)

Check it for yourself: You've got UAC disabled at the moment, yes? So why not try and make the "read-only" change now? Is UAC preventing it from going through?

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*sigh*

You've got UAC disabled at the moment, yes? So why not try and make the "read-only" change now? Is UAC preventing it from going through?

erk :gaming:

I can make the changes fine with UAC turned off. Steam etc is now working. That's what I meant about turning it off for these kind of file operations then switching it back on again for regular use.

(edit: oh I understand. I'm not trying to tell you how it works, I'm just asking you to believe that it is throwing a legitimate problem my way. It's frustrating this end too!)

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erk :gaming:

I can make the changes fine with UAC turned off. Steam is working fine now. That's what I meant about turning it off for these kind of file operations then switching it back on again for regular use.

Steam is working fine because it's running at Administrator level... meaning it's ignoring the permissions on the folder. Try changing the permissions in the way you claim UAC is stopping you -- Even with UAC disabled you'll get the same problem, because it's got nothing to do with UAC, it's just how Windows implements permissions.

Check it for yourself:

First quit Steam, then...

1. Disable UAC. Try making the permissions changes on the folder. Result: See! Even with UAC is disabled, your permission changes won't go through.

2. Enable UAC to FULL WHACK (which is where it should be). Then run Steam as an Administrator. (To do this, go to the Steam icon. Right click > Properties > Compatibility Tab > Tick "Run this program as an administrator" > Click YES to confirm.) Result: Steam works again... even with UAC to to max.

Conclusion: UAC isn't your problem.

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(edit: oh I understand. I'm not trying to tell you how it works, I'm just asking you to believe that it is throwing a legitimate problem my way. It's frustrating this end too!)

No worries. If you can learn more about Windows permissions, you could add yourself to that folder, and then you'll be fine. Maybe ask a question about it at www.SuperUser.com? You might get someone to post a step-by-step guide for you. (It's been too long for me to recall everything you need to do, sadly.)

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Well OK, maybe. So the problem is permissions, not UAC per se. So can I edit permissions in any way? Or am I not allowed to do this on my own system? :shifty:

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Well OK, maybe. So the problem is permissions, not UAC per se. So can I edit permissions in any way? Or am I not allowed to do this on my own system? :shifty:

As I said in my first post, the best solution is for you to fix your Permissions problem. It's just a little fiddly, because it doesn't work quite as intuitively as it should.

If you explain your situation on SuperUser.com, I'm pretty sure you'll get someone who will take the time and show you how to do it.

Edit: Here's how I think you need to do it, from the top of my head:

Right click properties on the folder you moved over. "Security" tab. Click "Advanced". Click "Change Permissions". Click "Add". Type the name of your current User in the white box and click "Check Names". If you don't get an error, click OK. (You can get your current "User" name by clicking on the user icon at the top of the Start menu.)

In the "Allow" column tick: Traverse/Execute, List/Read, Read Attributes, Read Extended Attributes, Read Permissions.

Make sure "Apply these options to Folders, Subfolders, and Files" is at the top.

Click OK.

Edit edit: Post a screenshot of the advanced permissions window when you're done, if you're still having problems afterwards.

That should work... But, like I said, ask on SuperUser.com.

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There are some really horrible problems between UAC and permissions. Just yesterday, I ran into a permissions problem while troubleshooting something on my Dad's PC, and even with permissions set correctly it wouldn't allow a file to be copied. After googling, I found turning UAC off usually helps, but even that didn't work. Ran out of time before I could try repairing the registry or disabling anti-virus, so after an hour or so of fiddling and swearing for what should have been a simple fix, the problem is still unsolved (and UAC back on).

Until yesterday, Windows 7 had done nothing to piss me off. No trying to help but being annoying instead, no nagging. Permissions issues feel exactly like the old days of 2K/XP again though. I'm really grateful for the system that Linux and OS X share instead.

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There are some really horrible problems with UAC and permissions. Just yesterday, I ran into a permissions problem while troubleshooting something on my Dad's PC, and even with permissions set correctly it wouldn't allow a file to be copied. After googling, I found turning UAC off usually helps, but even that didn't work. Ran out of time before I could try repairing the registry, so after an hour or so of fiddling and swearing for what should have been a simple fix, the problem is still unsolved.

Until yesterday, Windows 7 had done nothing to piss me off. No trying to help but being annoying instead, no nagging. Permissions issues feel exactly like the old days of 2K/XP again though. I'm really grateful for the system that Linux and OS X share instead.

Yeah, permissions are a pain. No mistake. It's because Microsoft keeps pushing the Domain Controller stuff that home users never use (and hardly any business users, either). It's not so bad once you understand it, but it's a real pain in the arse to get up to speed on in a few minutes.

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I once studied permissions as part of an NT4 network admin course, though it was a very long time ago and I've forgotten most of it. Also, when it came to individual little bits of the OS the lecturer kept saying stuff like "This is another one of those stupid things that's a bit like voodoo magic. You can bang your head against it for hours and then it may start working for no obvious reason".

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I once studied permissions as part of an NT4 network admin course, though it was a very long time ago and I've forgotten most of it. Also, when it came to individual little bits of the OS the lecturer kept saying stuff like "This is another one of those stupid things that's a bit like voodoo magic. You can bang your head against it for hours and then it may start working for no obvious reason".

Oh, man. That's horrible. I had a moment like that when I was deploying our own web servers. I couldn't get the two machines to see each other. We spent a whole day the facility, and I looked like an idiot. I spent the weekend testing and retesting, not being able to replicate the problem. We went back to the facility on Monday, slotted in the servers, and lo! They worked perfectly.

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I hate computers (I also love them though). Why do Windows PCs rarely re-emerge successfully from sleep mode? Like ever since I can remember, this has been a problem, but one that I've never had with Ubuntu even though it's installed on a laptop that is struggling so hard to keep on living that it gets too hot to touch after about ten minutes, and sometimes sparks come out of the back if you pick it up when it's plugged in... but it always comes out of sleep mode in Ubuntu just fine.

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Hang on a second, am I just being a total idiot or does the sound recorder on Windows 7 not have a playback function?? What kind of total fuckwit designs a piece of recording software with no playback functionality???

I was trying to get my mic and in the process of trying to figure out what was wrong, I tried windows Sound Recorder just to be sure it wasn't a problem with the other program I was using. I had to save the recording and play it back in a different program?!?? And why do folders have loading bars?? It took ten seconds to open Control Panel, ten seconds of staring at a loading bar slowly filling across the top... What on earth is happening that it needs a fucking loading bar for when you open a folder? Am I doing something wrong???

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Hang on a second, am I just being a total idiot or does the sound recorder on Windows 7 not have a playback function?? What kind of total fuckwit designs a piece of recording software with no playback functionality???

I was trying to get my mic and in the process of trying to figure out what was wrong, I tried windows Sound Recorder just to be sure it wasn't a problem with the other program I was using. I had to save the recording and play it back in a different program?!?? And why do folders have loading bars?? It took ten seconds to open Control Panel, ten seconds of staring at a loading bar slowly filling across the top... What on earth is happening that it needs a fucking loading bar for when you open a folder? Am I doing something wrong???

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

but it sounds like you are having a much slower experience than you should be.

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Hehe, as it happens I was using Audacity as my sound recorder, but as the mic wasn't picking anything up I decided to test it in windows Sound Recorder just in case it was a problem with Audacity. Which it wasn't! Yay.

Yeah, the first time I opened a couple of folders it took a lot longer than following times, it seemed. Weird. It's still not the snappiest experience I've ever had, and it still doesn't come out of sleep mode properly most of the time. Bit frustrating. I pretty much know dick all about the finer details of various operating systems, certainly not enough to have the automatic repulsion of Windows that many people do, but it does seem just a tad shite. I use Windows for art and music stuff, which is lots of the time, but when I load into Ubuntu instead I have no problems with sleep mode or anything.

Maybe I should just shut up and find Linux equivalents of all the software I use, and then always load into Ubuntu and just get the fuck on with it, and maybe then I'd swear less too.

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Well, stuff is running now with UAC on full. Which is good. I had trouble getting the security settings to stay changed at first, then I added an "Everyone" identity to Steam folders with the permissions needed and this worked.

Good idea/Bad idea?

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Well, stuff is running now with UAC on full. Which is good. I had trouble getting the security settings to stay changed at first, then I added an "Everyone" identity to Steam folders with the permissions needed and this worked.

Good idea/Bad idea?

It's not the perfectist of perfect solutions, but I reckon you'd be fine with that. Good job! :tup:

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