Tanukitsune

The sneaky stealth game thread.

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Regardless, for all the things i love about the Riddick game, the stealth actually isn't one of them. It can be very finicky and very binary. It was ahead of its time in a lot of ways, introduced a lot of ideas that have trickled down into many other games, but on its own it definitely feels like an evolutionary step.

You mean the game as a whole was ahed of its time or the stealth? If you mean the stealth, in which ways? Didn't do anything really new IMHO.

To me, it was just a surprisingly good license-based game at the time (only topped later by Batman: Arkham Asylum), and I agree that it doesn't age as well as I would expect. I imagine Batman: Arkham Asylum will still be very playable in 10 years.

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You mean the game as a whole was ahed of its time or the stealth? If you mean the stealth, in which ways? Didn't do anything really new IMHO.

Well as a whole, it was definitely ahead of its time. The big one is that it was one of the very first normal mapped games on the market, even before Doom 3. I believe it also pioneered that kind of health system that sort of splits the difference between normal and regenerative ones, something a lot of games have used since then. Certainly these aren't the only firsts in Riddick, but they're a couple that stand out to me for whatever reasons.

As a stealth game too though, i'm not necessarily sure any part of it stands out as being especially original, but it just seemed very modern for a lot of the little touches. I mean, it was the first time i remember dragging a ragdoll body around in a stealth game. Heh.

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Oh, I thought this thread was going to be about Stealth Bastard: Tactical Espionage Arsehole. It's a fun stealth platformer with some sweet pixel art.

Just downloaded and beat this game today, because of this post. Amazing game. Great music! :tup:

I love MGS 1, 2 and 3, and the MSX Metal Gear games too. I still haven't played 4 (although I own a copy).

I really enjoyed the stealth stuff in Metro 2033 for the small touches they put in. I was going through the first one trying to throwing knife everyone to death when a knife bounced off some metal (magazine or armor, don't remember) on an enemy's shirt. Something about the veracity of that blew me away.

I'm tepid on Splinter Cell. I played through the first one this year, and the clunkiness of it turned me off. I also rented it at the time and didn't have a ton of fun. I've played through Double Agent and started Chaos Theory, but I just don't care for them for some reason. I really feel bad since Chaos Theory is lauded as amazing, but I stopped after a couple hours.

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I got fed up with Splinter Cell after a few hours of the first game. I think I need the high (melo)drama and insanity of something like Metal Gear Solid to keep me interested. :tup:

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While I love the story of Metal Gear, Splinter Cell has better tension IMHO, the threat seems more real, Splinter Cell is fiction, while Metal Gear seems like science fiction...

Hackers and bio-chemical warfare vs. mechs with nukes, vampires and a guy possessed by a dead man's arm.

Japanese stealth games don't seem to punish your lack of stealth, which is probably why I was so terrible at non-Japanese stealth games at the beginning, in MG if you get spotted you can easily fight your way out of it, in other games? You stand a chance, but you're likely to die. At least, that's how I remember Metal Gear.

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You must have played a different Metal Gear Solid to me, because they've always been punishingly difficult should you choose to forgo stealth in my experience. In fact, it's only really in MGS4 where it's even practical.

Granted playing MGS on easier modes practically ruins the game, as the AI actually gets better and can see/hear much further with each level of difficulty. I typically replay them all on extreme for the optimal stealth experience, and you can even activate a 'game over if spotted' mode in at least the first few games (assuming you play the much-better IMO GameCube remake of MGS1). :tup:

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Then I guess it was because I played them on easy, but I don't remember them all having easy mode.

I guess I'll have to play Metal Gear 3: Snake Eater on normal when the collection comes out in Europe, and maybe even replay the rest on normal too?

(I can't help to notice I'm going to be playing mostly HD collections this year)

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MGS3 is pretty fuckin' hard (no more radar) so even on normal it should be quite satisfactory, however I personally enjoy the challenge of hard or extreme because precision is pretty vital.

I'd get

for the GC/Wii, then grab the HD collection which has MGS2 and MGS3 — then of course there's MGS4. I'd probably recommend all be played on hard except MGS3 as it bumps up the enemy realism quite a lot. But if you can't be arsed with all that you should definitely try MGS3 as it and MGS4 are a whole different kettle of fish gameplay-wise to the first two.

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Snake Eater is the only one I never played, well that and Twin Snakes, is it really worth looking for? I already have MGS 1 & 2.:erm:

Oddly enough, I think the reason I never bothered with Snake Eater originally was that it sounded like you actually had to have real stealth skills and had low tech or no tech to aid you.

Which reminds me, the HD collection should come with MGS3 Subtance, which means it will come with the original MSX games! :tup:

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It does. :woohoo: MGS2 is the Substance version, MGS3 is the Subsistence version. Which is just well because MGS3 is literally fucked without the free-roaming camera Subsistence added.

Yes, Snake Eater is very much a different breed to the others. MGS4 takes some of it on board — the South America chapter essentially being a homage to Snake Eater — but it really is on its own level stealth-wise. I do consider it the best in the entire series to this day not just because of the gameplay, but also the tighter story and lack of overarching fluff. It's an absolutely fantastic game.

As for Twin Snakes, depends. I personally think MGS1 is so antique-looking I can't immerse myself in it no matter how hard I try, even though I was one of its biggest champions when it came out. Twin Snakes is built to MGS2 standards of graphics (click link above for quick preview) and as such has aged far more acceptably — the only difference between it and the new HD re-releases is the fact it runs at 480p instead of 720p, really. A huge shame it wasn't included in the HD pack, but then Nintendo owns it and that'd mean porting the whole pack to the Wii (lol).

While it's a remarkably faithful remake in that the dialogue and level layouts are identical, it also improves the gameplay IMO by introducing MGS2's additions such as first-person aiming and better enemy AI. Granted the AI doesn't get to perform as well as in MGS2 due to the latter having levels based precisely around it and you do need to bump it up to 'hard' to be challenged, but it does nothing but enhance the gameplay as far as I'm concerned due to the greater realism and use of the environment (lockers, etc).

Other niceties include completely redone cutscenes as per Kojima's request (dialogue remains unchanged though), a new soundtrack, and re-recorded voice acting that sounds better and is more consistent with MGS4. Unlike most remakes the changes are pretty much all for the better, most probably because Kojima insisted on green lighting everything.

Anyone who moans about the rocket kick can get stuffed, though. ;

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The 3D models in Twin Snakes bothered me, though. Something exceptionally weird about Snake's shapes. That and the cut-scenes do get a bit much from time to time. Snake don't just do no side-to-side to get past a doorway undetected, he leaps over it. Over the entire door frame.

8T3JuIDCMy8

Luckily the sound of his jumping and landing was masked by the jet that flew by at that moment.

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Nevermind... it's fetching 80€ on eBay and online stores that still have it stock.

Frankly, I don't mind early 3D games, I'd rather replay the original.

But Metal Gear has got me thinking about retro games that are stealthy, apart from the original Metal Gear what is there? Castle Wolfenstein?:erm:

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So has nobody else actually played any of the Thief games?

You should all at least give Deadly Shadows a shot, the game is still readily available, even on Steam. (That was the third game. It was the only one Looking Glass didn't make, and i think the last game Ion Storm made? It came right after Invisible War, but i think it shows that a lot of lessons were learned from the failure of that game.)

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So has nobody else actually played any of the Thief games?

Have you heard about this game called Grim Fandango? It was released in 1998 by LucasArts *

* sorry, in-joke, assuming someone still remembers

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Oh dear, I feel as though i have been excluded from your internet clique.

Anyways, i believe i get the gist, i am just troubled by the low quantity of Thiefness in this stealth-games thread.

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Anyways, i believe i get the gist, i am just troubled by the low quantity of Thiefness in this stealth-games thread.

They are the best, but I don't think I have anything left to say about them. I've tried to replay them recently (especially Thief Gold, as I think I originally played the non-Gold version), but didn't get to the end again. They are still very playable, though. There are even some really good mods/maps that are worth playing.

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I might get to the one Thief game I own after I'm done with Splinter Cell, either that or Hitman.

Commandos is a Spanish game and a Spaniard, it's kinda my duty to at least own it, not to mention it came out as a special collection that was only available in Spain, and I can't resist a special collection pack. :gaming:

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