Feminism

[Bjorn]

Thank the plaid and denim gods that Blow is here to explain women to us:
 

To me this looks like a projection of a young woman who isn't yet confident in herself, with the usual added discomfort of being in an industry of mostly dudes.

...Thus the whole article could have been written in one sentence: "the game industry is mostly dudes; that makes me uncomfortable."

 

I wonder if Blow has heard of the word patronizing?  Leigh also called him out for this bullshit. 

 

 

Yeah, Leigh Alexander was saying something to the effect of "I don't she's saying that there's a literal dress code" to which he responded "then she shouldn't have said those exact words in the title!" He's arguing with a position that nobody in reality would actually espouse. Also, I don't think it's especially cynical of a writer to say something in a headline that's not literally true that gets people to read the article for greater context. As far as clickbait titles go, that one barely qualifies.

 

Yep, pretty much the entire interaction is Blow saying something stupid, Leigh calling bullshit, and him doubling down on what he said. 

[Problem Machine]

It's weird to me that people whose jobs revolve around complex systemic thinking seem to have such a hard time applying those processes to a sociocultural context

[SuperBiasedMan]

Self criticism is hard for people when it means admitting fault at something serious like social issues. This seems especially true if you do care about social issues and then find something you do being criticised even though your reason for doing it isn't to cause harm. Too many people haven't fully realised the idea that these biases are an inevitable existence that you need to be mindful of and push against by taking in viewpoints of others and listening to what you might be missing. They're not just traits of uncaring or willfully harmful people.

 

I still have trouble not initially responding to things in that way, despite consciously knowing that I make plenty of these mistakes. If someone wont even take the step of consciously acknowledging it then it's hard to really respond fairly and constructively to these criticisms.

[clyde]

And Cliffy B declares himself a Bridge Builder! While saying that perhaps feminists ought to look elsewhere for sexism rather than how people dress in game development.

Leigh calls Cliffy B on his bullshit, so he takes his toys and leaves.

Are you talking about the guy who was the face of the Gears of War franchise or the guy who makes the Democracy series?

[Bjorn]

Are you talking about the guy who was the face of the Gears of War franchise or the guy who makes the Democracy series?

 

Shit, you know what, it is the Democracy guy, my bad.  I only glanced at the twitter handle and misread it for Cliff B's (his full name is Cliff Bleszinski and the Democracy guy's twitter handle is cliffski).

[Deadpan]

This is a pretty misguided conversation, but I still feel like pointing out that the person you're talking about isn't Cliffy B, but another guy with a similar name, as clyde identified.

 

Edit: I was late.

 

The many patterned shirts in my wardrobe probably mean I'm contributing to the trend, hopefully I've at least personally unlearned stuff to the point of taking people in other garb seriously regardless.

[Twig]

Blow has been doing this kind of thing a lot lately, which just means I have begun ignoring him when it comes to anything other than programming, a topic on which I don't necessarily always agree with him, but at least he's not being a patronizing ass.

 

Well, okay, he is, but the subject matter is a lot less sensitive, so I tolerate it more.

[Gormongous]

It's weird to me that people whose jobs revolve around complex systemic thinking seem to have such a hard time applying those processes to a sociocultural context

Self criticism is hard for people when it means admitting fault at something serious like social issues. This seems especially true if you do care about social issues and then find something you do being criticised even though your reason for doing it isn't to cause harm. Too many people haven't fully realised the idea that these biases are an inevitable existence that you need to be mindful of and push against by taking in viewpoints of others and listening to what you might be missing. They're not just traits of uncaring or willfully harmful people.

 

I still have trouble not initially responding to things in that way, despite consciously knowing that I make plenty of these mistakes. If someone wont even take the step of consciously acknowledging it then it's hard to really respond fairly and constructively to these criticisms.

 

I mean, I hate to be reductive, but it feels like Blow would rather shout down feminists than admit his wardrobe is all plaid shirts and jeans. He's got this hugely intellectualized and rationalized framework built on top of that preference, but it still boils down to an incredibly successful game designer prioritizing his own minor comforts over even the possibility of a conversation about the major comforts of others.

[Twig]

Also I conform to the game developer dress code, but to be fair, I've been conforming to that dress code for over a decade, and definitely long before I was a game dev.

 

I am a creature of habit.

[Problem Machine]

I mean the plaid shirts aren't the problem here, they're just a symptom of a homogeneous population of game developers whose mass exerts a gravity-like force of social normalization. I dunno what there is to be done about it beyond acknowledging it and pushing for more diversity, though.

 

Anyway I wear solid-color t-shirts instead of plaid because I don't like patterns so I'm obviously not really part of this problem. I'm sure it'll all work out

[sclpls]

People need to get used to the fact that most writers have no control over what the title of an article is, and it will typically err towards being sensationalist. Obviously people don't have to like that, but it is really kind of dense when someone's argument comes down to disagreeing with the content of the headline if the article is clearly saying something else.

[Gormongous]

I mean the plaid shirts aren't the problem here, they're just a symptom of a homogeneous population of game developers whose mass exerts a gravity-like force of social normalization. I dunno what there is to be done about it beyond acknowledging it and pushing for more diversity, though.

 

Anyway I wear solid-color t-shirts instead of plaid because I don't like patterns so I'm obviously not really part of this problem. I'm sure it'll all work out

 

Nah, I hear you. I was just caught up in imagining Blow's thought process while reacting to the article. "Plaid shirts and jeans are a sign of a lack of diversity in the industry?! But I wear plaid shirts and jeans and I'm certainly not part of the problem. The article must be frivolous bullshit! Look, its title even uses 'dress code' instead of 'informal but still dominant paradigm of dress.' This is why people hate on feminists, for real. I should let them know."

 

People need to get used to the fact that most writers have no control over what the title of an article is, and it will typically err towards being sensationalist. Obviously people don't have to like that, but it is really kind of dense when someone's argument comes down to disagreeing with the content of the headline if the article is clearly saying something else.

 

I think we've also seen that, in the case that an article really catches fire, its title will also probably be misremembered as more sensational than it actually was, so there's sometimes not a point in holding back out of a desire to please concern trolls. See "Gamers Are Dead," even though Alexander's article never even used the word "dead," "death," or "die" in its title or body.

[feelthedarkness]

Also, I don't think it's especially cynical of a writer to say something in a headline that's not literally true that gets people to read the article for greater context. As far as clickbait titles go, that one barely qualifies.

 

The way EVERY headline phrased as a question is meant to be answered "no"

[natellite]

The whole idea of an article title is to get you to read the article. It's not a summary, it's a fishhook. This has been true literally since the beginning of journalism

[Apple Cider]

It's always interesting when men who pride themselves on being critical thinkers can't understand that an article on fashion homogeneity is really about lack of diversity and double standards for non-comformity, presentation and meaning. 

[Deadpan]

People need to get used to the fact that most writers have no control over what the title of an article is, and it will typically err towards being sensationalist. Obviously people don't have to like that, but it is really kind of dense when someone's argument comes down to disagreeing with the content of the headline if the article is clearly saying something else.

 

That would be great. Although at this stage I'd be happy if people at least managed to not blatantly misread the headlines they get upset about, at least, as a certain internet hate mob is wont to do.

[Ninety-Three]

 

People need to get used to the fact that most writers have no control over what the title of an article is

 

Not knowing anything about the sausage-making of journalism, I had no idea that's how it worked. I'm curious as to just how widespread a trend that is, but it proved remarkably difficult to Google, do you know where I might read up on it?

[Gaizokubanou]

I don't quite get the article?  'Dress code' exists everywhere (even outside of industries... people just dress alike to not stand out too much) and if plaided shirt and denim is indeed the average dress code... ehm, I guess this industry is casual Friday mode most of the time?

 

Like I got kicked out of a guitar store cause I was barefoot... I like being barefoot but whatever I guess.

[clyde]

I don't quite get the article? 'Dress code' exists everywhere (even outside of industries... people just dress alike to not stand out too much) and if plaided shirt and denim is indeed the average dress code... ehm, I guess this industry is casual Friday mode most of the time?

Like I got kicked out of a guitar store cause I was barefoot... I like being barefoot but whatever I guess.

I think the idea is that the author noticed that even though the game-development crowd she participates in likes to think that they are open minded and casual, a homogeniety has occurred that has created defacto norms that make people like herself less likely to be expressive. The argument goes that because this has occurred somewhat organically among folks that pride themselves on their own non-chalance, the norms are more difficult to address.

[Gaizokubanou]

I think the idea is that the author noticed that even though the game-development crowd she participates in likes to think that they are open minded and casual, a homogeniety has occurred that has created defacto norms that make people like herself less likely to be expressive. The argument goes that because this has occurred somewhat organically among folks that pride themselves on their own non-chalance, the norms are more difficult to address.

 

I agree that there is this 'same-y-ness' but that's just how any group seem to work, so when the 'same-y-ness' ends up being relatively mild and casual and isn't hostile to difference (not being weirded out, I mean hostility like coughGGcough) I think that's about as good as it gets.

 

So whenever people point out hostility I get that but when it's just people in a group acting alike I'm just bit lost cause I'm not sure what it should be?

[clyde]

I got the impression that the article was just to point out that homegeniety and its social pressures still exist even if they spawn from casual attitudes. Based on the confusion that we've been discussing, I could see this one point being difficult to get peers to acknowledge. I imagine that the article was the author's attempt to make a substantial argument when it has probably been difficult to do so in group conversations with a majority of male peers. I don't think the author was so much trying to change how folks dress as much as she is just trying to get her peers to acknowledge that social norms exist in their culture and that she feels limited by them.

[itsamoose]

From my experience there is a dress code in the industry, but mainly it boils down to don't wear a suit and be clean. Personally I think the reason for all the similar dress is mainly that it's easy and up until reading that article I figured wouldn't put anyone off. This is one of those articles I read and ask, so what is to be done? I'm pretty much the guy she is describing in this article, and I only make those wardrobe choices because they are easy and comfortable, without making me looke like a slob.

[clyde]

[cue makeover montage]

[Gaizokubanou]

I don't think the author was so much trying to change how folks dress as much as she is just trying to get her peers to acknowledge that social norms exist in their culture and that she feels limited by them.

 

In that sense of call of empathy then I can see what it is about.  So not a call for action but for empathy.  Nothing wrong with wearing similar stuff, just asking to understand that non-conformers might feel like odd one out.

 

From my experience there is a dress code in the industry, but mainly it boils down to don't wear a suit and be clean. Personally I think the reason for all the similar dress is mainly that it's easy and up until reading that article I figured wouldn't put anyone off. This is one of those articles I read and ask, so what is to be done? I'm pretty much the guy she is describing in this article, and I only make those wardrobe choices because they are easy and comfortable, without making me looke like a slob.

 

I used to wear suit and carried briefcase to my middle school, loved every bit of attention I got~

[Markson]

I don't think she's necessarily saying that the problem is what everyone is wearing - I think it's that she was singled out every time she dressed differently.

 

Hearing "What's the special occassion?!" every time she wore a dress or something, for example. Sounds like a harmless compliment, but I feel like she was saying that after hearing stuff like that every time she dressed up, she started to feel "different" or "other." So to avoid those feelings, she would follow the "dress code." And when she did, lo and behold, nobody commented on what she was wearing. But like she writes, dressing just to fit in (or in other words, dressing so that attention doesn't get called to how you're dressed) gets tiring too. It's an effacement of identity.

 

Also the bit about how those PR people told her or a friend that they couldn't represent the company on TV because it would look like they were "selling sex." I mean...that's a problem.

 

Edit: What clyde said! That's a really succinct summary!